What has Redwood achieved in the Mccann case ?

[Eleanor]

What has how much The Portuguese spent got to do with what DCI Redwood achieved?

[Alfred R Jones]

I've no right to know anything. I don't mean that - I mean our police aren't transparent even to authorities or Parliament. We discussed the Dando case for a few days and that's a great example of police never having to explain themselves. The Daniel Morgan investigations are further examples.

That's not strictly true is it?  What about the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry? That led to big cultural changes within the police force throughout the country, ref: McPherson Report.

[stephen25000]

1) I don't know how much the Portuguese have spent so I am unable to answer that, very sorry.
2) I don't think it is a waste of money and I think it should continue until all avenues have been thoroughly investigated and a resolution (or a dead end) reached. 
3) Have I answered all your questions now?
4) How much should be spent on missing children investigations - can you please answer my question Stephen?

It has reached a dead end.

The trail is cold.

Nothing has been found.

Now if  you are prepared to spend £10,000,000 plus on all missing children/people, it would bankrupt the economy.

Don't you agree ?


and this case is going nowhere.

Time to pull the plug Alfred, isn't it ?

Or are you prepared for lack of funds that some crimes do't get investigated, which is precisely the case right now ?

[Lyall]

That's not strictly true is it?  What about the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry? That led to big cultural changes within the police force throughout the country, ref: McPherson Report.

Very much a lone example there Alfred, in a particularly controversial and high-profile case. It only happened after years of lobbying, including by national newspapers.

Subsequently in other cases things are just as murky as ever, with the Metropolitan police just as reluctant to cooperate.

[jassi]

One has to wonder why Ms Wall took this on - does she think she can do better?
Is she on a snake or a ladder?

[Alfred R Jones]

It has reached a dead end.

According to you, but I don't accept that you know for certain what is going on with Op Grange

The trail is cold.

As above

Nothing has been found.

As above

Now if  you are prepared to spend £10,000,000 plus on all missing children/people, it would bankrupt the economy.

  How much would you be prepared to spend per missing person then?  Please tell us what figure would be acceptable to you, one that won'tbankrupt the economy - this isn't the first time I've asked you btw.

Don't you agree ?

No I don't agree with you, on any of the above points.

and this case is going nowhere.

That is your opinion.

Time to pull the plug Alfred, isn't it ?

I don't know Stephen, I don't know what stage Op Grange are at, and if they have more leads that need following up.

Or are you prepared for lack of funds that some crimes do't get investigated, which is precisely the case right now ?

Is there evidence that the Madeleine McCann investigation is directly preventing other crimes from being properly investigated?  If so, let's look at the evidence for this here.

[Alfred R Jones]

Very much a lone example there Alfred, in a particularly controversial and high-profile case. It only happened after years of lobbying, including by national newspapers.

Subsequently in other cases things are just as murky as ever, with the Metropolitan police just as reluctant to cooperate.

Then there was Plebgate.  The police didn't come out of that too well IIRC.  There was the De Menezes shooting which could have been covered up but wasn't.  I don't think the Met (or any police force) are angels but I think there is some transparency, maybe not as much as there could be, but certainly not as bad as some police forces worldwide.

[Mr Gray]

It has reached a dead end.

The trail is cold.

Nothing has been found.

Now if  you are prepared to spend £10,000,000 plus on all missing children/people, it would bankrupt the economy.

Don't you agree ?


and this case is going nowhere.

Time to pull the plug Alfred, isn't it ?

Or are you prepared for lack of funds that some crimes do't get investigated, which is precisely the case right now ?

Missing Children.......not teenage runaways and parental disputes....apart from these the number of missing children is tiny...probably less than one per year...

compared to other wasted govt money...Assange.....Afghanistan...Iraq....asylum seeker legal fees...this 10 mill is a drop in the ocean...

[stephen25000]

According to you, but I don't accept that you know for certain what is going on with Op Grange
As above
As above
  How much would you be prepared to spend per missing person then?  Please tell us what figure would be acceptable to you, one that won'tbankrupt the economy - this isn't the first time I've asked you btw.
No I don't agree with you, on any of the above points.

That is your opinion.
I don't know Stephen, I don't know what stage Op Grange are at, and if they have more leads that need following up.
Is there evidence that the Madeleine McCann investigation is directly preventing other crimes from being properly investigated?  If so, let's look at the evidence for this here.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of the points , bar one.

We've been through the rest before and we are never going to agree.

The fact remains, police forces are cutting their numbers.

They do not have the resources to investigate all crimes. FACT.

They give priority to those they think they might solve.

Reports are made on others, with an incident number.

Now, if you don't believe me, ask the Police .

I HAVE.


and lastly, this is not the only circumstance where public money is wasted.

There are numerous other examples.

[Lyall]

Then there was Plebgate.  The police didn't come out of that too well IIRC.  There was the De Menezes shooting which could have been covered up but wasn't.  I don't think the Met (or any police force) are angels but I think there is some transparency, maybe not as much as there could be, but certainly not as bad as some police forces worldwide.

Jan 2015:
Met police hindered inquiry into private eye’s death, says victim’s brother
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/05/metropolitan-police-daniel-morgan-murder-inquiry-obstruct-claims

Labour MP Tom Watson said: “It is extraordinary that a case involving police corruption has taken nearly two years to yield even a single document. Even for the Met it is a remarkable state of affairs. They are clearly refusing to cooperate with an inquiry that is in the public interest and has the authority of the home secretary.”

[Alfred R Jones]

I'm not going to bother with the rest of the points , bar one.

We've been through the rest before and we are never going to agree.

The fact remains, police forces are cutting their numbers.

They do not have the resources to investigate all crimes. FACT.

They give priority to those they think they might solve.

Reports are made on others, with an incident number.

Now, if you don't believe me, ask the Police .

I HAVE.


and lastly, this is not the only circumstance where public money is wasted.

There are numerous other examples.

Imagine your child vanishes off the face of the earth.  How much time, money and resources would you expect the police to devote to finding your missing child?  Let's say a million pounds.  That might fund a search for a couple of weeks. Say the police had uncovered some substantial leads but the million pounds had all been spent. Then what?  Substitute one million with ten million, or any amount of your choosing.  Can you answer this question Stephen?  No you can't.  Why not?  Because in your heart you know this is not about money. 

[Mr Gray]

As I understand this 10 mill has not come out of the police budget but is extra funding

[stephen25000]

Imagine your child vanishes off the face of the earth.  How much time, money and resources would you expect the police to devote to finding your missing child?  Let's say a million pounds.  That might fund a search for a couple of weeks. Say the police had uncovered some substantial leads but the million pounds had all been spent. Then what?  Substitute one million with ten million, or any amount of your choosing.  Can you answer this question Stephen?  No you can't.  Why not?  Because in your heart you know this is not about money.

You do not know what happened to Madeleine, DO YOU.

Why don't you accept the mccanns abdicated their responsibility in taking care of their children ?

Not Amaral, not the PJ, just the mccanns.

AND FIRST AND FOREMOST, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR MADELEINE'S DISAPPEARANCE.

and are you prepared to spend £10,000,000 on every missing person/child in this country ?

[Alfred R Jones]

You do not know what happened to Madeleine, DO YOU.

Why don't you accept the mccanns abdicated their responsibility in taking care of their children ?

Not Amaral, not the PJ, just the mccanns.

AND FIRST AND FOREMOST, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR MADELEINE'S DISAPPEARANCE.

and are you prepared to spend £10,000,000 on every missing person/child in this country ?

  As I said, you can't answer my question about how much is the right amount to spend on looking for your missing child.  I would be prepared for the police to spend whatever it took to find your child Stephen, I wouldn't mind a bit, and if anyone came along and said "it's Stephen's fault that Arthur / Martha is missing and too much money has been spent looking for him / her" I would disagree with them too.  BTW, I don't think it's necessary to spend £10m to try and find every missing person, but I do think there are some missing people who have been sadly neglected by the authorities - but that's not the McCanns' fault. 

[Alice Purjorick]

As I understand this 10 mill has not come out of the police budget but is extra funding

You are quite right. I did post that earlier but the post seems to have suffered at the hands of the aberrant eraser.
Probably because of its irreverence.