Author Topic: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.  (Read 181240 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #645 on: July 05, 2019, 09:37:47 AM »
In the US there has been a similar situation with the acceptance if canine evidence in scent line ups... Leading to many wrongful convictions... This evidence was accepted by many courts before being deemed unreliable... The judges were fooled

The US isn't really relevant when looking at Grime's dogs. When it came to setting national training and assessment standards the UK were ahead of the US. ACPO had set the standards for regional forces to meet.

That's why Stockham needed Grime when he set out to found a canine forensic program for the FBI. One of his aims was to improve the performance and reliability of detector dogs in the US and Grime was the UK expert in training and handling these dogs.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 09:40:15 AM by G-Unit »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #646 on: July 05, 2019, 09:38:36 AM »
That's entirely the wrong ball game.

It's the length of time it would have taken for both Eddie and Keela to alert.

If an incident had occurred in 5A months prior to MBM's disappearance would E&K alert? Yes!

If the incident related to MBM's disappearance, would E&K alert months later? Yes!

If an incident occurred in 5A after MBM's disappearance, would E&K alert to that when deployed?  Yes!

It's the deployment date that is important.

No it isn't... Wrong

If Maddie died in 5a and was removed within 30 to 45 mins there would be no alert
It takes time, fir the odour to develop

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #647 on: July 05, 2019, 09:39:37 AM »
The US isn't really relevant when looking at Grime's dogs. When it came to setting national training and assessment standatds the UK were ahead of the US, ACPO had set the standards for regional forces to meet.

That's why Stockham needed Grime when he set out to found a canine forensic program for the FBI. One of his aims was to improve the performance and reliability of detector dogs in the US and Grime was the UK expert in training and handling these dogs.

Do you have a cite for the UK was, ahead

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #648 on: July 05, 2019, 09:43:32 AM »
No it isn't... Wrong

If Maddie died in 5a and was removed within 30 to 45 mins there would be no alert
It takes time, fir the odour to develop

No it isn't... Wrong.
What's up, old man?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #649 on: July 05, 2019, 09:47:00 AM »
That's entirely the wrong ball game.

It's the length of time it would have taken for both Eddie and Keela to alert.

If an incident had occurred in 5A months prior to MBM's disappearance would E&K alert? Yes!

If the incident related to MBM's disappearance, would E&K alert months later? Yes!

If an incident occurred in 5A after MBM's disappearance, would E&K alert to that when deployed?  Yes!

It's the deployment date that is important.

That's an awful lot of Ifs.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #650 on: July 05, 2019, 09:47:16 AM »
You mentioned the case of Shannon Matthews in one of your posts.  This is what The Nat Policing Agency said in a review of the case which included the use of Victim Recovery Dogs:

"The properties that the dog searched contained a high level of second-hand furniture bought from dwellings where someone had died.  This resulted in numerous indications that required further investigation to confirm whether they were connected to the investigation, or to previous owners of the furniture."

5A didn't belong to the McCann's.  They simply rented if for 7 nights.  How would anyone know the history of the place in terms of materials used in construction, construction workers, fixtures and fittings, furniture and human traffic any of which may have come into contact with a corpse directly or indirectly and then caused the dog to alert?

The only owner occupier in the block was Mrs Fenn situated directly above 5A.  Prior to purchasing her apt at OC she lived elsewhere in Portugal with her husband who suffered Alzheimer's.  Upon his demise she purchased the apt.  Is it possible the dog alerts were connected to Mrs Fenn's apt?

Re the hire car were the control cars like for like ie hired or similar?  If the control cars sustained far fewer drivers/passengers then there's less likelihood of them coming into contact directly or indirectly with a corpse.  For all we know the hire car might have been rented by an undertaker.  What checks if any were carried out on the cars to determine their history?

Afaik the substance thought to be blood as evidenced by the dog alert wasn't visible to the naked eye?  LCN DNA tests were inconclusive.  Therefore it seems to me if the substance was blood the potential sources are many and varied: people cut themselves shaving or on sharp implements, children have bangs and scrapes, women have periods, etc, etc. 

I'm not a McCann supporter just looking at reasonable explanations for the alerts other than something sinister.

Do we know if Mrs Fenn’s husband died in hospital and if so why would she have taken anything he had with him at the time to her new apartment?

I asked you on the ‘smells’ thread but I don’t think you answered. Why did the dog not alert to any of the tapas group’s apartments or belongings ? Each couple included a medic and their apartments were all rentals, facts you think may have been significant.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #651 on: July 05, 2019, 09:50:26 AM »
Do we know if Mrs Fenn’s husband died in hospital and if so why would she have taken anything he had with him at the time to her new apartment?

I asked you on the ‘smells’ thread but I don’t think you answered. Why did the dog not alert to any of the tapas group’s apartments or belongings ? Each couple included a medic and their apartments were all rentals, facts you think may have been significant.

Martin Grime didn't half shift through the other appartments.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #652 on: July 05, 2019, 09:54:44 AM »
Martin Grime didn't half shift through the other appartments.

I’d assume that’s because he saw no change of behaviour from the dogs. Remember that Eddie’s behaviour changed as he entered the apartment.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #653 on: July 05, 2019, 10:02:24 AM »
I’d assume that’s because he saw no change of behaviour from the dogs. Remember that Eddie’s behaviour changed as he entered the apartment.

There's a lot of assuming going on.  Eddie nearly galloped down the path to 5a, before he got anywhere near the front door, and I very much doubt any cadaver odour would travel that far.  I think Eddie knew he was going for his fun game.

Offline Lace

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #654 on: July 05, 2019, 10:04:13 AM »
Martin Grime didn't half shift through the other appartments.

Yes he did.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #655 on: July 05, 2019, 10:05:05 AM »
Do we know if Mrs Fenn’s husband died in hospital and if so why would she have taken anything he had with him at the time to her new apartment?

I've no idea where Mr Fenn died but we can see from the Shannon Matthews case the potential for contamination is significant ie second-hand furniture obtained from dwellings where someone had died.

I asked you on the ‘smells’ thread but I don’t think you answered. Why did the dog not alert to any of the tapas group’s apartments or belongings ? Each couple included a medic and their apartments were all rentals, facts you think may have been significant.

Based on the construction of apartments I think the potential for odours to seep downwards as opposed to sideways might be the answer.  I say this on the basis that I once lived in an apartment and despite being a non-smoker I detected on occasions the smell of cigarettes which I could only put down to the woman who lived below who was a smoker.  I think the smell may have emanated from the plumbing as all doors and windows were closed.  The woman was an every day smoker but I could only detect it very infrequently. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #656 on: July 05, 2019, 10:06:07 AM »
No it isn't... Wrong.

Explain why I'm wrong... Cadaver scent does take time to develop.. If Maddie was, removed there would be no cadaver odour... That makes the time frame around an hour minimum

Offline Lace

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #657 on: July 05, 2019, 10:06:41 AM »
I’d assume that’s because he saw no change of behaviour from the dogs. Remember that Eddie’s behaviour changed as he entered the apartment.

Was 5a the first apartment Eddie searched?    In which case he was eager to start.   The apartment was close up and it was a hot day,  you could tell by the way Eddie was panting that he was hot.   Other families had stayed in 5a after the McCann's so who knows what smells were left from them.IMO

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #658 on: July 05, 2019, 10:07:40 AM »
No ...no truth in the claims re Kate

No.... and that’s an emphatic no.

Thank you. Where did that attending post mortems  with cuddle cat come from, do you know? Was it something Clarence fed to the press?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 10:48:53 AM by Billy Whizz Fan Club »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #659 on: July 05, 2019, 10:13:14 AM »
No.... and that’s an emphatic no.

Thank you. Where did that attending post mittens with cuddle cat come from, do you know? Was it something Clarence fed to the press?

No it wasn't... It was, explained some time ago but unusually the full facts slip my mind