Author Topic: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.  (Read 180993 times)

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Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1095 on: July 06, 2019, 08:00:43 PM »
To deploy Eddie they must have believed that Madeleine had possibly died in the apartment or else why deploy a cadaver dog and if they also believed the tapas narrative, the body could only have lain in situ for less than 90 minutes.

This is a good observation that I had never really given much thought to before.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1096 on: July 06, 2019, 08:07:37 PM »
To deploy Eddie they must have believed that Madeleine had possibly died in the apartment or else why deploy a cadaver dog and if they also believed the tapas narrative, the body could only have lain in situ for less than 90 minutes.
That’s illogical.  If they thought Madeleine died in the apartment they would have to suspect the parents so why would they believe the timeline?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1097 on: July 06, 2019, 08:10:12 PM »
What are these “bizarre lengths” of which you speak?  What bath?  She had a shower then a bath in the same evening?   If falling  is the number one cause of death at home then the internet should be littered with examples of children falling off furniture to their near instant deaths.  In fact it’s a wonder any of us let our kids sit on the sofa so apparently lethal they are if they fall off!

This is not how most doctors would describe their friends children when asked a simple question about how you entered the apartment (if at all);

 she said ah no, I've had such a good, you know such a good day and afternoon err so you know, and Gerry's just obviously finishing off playing tennis and err so you know hopefully try and get them down and as I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn't, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there's, there's you know nothing that normally''

1485 "Yeah.'
 00:38:36 Reply "Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err''

1485 "Try to remember where in, where they were in the apartment.'

Reply "Err, I mean the, the time that I was there err you know all, all of them err all the children and Kate were in the, err as soon as you go through the patio doors err you know they were all in the immediate area you know in front of you, err that was the area that they generally, you know when I saw them, so I didn't, no I didn't go any further into the apartment, you know it was just a conversation that I like, you know walked into the, you know through the French doors, I went into the lounge err you know the open plan area and err you know just had a brief conversation, you know things started off by as I say, saying about the, how well they looked and you know, it's early to get them ready for bed and then I said oh Gerry's, you know just finished over there, we're going over to play a bit of tennis, err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on, and err you know perhaps a bit more of a conversation err but you know it, it wasn't many minutes that I was, was there.'

1485 "Yeah.'
 00:39:55 Reply "But err certainly enough time just to see, you know, certainly the apartment, there was nothing that was untoward, that was you know err the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know Kate, you know or indeed the relationship that Kate had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around. Err so you know it was just a very err transient you know that I'd gone in there, but as I say it just struck me how well they all looked.'

1485 "Yeah.'
 Reply "And content I suppose is the other word to use.'


He's already described the children once earlier in the statement:
 The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little,

IMO that's going some length to say everything was fine - when no-one has even asked him that question.

I've since come across another different version of events in an email sent from LP by DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL:

 To: Ricard Paiva
From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL
Ref: David Payne
Date: October 24, 2007

Leicester Police Constabulary

Ricardo,

As requested, appended are the statements of Arul and Katherina Gaspar.

"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne."
but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.

When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there.

He does not remember what he was wearing that afternoon.

He took part in the searches, having carried out most of them alone. He was at times accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not partake in the searches realized on the 4th of May, because, on this day, he spent to majority of time in the police headquarters.

For many questions, he does not give a complete response, affirming simply that he has already given this information to the Portuguese police in his declarations.

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.

Her responses to the questions are vague. She continued to respond to questions with "they conform with my earlier deposition" or some similar statement.

6 statements from KM, GM, and DP and an email from UK Police reporting on a conversation with DP we have 5 different versions of what happened - and you don't think that needs further investigation? They differ on the time of DP's visit, who was there, how long before he returned to the tennis court, whether he was in the apartment or not and what time GM was playing tennis or was at the apartment..

KM (May 07) Payne visit not mentioned.  Bath at 20:30
GM (May 07) Payne visit not mentioned. No mention of playing tennis at 18:30 but instead says both parents went to the apartment with children at 18:30. Both him and KM had bath at 19:30 to 20:30.
DP (May 07) Does not talk about anything before 20:55 when describing events of May 3rd.
KM (Sept 07) Both her and GM and kids went to apartment at 17:30. GM left at 18:00 to play tennis. she had a shower at 18:30. DP knocked on door but didn't come in (18:30/18:40). 30 second conversion. Gerry came back at 19:00. He maybe had a shower.
DP (Oct 07 - see above) . He last saw MM at 17:00 in 5A. Both GM and KM were there.
DP (April 08) Went to 5A at 18:30. Did go in the apartment. GM not there. Can't remember what KM was wearing. Saw all the kids. Stayed 3-5 minutes.
GM (Sept 07) - Tennis 18:00-19:00. 18:30  had discussion with DP. Asked DP to visit KM.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1098 on: July 06, 2019, 08:16:18 PM »
This is not how most doctors would describe their friends children when asked a simple question about how you entered the apartment (if at all);

 she said ah no, I've had such a good, you know such a good day and afternoon err so you know, and Gerry's just obviously finishing off playing tennis and err so you know hopefully try and get them down and as I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn't, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there's, there's you know nothing that normally''

1485 "Yeah.'
 00:38:36 Reply "Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err''

1485 "Try to remember where in, where they were in the apartment.'

Reply "Err, I mean the, the time that I was there err you know all, all of them err all the children and Kate were in the, err as soon as you go through the patio doors err you know they were all in the immediate area you know in front of you, err that was the area that they generally, you know when I saw them, so I didn't, no I didn't go any further into the apartment, you know it was just a conversation that I like, you know walked into the, you know through the French doors, I went into the lounge err you know the open plan area and err you know just had a brief conversation, you know things started off by as I say, saying about the, how well they looked and you know, it's early to get them ready for bed and then I said oh Gerry's, you know just finished over there, we're going over to play a bit of tennis, err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on, and err you know perhaps a bit more of a conversation err but you know it, it wasn't many minutes that I was, was there.'

1485 "Yeah.'
 00:39:55 Reply "But err certainly enough time just to see, you know, certainly the apartment, there was nothing that was untoward, that was you know err the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know Kate, you know or indeed the relationship that Kate had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around. Err so you know it was just a very err transient you know that I'd gone in there, but as I say it just struck me how well they all looked.'

1485 "Yeah.'
 Reply "And content I suppose is the other word to use.'


He's already described the children once earlier in the statement:
 The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little,

IMO that's going some length to say everything was fine - when no-one has even asked him that question.

I've since come across another different version of events in an email sent from LP by DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL:

 To: Ricard Paiva
From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL
Ref: David Payne
Date: October 24, 2007

Leicester Police Constabulary

Ricardo,

As requested, appended are the statements of Arul and Katherina Gaspar.

"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne."
but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.

When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there.

He does not remember what he was wearing that afternoon.

He took part in the searches, having carried out most of them alone. He was at times accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not partake in the searches realized on the 4th of May, because, on this day, he spent to majority of time in the police headquarters.

For many questions, he does not give a complete response, affirming simply that he has already given this information to the Portuguese police in his declarations.

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.

Her responses to the questions are vague. She continued to respond to questions with "they conform with my earlier deposition" or some similar statement.

6 statements from KM, GM, and DP and an email from UK Police reporting on a conversation with DP we have 5 different versions of what happened - and you don't think that needs further investigation? They differ on the time of DP's visit, who was there, how long before he returned to the tennis court, whether he was in the apartment or not and what time GM was playing tennis or was at the apartment..

KM (May 07) Payne visit not mentioned.  Bath at 20:30
GM (May 07) Payne visit not mentioned. No mention of playing tennis at 18:30 but instead says both parents went to the apartment with children at 18:30. Both him and KM had bath at 19:30 to 20:30.
DP (May 07) Does not talk about anything before 20:55 when describing events of May 3rd.
KM (Sept 07) Both her and GM and kids went to apartment at 17:30. GM left at 18:00 to play tennis. she had a shower at 18:30. DP knocked on door but didn't come in (18:30/18:40). 30 second conversion. Gerry came back at 19:00. He maybe had a shower.
DP (Oct 07 - see above) . He last saw MM at 17:00 in 5A. Both GM and KM were there.
DP (April 08) Went to 5A at 18:30. Did go in the apartment. GM not there. Can't remember what KM was wearing. Saw all the kids. Stayed 3-5 minutes.
GM (Sept 07) - Tennis 18:00-19:00. 18:30  had discussion with DP. Asked DP to visit KM.
How do you know how most doctors would respond to that question?  He was recalling the last time he saw the little girl of close friends.  His description is poignant, emotional, but bizzare?  No, it’s only bizarre if you are convinced he’s some sort of paedo.  As for the differing accounts, I think we can safely rule out collusion don’t you?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1099 on: July 06, 2019, 08:25:51 PM »
That’s illogical.  If they thought Madeleine died in the apartment they would have to suspect the parents so why would they believe the timeline?

The timeline from 17:00 is so contradictory there is not one version to believe!!

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1100 on: July 06, 2019, 08:31:56 PM »
How do you know how most doctors would respond to that question?  He was recalling the last time he saw the little girl of close friends.  His description is poignant, emotional, but bizzare?  No, it’s only bizarre if you are convinced he’s some sort of paedo.  As for the differing accounts, I think we can safely rule out collusion don’t you?

It's not that at all. I have no evidence he is a paedophile.. it's the length he goes to point out nothing bad has happened to them... He wasn't asked that.... Iwork in a hospital and healthcare workers, particularly Doctors report on facts against times and how that relates to people on a daily basis. They often attend court to describe events and sudden deaths etc. They are generally good at recounting timelines. They do it all day long.... Yet here we have four or five versions of what happened from 17:00.... Is that not worthy of investigation?

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1101 on: July 06, 2019, 08:42:31 PM »
Going through all those statements I came across this...

" When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever. He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal."

Didn't I tell you!! Lots of healthcare workers are aware of it's sedative uses for the kids on holiday. It's also used for travel sickness so associated with holidays... and you can look like your lying but truthfully say "we never gave the children sedative drugs" because Phenergan isn't strictly speaking a sedative drug... It's an anti-histamine for hayfever or travel sickness... but any doctor would know it has very effective sedative side effects - especially in children.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1102 on: July 06, 2019, 08:53:13 PM »
Going through all those statements I came across this...

" When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever. He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal."

Didn't I tell you!! Lots of healthcare workers are aware of it's sedative uses for the kids on holiday. It's also used for travel sickness so associated with holidays... and you can look like your lying but truthfully say "we never gave the children sedative drugs" because Phenergan isn't strictly speaking a sedative drug... It's an anti-histamine for hayfever or travel sickness... but any doctor would know it has very effective sedative side effects - especially in children.

This has all been discussed at length... Think what you want... I couldn't be bothered with it all again

Offline jassi

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1103 on: July 06, 2019, 08:57:57 PM »
I have done several times


So you can provide the thread and post number, though no doubt you'll make some feeble excuse not to do so.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1104 on: July 06, 2019, 09:01:07 PM »
It's not that at all. I have no evidence he is a paedophile.. it's the length he goes to point out nothing bad has happened to them... He wasn't asked that.... Iwork in a hospital and healthcare workers, particularly Doctors report on facts against times and how that relates to people on a daily basis. They often attend court to describe events and sudden deaths etc. They are generally good at recounting timelines. They do it all day long.... Yet here we have four or five versions of what happened from 17:00.... Is that not worthy of investigation?
You don’t think it was investigated?  Are the doctors you work with reporting on facts to do with close personal friends and their relatives on a regular basis?  Are they often asked to recount events that happened to them whilst on holiday months earlier?  Are their recollections often being cross referenced with numerous other witnesses recollections?   What do you think differing accounts tells us?  I’m thinking you’d be happier if they all had identical recollections but that’s not real life is it?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1105 on: July 06, 2019, 09:01:34 PM »
This has all been discussed at length... Think what you want... I couldn't be bothered with it all again

None of us can prove anything. So you can think what you want too. Working in a hospital  I’ve heard all about Phenergan use on holiday.. It’s sedative (side) effect is very well known.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1106 on: July 06, 2019, 09:02:40 PM »
None of us can prove anything. So you can think what you want too. Working in a hospital  I’ve heard all about Phenergan use on holiday.. It’s sedative (side) effect is very well known.
Is it illegal?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1107 on: July 06, 2019, 09:04:52 PM »
It's not that at all. I have no evidence he is a paedophile.. it's the length he goes to point out nothing bad has happened to them... He wasn't asked that.... Iwork in a hospital and healthcare workers, particularly Doctors report on facts against times and how that relates to people on a daily basis. They often attend court to describe events and sudden deaths etc. They are generally good at recounting timelines. They do it all day long.... Yet here we have four or five versions of what happened from 17:00.... Is that not worthy of investigation?

Many of the statements may not be accurate due to translation errors as I've pointed out many times

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1108 on: July 06, 2019, 09:14:40 PM »
None of us can prove anything. So you can think what you want too. Working in a hospital  I’ve heard all about Phenergan use on holiday.. It’s sedative (side) effect is very well known.

It's very well known but none of the doctors I know would think of sedating their children... Is it nurses at your hospital who might do it

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #1109 on: July 06, 2019, 09:21:23 PM »
Well I don't know anything about the Zapata case but in MM's case the dogs have not produced anything remotely meaningful let alone anything capable of finding its way to court.
But how close to a confession did the PJ get?  Personally I think (in other words opinion based on much thought) they (the Tapas 9) have confessed to SY as to what happened, and that was why at the 10th anniversary Mark Rowley said "However Madeleine left the apartment" in other words "we know how Madeleine left the apartment".

"We know but we can't tell you since it was a confidential arrangement."  That's my theory or interpretation of what he said.
Then Mark Rowley said "she was abducted"  That is the biggest clue she was abducted - because SY has told us that much.
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