Author Topic: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!  (Read 72145 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2016, 03:42:56 PM »
At no time have I asserted that this 'search specialist' knows nothing, so please drop the assertion and the label of arrogance.  I cannot assert his professional capacity as I know nothing about it, apart from what has appeared in a single TV programme. 

I do not research every ex-whatever who manages to get into the media.  I do some checks on whether what the talking head passes basic tests.

Barclay was in the programme.  Whether it was this programme or another, he is the source of the "undisturbed lichen" myth.  I do not need his CV to tell that he was wrong about this.

Likewise, I do not need the CV of DCI Andy Redwood to know that if he had understood Luz, the June 2014 dig on the mound would never have started.

I asserted the 'search expert' did not know of the PJ checks on bins, and clearly he didn't.  I asserted he did not have a good grasp of Luz, and I stand by that assertion.

Now you are stating that you can access the beach without first getting to the beach.  Getting to the beach is impossible without going through the streets of Luz.  And Luz was open for business.  Your expert seems not to be aware of this.

You are, given that this has been put to you on many an occasion.  So what relevance is an expert who either did not know this, or who knew it and came up with rubbish?

It is known Smithman was seen not far from the beach and is the prime suspect. If it was so busy at that time then where are the other eye witnesses? And I've heard the excuses that he was an innocent father taking his deep sleeping Madeleine lookalike child home. SY would have checked all parents who took children from the night creche and none match. Goncalo Amaral had him as the prime suspect who took her away in 2007 and so do SY so the beach has to be an area of importance when he was heading in that direction. All other possibilities have been investigated and have led nowhere (probably explains the scaling back!) so they are left with that same man - efits produced in 2008 and remained unreleased for 5 years.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2016, 04:01:08 PM »
I think that we mostly agree on that, but IMO, there is more.

In the Cipriano case, he testified that the fact that Leonor wore a black top (in one TV interview, not in others) signified mourning and was therefore a major hint as to guilt - and no one challenged the fact that she was also wearing bright-coloured slacks.

The level of the prosecution in that case would have made PT an international laughing stock.

I doubt that sort of thing ever enters the heads of police forces.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2016, 05:12:12 PM »
I think that we mostly agree on that, but IMO, there is more.

In the Cipriano case, he testified that the fact that Leonor wore a black top (in one TV interview, not in others) signified mourning and was therefore a major hint as to guilt - and no one challenged the fact that she was also wearing bright-coloured slacks.

The level of the prosecution in that case would have made PT an international laughing stock.

You mean like SY in the Barry George case, who completely ignored key witnesses ?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2016, 05:51:28 PM »
It is known Smithman was seen not far from the beach and is the prime suspect. If it was so busy at that time then where are the other eye witnesses? And I've heard the excuses that he was an innocent father taking his deep sleeping Madeleine lookalike child home. SY would have checked all parents who took children from the night creche and none match. Goncalo Amaral had him as the prime suspect who took her away in 2007 and so do SY so the beach has to be an area of importance when he was heading in that direction. All other possibilities have been investigated and have led nowhere (probably explains the scaling back!) so they are left with that same man - efits produced in 2008 and remained unreleased for 5 years.
Actually, very little of this is known.

I haven't checked, but I would guess that a route from 5A to the beach is of similar distance as that of Smithman to the beach.  This tells us only that Luz is not huge, which is correct.

Prime suspect?  Can't remember anyone in OG using the term.  Can you?  I remember as something along the lines of another person to be eliminated from the enquiry, or similar, but not 'prime suspect'.

Other eye witnesses to what?  9 people saw Smithman.  How many more do you want?  You would probably get more if he headed to the beach, due to the cluster of active commercial enterprises and the car park situation.  That you have not suggests that he did not head to the beach, rather than Luz was inactive, which it definitely wasn't on that route.

The only relevance of the night crèche to Smithman is that 8 families with 11 children have been identified by OG.  In the absence of cars (not usual on a week long OC holiday), we should have children walking, being buggied or been carried.  In plain and simple English, a child being carried home from the night crèche is unremarkable.

Hopefully, you do realise that Smithman was outside the 'perimeter' of the OC?  That he neither appears to be coming from the crèche, nor does he appear to be going to an OC property (unless he is seriously lost).  Logically, a check on the night crèche should have checked whether any parent fits the Smithman sighting, purely for elimination.

There is no evidence in the PJ Files WHATSOEVER that makes it likely that he was heading to the beach.  Aoife's testimony goes exactly the other way and makes it highly UNLIKELY that he was heading to the beach, and you are well aware of that.

Look at the Eamon Holmes interview of Paul Luckman, which included a discussion at the Smithman sighting point in 2011 with Amaral.  According to Luckman, Amaral indicated that he thought the man had NOT headed in the direction of the beach.  Rather Amaral indicated that the man had gone down the way the Smiths had just come up.

There is no point in using Amaral as a reference in this.  Aoife´s statement is crystal clear, after seeing a man fleetingly, she does not know whether he then headed to the beach, or simply went down the street she had just come up.  While her evidence is inconsistent with a man heading to the beach, it is consistent with a man heading down towards the Dolphin  This remains an unturned stone, something that should be looked at further.

If the man headed down the street, rather than to the beach, he is going into an area of Luz that was still open, but quieter.  That happens to be consistent with no further sightings, but hardly constitutes proof for many a reason

We don't know if all other avenues have been exhausted.  We certainly DO know that OG is pursuing focussed lines of enquiry, not just a single line of enquiry.  Therefore we do NOT know that Smithman is the only option.

Of the 4 men made arguidos in July 2014, only 1 appears to have been informed he is no longer of interest.  The status of the other 3 is unknown.  None of these was connected to the case by Smithman.

Can we have a pinch of accuracy, and somewhat less pushing of information that may well suit your theorem but is inaccurate?  There are people reading the forum who are not well informed on the case and who can be led astray by assertions of facts that are not valid.

Luz was not closed.  Smithman is not known to have been heading to the beach.  The esplanade had open, active establishments, and you can check the lighting  for yourself.  The Files contain numerous references to searches of the beach.  From memory, Harrison ruled out the use of the beach, but thought the rocks at the East end were worth a look.  Which suggests that his understanding of the activity in Luz that night was less than perfect.
What's up, old man?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2016, 05:53:22 PM »
Smithman is prime suspect. Oh I forgot to add that Kelly's bar was heaving that night being so busy and that as receipts prove NOT.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2016, 06:12:04 PM »
Smithman is prime suspect. Oh I forgot to add that Kelly's bar was heaving that night being so busy and that as receipts prove NOT.
If you wish to discuss your theorem, may I kindly suggest you do so in the thread in the area reserved for it, rather than hijacking a thread that has nothing to do with it.

Kelly's was quiet and there is a reason why it was so quiet.  That reason ties in with first the Smiths visiting Kelly's, and is the most probable explanation for the Smith sighting.

Not all of the information is in the PJ Files.  You have to rootle about elsewhere, but all of the information you need to kick this off is contained in the PJ Files, as long as you have a knowledge of how Luz works, which you appear to be lacking.
What's up, old man?

Offline Carana

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2016, 03:35:50 PM »
Regarding the title of the thread, at the time Amaral was taken off he was still hunting for an elusive fridge...

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2016, 03:44:45 PM »
Amaral was after the right man seen by the Smiths so it's suspicious why he was taken off and the next guy discarded that lead.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2016, 03:52:32 PM »
Amaral was after the right man seen by the Smiths so it's suspicious why he was taken off and the next guy discarded that lead.

I'm not aware that Rebelo discarded Smithman. Where do you get that from?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2016, 07:43:42 PM »
I'm not aware that Rebelo discarded Smithman. Where do you get that from?

Did Rebelo meet with the Smiths and follow up that lead? I know someone wrote a begging letter to him after enemy number one left the case.

"I would be grateful if you were able to keep us informed to some degree as to how the investigation is going."
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2016, 07:54:54 PM »
Did Rebelo meet with the Smiths and follow up that lead? I know someone wrote a begging letter to him after enemy number one left the case.

"I would be grateful if you were able to keep us informed to some degree as to how the investigation is going."

You missed the last part of the sentence ... I've highlighted it for you.

I would imagine that it would have taken little to allow the parents of a missing child some information as far as was possible ~ it is disappointing that you cast innuendo while ignoring the desperation for information the parents of a missing child must suffer.

4th December 2007
Dear Mr Rebelo,

I hope you do not mind me writing to you and that you will read my letter. I am Madeleine McCann's mother.
I am not sure if you are a parent or not, but for my husband and myself, and the whole of our family, the last seven months has been the most difficult, sad and unbearable time that any parent could possibly imagine. Madeleine is the most precious thing in our life.

As her mother, the pain and anxiety I feel for her is indescribable and the feeling of helplessness overwhelming. The 'accusations' and media smearing, although upsetting, are very much secondary.

I am appealing to you as a fellow human being to work with us (if possible include us) and to remember that we are Madeleine's parents and have needs.

With regard to this latter point, I would be grateful if you were able to keep us informed to some degree as to how the investigation is going - what work is being done to help find our daughter etc.

I'm sure you will agree that this request is not unreasonable and is in fact humane.

I am fairly familiar now with the workings of 'judicial secrecy' but even if we could have a little bit of information in the broadest of terms it would help.

Lack of communication and a void of information, particularly as the parent of a missing child, is torture. We will continue to work with the PJ (and are keen to do so as soon as possible!) as we have done since that moment when I discovered that Madeleine had been taken.

This shouldn't be about 'finger-pointing blame', nor should it be about differences in culture. It should be about a beautiful, innocent little girl who is still missing. She is the victim in all of this.

It would be good for Madeleine if we could all work together to help find her and the person(s) who took her.

I would be very grateful if you could give some thought and consideration to my letter and look forward to your reply. I can only ask.
Yours sincerely,
Kate McCann.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2016, 08:00:45 PM »
You missed the last part of the sentence ... I've highlighted it for you.

I would imagine that it would have taken little to allow the parents of a missing child some information as far as was possible ~ it is disappointing that you cast innuendo while ignoring the desperation for information the parents of a missing child must suffer.

4th December 2007
Dear Mr Rebelo,

I hope you do not mind me writing to you and that you will read my letter. I am Madeleine McCann's mother.
I am not sure if you are a parent or not, but for my husband and myself, and the whole of our family, the last seven months has been the most difficult, sad and unbearable time that any parent could possibly imagine. Madeleine is the most precious thing in our life.

As her mother, the pain and anxiety I feel for her is indescribable and the feeling of helplessness overwhelming. The 'accusations' and media smearing, although upsetting, are very much secondary.

I am appealing to you as a fellow human being to work with us (if possible include us) and to remember that we are Madeleine's parents and have needs.

With regard to this latter point, I would be grateful if you were able to keep us informed to some degree as to how the investigation is going - what work is being done to help find our daughter etc.

I'm sure you will agree that this request is not unreasonable and is in fact humane.

I am fairly familiar now with the workings of 'judicial secrecy' but even if we could have a little bit of information in the broadest of terms it would help.

Lack of communication and a void of information, particularly as the parent of a missing child, is torture. We will continue to work with the PJ (and are keen to do so as soon as possible!) as we have done since that moment when I discovered that Madeleine had been taken.

This shouldn't be about 'finger-pointing blame', nor should it be about differences in culture. It should be about a beautiful, innocent little girl who is still missing. She is the victim in all of this.

It would be good for Madeleine if we could all work together to help find her and the person(s) who took her.

I would be very grateful if you could give some thought and consideration to my letter and look forward to your reply. I can only ask.
Yours sincerely,
Kate McCann.

.......'Madeleine is the most precious thing in our life.'

Really ??

So that's why she and her husband went out drinking and eating, and left her and her siblings by themselves.

If you are going to copy and paste mccann propaganda, expect the truth to be typed as a response.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2016, 08:04:33 PM »
You missed the last part of the sentence ... I've highlighted it for you.

I would imagine that it would have taken little to allow the parents of a missing child some information as far as was possible ~ it is disappointing that you cast innuendo while ignoring the desperation for information the parents of a missing child must suffer.

4th December 2007
Dear Mr Rebelo,

I hope you do not mind me writing to you and that you will read my letter. I am Madeleine McCann's mother.
I am not sure if you are a parent or not, but for my husband and myself, and the whole of our family, the last seven months has been the most difficult, sad and unbearable time that any parent could possibly imagine. Madeleine is the most precious thing in our life.

As her mother, the pain and anxiety I feel for her is indescribable and the feeling of helplessness overwhelming. The 'accusations' and media smearing, although upsetting, are very much secondary.

I am appealing to you as a fellow human being to work with us (if possible include us) and to remember that we are Madeleine's parents and have needs.

With regard to this latter point, I would be grateful if you were able to keep us informed to some degree as to how the investigation is going - what work is being done to help find our daughter etc.

I'm sure you will agree that this request is not unreasonable and is in fact humane.

I am fairly familiar now with the workings of 'judicial secrecy' but even if we could have a little bit of information in the broadest of terms it would help.

Lack of communication and a void of information, particularly as the parent of a missing child, is torture. We will continue to work with the PJ (and are keen to do so as soon as possible!) as we have done since that moment when I discovered that Madeleine had been taken.

This shouldn't be about 'finger-pointing blame', nor should it be about differences in culture. It should be about a beautiful, innocent little girl who is still missing. She is the victim in all of this.

It would be good for Madeleine if we could all work together to help find her and the person(s) who took her.

I would be very grateful if you could give some thought and consideration to my letter and look forward to your reply. I can only ask.
Yours sincerely,
Kate McCann.

They were suspects in her disappearance and she wants to be updated on the investigation. Really? She must have been in fantasy luzland for too long  @)(++(*
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2016, 08:47:35 PM »
They were suspects in her disappearance and she wants to be updated on the investigation. Really? She must have been in fantasy luzland for too long  @)(++(*
She was the mother of a missing child - shame on her for wanting to know what was happening in the investigation into her disappearance.  I know it's difficult for you but just for once consider that Kate McCann genuinely has no idea where her child is, can you do that or am I asking the impossible?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2016, 09:00:41 PM »
She was the mother of a missing child - shame on her for wanting to know what was happening in the investigation into her disappearance.  I know it's difficult for you but just for once consider that Kate McCann genuinely has no idea where her child is, can you do that or am I asking the impossible?

...and what if she does know? Can the police take the chance on keeping a possible suspect informed (forewarned)?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.