Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!

[Alfred R Jones]

This may put it in better perspective:
>>>>>>snip However, there was a glimmer of hope. A recent storm damaged trees in Olson-Triplett's neighborhood and the truck that picked up her trash also picked up branches. Because of the extra pick ups, the truck ran behind schedule and by the time it arrived at the landfill, the landfill was closed. The truck hadn't been dumped yet.

Wednesday morning, Olson-Triplett and her husband rushed to the landfill and met the refuse workers who were preparing to dump nearly five tons of trash off the truck. Olson-Triplett kept her eyes open for her distinctive garbage bags: white with black ties. She said the moment she saw the bags, she started screaming. She said: "I knew those were our trash bags."

There were three bags in total. The first was nothing but trash. However, as soon as Olson-Triplett opened the second bag, her wedding ring fell to the ground. She fell on her knees and cried tears of joy. Now, whenever she looks at her ring, she will remember to always believe in miracles. She said: "This is a symbol miracles happen. Don't ever give up faith. No matter what, don't ever give up faith." <<<<<<< snip

What was the point of that?  Completely off topic.  My point was that the woman went to the landfill to look for her ring, she didn't know in advance that the dump trucks hadn't dumped, she still went.  I can post numerous links to police searches of landfills, some of which turned up dead bodies some of which didn't.  What sort of police force says to itself "there's no point looking there, we'll never find it"? A defeatist and / or lazy police force that's what sort!

[ShiningInLuz]

So how many tons of rubbish get dumped at the local landfill each day?  As much as 1600 tons maybe, as in this landfill?http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Lost-Wedding-Ring-Tossed-Out-With-Trash---Found-Day-Later-At-Landfill-326808241.html   
It didn't stop the woman who lost her ring going to the landfill site to search for it, she had a lucky break too, whose to say the police wouldn't have had similar success, seeing as how dumping bodies in bins is apparently a not uncommon method of body disposal. And think how quickly they'd have found it had they deployed dogs such as the marvellous Eddie!  It would have taken him mere minutes, if not seconds.

Please consider sending your CV to Disney.  I think you have the type of imagination they might welcome.

Let's consider the facts. Fact, they didn't have a dog like Eddie, otherwise what was the point of shifting Eddie from the UK to Portugal?

Given the amount of dead pig in landfill, is there any reason whatsoever to think Eddie would have found a body?

However, you seem to be suggesting that, as Madeleine is worth more than a wedding ring, the McCanns should have sprinted to our landfill site to check this angle out.  Positively remiss of them not to do so.

[Eleanor]

Please consider sending your CV to Disney.  I think you have the type of imagination they might welcome.

Let's consider the facts. Fact, they didn't have a dog like Eddie, otherwise what was the point of shifting Eddie from the UK to Portugal?

Given the amount of dead pig in landfill, is there any reason whatsoever to think Eddie would have found a body?

However, you seem to be suggesting that, as Madeleine is worth more than a wedding ring, the McCanns should have sprinted to our landfill site to check this angle out.  Positively remiss of them not to do so.

Alfred was suggesting that The Police should have done this.

[Alfred R Jones]

Please consider sending your CV to Disney.  I think you have the type of imagination they might welcome.

Let's consider the facts. Fact, they didn't have a dog like Eddie, otherwise what was the point of shifting Eddie from the UK to Portugal?

Given the amount of dead pig in landfill, is there any reason whatsoever to think Eddie would have found a body?

However, you seem to be suggesting that, as Madeleine is worth more than a wedding ring, the McCanns should have sprinted to our landfill site to check this angle out.  Positively remiss of them not to do so.

Christ.  Where to begin with this diatribe?!
1) Your insult re: Disney and my imagination is noted, many thanks for that.
2) If they didn't have a dog what was preventing them from getting a dog?  Why does Portugal not have a single cadaver dog?  No bodies to find? any old dog can find a dead body, it's no biggie.
3) Why are dead pigs sent to landfill?  I thought pigs were used for turning into food, and that once they had been turned into food super Eddie dogs didn't alert to them, or is that wrong?  So Portuguese landfills are full of dead pigs, well you learn something every day.  Maybe that explains why if the abductor worked at the local landfill the apartment reeked of pig cadaver and the dog alerted.
4) I suggest you google "body found at landfill".  There are dozens of examples.  There is no excuse for the police NOT to have pursued this line of enquiry, so stop making excuses for them, it's a bit sad.
5) are you seriously suggesting that the parents of a missing child scrabble about at the local landfill site in the hope of uncovering the corpse of their dead child?  Would that have been the recommended course of action by the police and the local landfill workers?  Would it be the kind of experience you'd be prepared to subject yourself to?
Your post has absolutely astonished me.  I thought you were vaguely reasonable, but wow....

[ShiningInLuz]

Alfred was suggesting that The Police should have done this.

He was, I believe.  I simply pointed out that the equivalent involves the McCanns worrying about this, which Kate's book says was a concern, and not taking the same action as someone worried about something much less valuable.

His viewpoint falls into the category of 'experts' who insist all 188 bins should have been tipped out and searched.  And every coffin in Luz undergoing cremation should have been searched for an extra body.  We have also been through the ideas that Luz should have been sealed off, and the borders of Portugal should have been sealed off.

Now has been added that a dog the Portuguese didn't have should have been deployed.  And instead of focussing on getting information at the incident scene, the officers should have instead been at the landfill site.

All of this when I have made it perfectly clear that what was going into landfill was already being checked in considerable detail.

This reminds me of the way that tabloids report the case.  Reality is not permitted to interfere with imagination.

[Alice Purjorick]

What was the point of that? Completely off topic.  My point was that the woman went to the landfill to look for her ring, she didn't know in advance that the dump trucks hadn't dumped, she still went.  I can post numerous links to police searches of landfills, some of which turned up dead bodies some of which didn't.  What sort of police force says to itself "there's no point looking there, we'll never find it"? A defeatist and / or lazy police force that's what sort!

I am only quoting from the link you posted.
So your link was off topic?
Why post the link in the first place then?

[Alfred R Jones]

He was, I believe.  I simply pointed out that the equivalent involves the McCanns worrying about this, which Kate's book says was a concern, and not taking the same action as someone worried about something much less valuable.

His viewpoint falls into the category of 'experts' who insist all 188 bins should have been tipped out and searched.  And every coffin in Luz undergoing cremation should have been searched for an extra body.  We have also been through the ideas that Luz should have been sealed off, and the borders of Portugal should have been sealed off.

Now has been added that a dog the Portuguese didn't have should have been deployed.  And instead of focussing on getting information at the incident scene, the officers should have instead been at the landfill site.

All of this when I have made it perfectly clear that what was going into landfill was already being checked in considerable detail.

This reminds me of the way that tabloids report the case.  Reality is not permitted to interfere with imagination.

So in your view the police were quite within their rights not to bother searching landfill for. body because it would have been too hard?   What do you make of British police's month long efforts to find the remains of April Jones over a much larger and more challenging terrain than a confined landfill site?  were they wrong to put in the time and effort?  Same with Alice Gross - weeks of searching canal and towpath, eventually resulting in the discovery of her body, ridiculous waste of manpower?  Why shouldn't the Portuguese police have expended the same amount of energy looking for Madeleine's body?  Was it because she wasn't Portuguese?  Or what?

[Alfred R Jones]

I am only quoting from the link you posted.
So your link was off topic?
Why post the link in the first place then?

No, my link wasn't off topic, it provided the source material for my on-topic post, kimdly desist from trolling my posts again (yes, that probably cost me 10 points, but never mind, eh?)

[ShiningInLuz]

Christ.  Where to begin with this diatribe?!
1) Your insult re: Disney and my imagination is noted, many thanks for that.
2) If they didn't have a dog what was preventing them from getting a dog?  Why does Portugal not have a single cadaver dog?  No bodies to find? any old dog can find a dead body, it's no biggie.
3) Why are dead pigs sent to landfill?  I thought pigs were used for turning into food, and that once they had been turned into food super Eddie dogs didn't alert to them, or is that wrong?  So Portuguese landfills are full of dead pigs, well you learn something every day.  Maybe that explains why if the abductor worked at the local landfill the apartment reeked of pig cadaver and the dog alerted.
4) I suggest you google "body found at landfill".  There are dozens of examples.  There is no excuse for the police NOT to have pursued this line of enquiry, so stop making excuses for them, it's a bit sad.
5) are you seriously suggesting that the parents of a missing child scrabble about at the local landfill site in the hope of uncovering the corpse of their dead child?  Would that have been the recommended course of action by the police and the local landfill workers?  Would it be the kind of experience you'd be prepared to subject yourself to?
Your post has absolutely astonished me.  I thought you were vaguely reasonable, but wow....

Where to begin re this diatribe.

What on Earth makes you think they had an Eddie type dog and did NOT deploy it? That idea defines crazy.

If you think there is no uneaten, dead pig going into landfill, you need to check almost any rubbish bin.

If you can show any evidence WHATSOEVER that the police was aware of how rubbish was processed on the Algarve, then cite it.  I have shown that it is quite difficult to find out how the rubbish is processed.  So it is over to you to show HOW the police would have implemented this response.  Simply asserting it should have been done is hot air, nothing more.

You used the parents at landfill example as support for your argument.  I am not suggesting the parents should have been at the landfill site for exactly the same reason that applies to the police.  They would not have been aware of it.  If you choose to bash the PJ over this, you are, whether you like it or not, bashing the McCanns.  I prefer to bash neither.

I am a lot more reasonable than vaguely, thank you.  I sit in a world where every armchair expert appears to feel free to denigrate what happened in my neck of the woods, without any reality check.

[ShiningInLuz]

So in your view the police were quite within their rights not to bother searching landfill for. body because it would have been too hard?   What do you make of British police's month long efforts to find the remains of April Jones over a much larger and more challenging terrain than a confined landfill site?  were they wrong to put in the time and effort?  Same with Alice Gross - weeks of searching canal and towpath, eventually resulting in the discovery of her body, ridiculous waste of manpower?  Why shouldn't the Portuguese police have expended the same amount of energy looking for Madeleine's body?  Was it because she wasn't Portuguese?  Or what?

This bears no relation to what I said.  At no time did I say police were within the rights because it was too hard.  I said I have no reason to believe the police actually knew what happened to the rubbish after pick-up.

If you have ANY evidence they did, then cite it.

I have no interest or knowledge of April Jones or Alice Gross, therefore I have no interest in doing case comparisons.  Instead, I will do a simple resource comparison.  On a population basis, the UK is about 6 times larger than Portugal, so it should be able to expend about 6 times, on average, what the Portuguese can put in.  To expect otherwise is the same as expecting - Portugal should have had an Eddie type dog, Portugal should have had a DNA database, Portugal should have had a CSI manual.  It didn't have any of these, consequently anyone requiring these is out of touch with reality.

I don't know the total manpower or cost that has now been expended by Portugal in the search for Madeleine. But between the original investigation, the Oporto investigation, and support for Operation Grange, the Portuguese taxpayers, at a time when the country is in severe financial crisis, have forked out a large sum, significantly larger than has been expended on any single Portuguese child.

[Alfred R Jones]

Where to begin re this diatribe.

Let's begin at the beginning.

What on Earth makes you think they had an Eddie type dog and did NOT deploy it? That idea defines crazy.

I did not say that - please re-read.  I asked why DON'T they have VRDs?  Is there no call for them in Portugal?  I fully accept that no such beast resided in Portugal in 2007 but if the authorities were able to call upon the services of Eddie the Wonder Dog in August, then why not in May?  Even if it was not such the wonderful, infallible specimen as Eddie, a second-rate VRD would have been better than nowt surely?

If you think there is no uneaten, dead pig going into landfill, you need to check almost any rubbish bin.

Again you appear to have completely misunderstood my post.  There is a difference (or so I've been led to believe) between a dead pig and pork and pig based food products.  The super dog will alert to the former but not the latter.  That being the case, if the landfill was filled with pig carcasses then, yes very confusing for the dog, however if it is filled with discarded ham sandwiches, then it's no problem whatsoever for the super sniffer.  Right?  Or wrong?

If you can show any evidence WHATSOEVER that the police was aware of how rubbish was processed on the Algarve, then cite it.  I have shown that it is quite difficult to find out how the rubbish is processed.  So it is over to you to show HOW the police would have implemented this response.  Simply asserting it should have been done is hot air, nothing more.

This is absurd logic.  Why do I have to cite evidence of what the police did or did not know about rubbish processing in the Algarve in 2007? It's completely beside the point.  In any case I thought police investigators were supposed to find stuff out about stuff, and if they didn't know something that may be relevant that they damn well did their best to find out about it.  So, they knew nothing about rubbish processing and for that reason we must excuse them for not pursuing this line of enquiry?  are you SERIOUS??!  You think the police were perfectly justified in not searching rubbish tips because they didn't know about rubbish processing - REALLY??!

You used the parents at landfill example as support for your argument.  I am not suggesting the parents should have been at the landfill site for exactly the same reason that applies to the police.  They would not have been aware of it.  If you choose to bash the PJ over this, you are, whether you like it or not, bashing the McCanns.  I prefer to bash neither

.Harking back to my answer above, I can see no reason whatsoever why the police shouldn't have considered the fact that Madeleine's body may have ended up at the local landfill.  As I have said before, it's not unheard of - there are dozens of examples - a baby found in a bag being just one of many examples.  I simply don't understand your passionate defence of the PJ on this matter- is this a personal thing for you?

I am a lot more reasonable than vaguely, thank you.  I sit in a world where every armchair expert appears to feel free to denigrate what happened in my neck of the woods, without any reality check.

  Just because you live there doesn't mean that your opinions and thought processes on this matter are better informed and superior to mine.  Just saying like...

[Carana]

This is getting a bit heated.

I actually agree with some points from both SIL and Alfie. 

[Eleanor]

This is getting a bit heated.

I actually agree with some points from both SIL and Alfie. 

Agreed.  Let's cool it a bit, please.

[pathfinder73]

Where to begin re this diatribe.

What on Earth makes you think they had an Eddie type dog and did NOT deploy it? That idea defines crazy.

If you think there is no uneaten, dead pig going into landfill, you need to check almost any rubbish bin.

If you can show any evidence WHATSOEVER that the police was aware of how rubbish was processed on the Algarve, then cite it.  I have shown that it is quite difficult to find out how the rubbish is processed.  So it is over to you to show HOW the police would have implemented this response.  Simply asserting it should have been done is hot air, nothing more.

You used the parents at landfill example as support for your argument.  I am not suggesting the parents should have been at the landfill site for exactly the same reason that applies to the police.  They would not have been aware of it.  If you choose to bash the PJ over this, you are, whether you like it or not, bashing the McCanns.  I prefer to bash neither.

I am a lot more reasonable than vaguely, thank you.  I sit in a world where every armchair expert appears to feel free to denigrate what happened in my neck of the woods, without any reality check.

Eddie doesn't alert to household pork waste in bins. And what's so peculiar about not letting 188 bins leave without first being properly emptied and checked. If she was murdered and hidden in a bin then at least you can rule that out from the start and not talk about the possibility years later.

[Alfred R Jones]

This is getting a bit heated.

I actually agree with some points from both SIL and Alfie. 

That's fine.  It helps though if one is not accused of having an imagination worthy of Disney or that my ideas are "crazy".  Nothing I haver written is remotely fantastical, but all 100% grounded in reality.   What I still do not comprehend is why we should apparently be complacent about the Portuguese Police's obvious failings.  It is blatantly obvious that they did not put very much effort into finding Madeleine or her body in the weeks after her disappearance.  Excuses like "how were the police supposed to know how landfill waste processing worked" are lame to say the very least.