Wandering Off Topic

[Vertigo Swirl]

I work in critical care. I have done for over 30 years. I can assure you that children falling off furniture or window sills is not uncommon.

No one has claimed otherwise, the salient issue is instant or near instant death, still no examples despite hundreds of thousands of children falling in domestic settings in the last 14 years.

[Mr Gray]

I work in critical care. I have done for over 30 years. I can assure you that children falling off furniture or window sills is not uncommon.

We know falling is not uncommon... But dying in a domestic fall quickly it seems is unheard of.

[G-Unit]

Unintentional injuries are one of the main causes of premature death and illness for children in England. Every year in England, 60 children under the age of five die from injuries in and around the home, which is one in twelve of all deaths of children aged one to four.
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2017/02/28/preventing-accidents-in-children-under-five/

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

We know falling is not uncommon... But dying in a domestic fall quickly it seems is unheard of.

Except that's just not true....

https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/sites/default/files/first%20foremost%20falls%20factsheet.pdf

From that fact sheet:
Deaths and severe injuries are often associated with a fall from a high window or balcony or down stairs. Falls can also result in serious injury if the surface the child hits is hard - such as concrete or paving stones.

Post mortem results are to be found in a patient's confidential medical records. The report is part of the medical record of the deceased. You have to complete a formal document requesting access to the Medical Record to comply with the law on patient confidentiality. Consent has to be given usually by the next of kin. So you're not going to find what you're asking for just by using Google!

But honestly all you need to do is read the facts from the link. It's there for all to see that child deaths do occur following falls in the home and the fact sheet even gives as an example a child hitting a hard surface. In my opinion the risk is increased considerably when there is no adult supervision of children under five (who are in a higher risk group even with adult supervision). I've said it before - I don't loath the McCann's. If Madeleine had a fatal fall or if she was abducted, whilst she was unsupervised then they will have suffered the most terrible pain and anguish and they will have to live with the mistake they made every single day.

[Vertigo Swirl]

And yet still no actual examples (despite the supposed plethora of instant or near instant deaths in the home)of young children from falls.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Unintentional injuries are one of the main causes of premature death and illness for children in England. Every year in England, 60 children under the age of five die from injuries in and around the home, which is one in twelve of all deaths of children aged one to four.
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2017/02/28/preventing-accidents-in-children-under-five/

About as prevalent as children under 16 being abducted by strangers then.  Do you have any examples of children dying within 30 minutes of a fall in the home?  As only 60 children umder 5 die from domestic injuries not all of which will be as a result of falls, these will be extremely rare and therefore very newsworthy.

[G-Unit]

About as prevalent as children under 16 being abducted by strangers then.  Do you have any examples of children dying within 30 minutes of a fall in the home?  As only 60 children umder 5 die from domestic injuries not all of which will be as a result of falls, these will be extremely rare and therefore very newsworthy.

Accidental deaths aren't newsworthy. There may be local news reports, but the national press rarely pick them up.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Accidental deaths aren't newsworthy. There may be local news reports, but the national press rarely pick them up.

The figures for fatal falls in children under five can be found via your link.... It's the PHE link.... Falls tops the list of accidental home injury in the under fives.... fatal falls are thankfully quite rare but certainly not unheard of.

And yes you're correct. The actual post mortem details of the accidental deaths in homes are in confidential medical records and not generally available to the public in news reports.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Accidental deaths aren't newsworthy. There may be local news reports, but the national press rarely pick them up.

Yes they are, if they are as rare as stranger abduction.  Aren’t parents ever prosecuted for neglect in such cases?Google “toddler dies in accident “, hundreds of hits but not newsworthy you say?  Yet none match any plausible scenario of accidental death in this case.

[Vertigo Swirl]

So Madeleine has this freak accident, plummeting to almost sudden death aftet the parents went to dinner.  Who discovers her dead and at what time?

[G-Unit]

The figures for fatal falls in children under five can be found via your link.... It's the PHE link.... Falls tops the list of accidental home injury in the under fives.... fatal falls are thankfully quite rare but certainly not unheard of.

And yes you're correct. The actual post mortem details of the accidental deaths in homes are in confidential medical records and not generally available to the public in news reports.

The Asda incident was very public so was picked up. Had it happened in the family's home it probably wouldn't have been reported imo; not by the national media anyway. Many elderly people die during or after falls in their homes and they're rarely reported in the newspapers.

[Vertigo Swirl]

The Asda incident was very public so was picked up. Had it happened in the family's home it probably wouldn't have been reported imo; not by the national media anyway. Many elderly people die during or after falls in their homes and they're rarely reported in the newspapers.

Old people are expected to die, young children’s deaths are far more noteworthy as can be evidenced by the hundreds of reports of childhood death by accident available to read online.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Old people are expected to die, young children’s deaths are far more noteworthy as can be evidenced by the hundreds of reports of childhood death by accident available to read online.

And some of those are under 5's suffering fatal falls. Public Health England have the figures. The link to their data is in G-Unit's link. It's rare but happens. There are about 3 cases a year in the UK (fatal falls in the home in the under 5 age group).

Falls are the most common accident in the home.... and a fall even from 4-5 feet can cause unconsciousness if your head hits a hard surface... and the first thing to assess in an unconscious person is their airway. It's thankfully rare but you can't claim it doesn't happen. I'm actually stunned that people aren't aware of the risks of leaving toddlers unsupervised at home... but I'll admit to getting a bias view working in a hospital and seeing unconscious children lose their airway.

I'll tell you what I consider is  nigh on impossible and that's to carry a 3 year old out of the 5A bedroom window!

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

So Madeleine has this freak accident, plummeting to almost sudden death aftet the parents went to dinner.  Who discovers her dead and at what time?

I'll throw in a totally hypothetical scenario.... Matt Oldfield finds her missing at 9:30pm, he also checks the master bedroom but can't see her and then returns to either report all is quiet.... or maybe he tells Gerry he didn't see Madeleine. Gerry is then absent for half an hour as per the two employee witness statements.

It's Rachael who alludes to this, imo, when asked "for completeness" what did Matt tell you he saw.... she replies: "he could see that the twins were in their cots and there was no sound, erm so he just assumed everything was alright, he didnt put his head round the door to see if Madeleine was in her bed, but he said he did wonder where she slept, erm poked his head, well you know kind of looked into Gerry and Kates room, just saw there was a double bed there, so you know, assumed they were all in together or, I mean I think he knew that they were all in together, erm but he didnt actually look to see whether Madeleine was there or not'. "

"He did wonder where she slept" might imo imply he wondered where she slept because he can't see her in the children's room... and then logically as Racael states he checks the other bedroom.

[Vertigo Swirl]

And some of those are under 5's suffering fatal falls. Public Health England have the figures. The link to their data is in G-Unit's link. It's rare but happens. There are about 3 cases a year in the UK (fatal falls in the home in the under 5 age group).

Falls are the most common accident in the home.... and a fall even from 4-5 feet can cause unconsciousness if your head hits a hard surface... and the first thing to assess in an unconscious person is their airway. It's thankfully rare but you can't claim it doesn't happen. I'm actually stunned that people aren't aware of the risks of leaving toddlers unsupervised at home... but I'll admit to getting a bias view working in a hospital and seeing unconscious children lose their airway.

I'll tell you what I consider is  nigh on impossible and that's to carry a 3 year old out of the 5A bedroom window!

3 fatal falls in the home in the under 5 age group per year is stunningly rare.  Of those 3 deaths were they all instantaneous or did the children die in hospital hours later?  These cases would make the newspapers no question, but still no links to any of the cases (and by my reckoning there should be 42 of these deaths since Madeleine disappeared).