Wandering Off Topic

[Vertigo Swirl]

You are assuming that speaking to one of Madeleine's parents would involve everyone at the table hearing the conversation. There were individual conversations taking place however;

4078    ”Can you remember what conversation was going on in the time before Kate discovered Madeleine missing?”

 Reply    ”Well again now, because err you know when you’ve got a group of nine people you’re not all talking…”

 

 4078    ”No.”

 Reply    ”In the middle of the table, you know, I would be, I was probably talking to Russell when he came back you know and talking about the fact he’d got a new steak, he didn’t get a warmed up one.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

So Matthew could have asked one of the parents where Madeleine slept without being heard by everyone. The answer would have reassured him if he hadn't checked that bed. If he had, then that parent may have decided to check for themselves; especially her mother, who had told her friends earlier that the patio doors were left open so Madeleine could get out.

So the disappearance could have been discovered at 9.30pm - 9.40pm, even if the alarm wasn't raised until 10pm.

This hypothesis is IMO.

Right, so let's think about this theoretical scenario logically.
Matt discovers Madeleine missing from her bed.  Tries to find her but fails.  Comes back to the table and whispers in Gerry's ear "your daughter's disappeared".  Then what?  Neither McCann gets up to check on the disappearing child until 10pm?  And Matt is happy to cover for them?  Why?

[Eleanor]

I think you would obviously. Such a scenario is perhaps supported by the two employee statements who talks about Gerry being absent for half an hour. It doesn’t necessarily mean anyone else in the groups knows hypothetically speaking and imo. To continue with this hypothetical scenario Gerry could come back and say everything is fine (Matt’s only not sure if she’s there). Kate finds the scene she found. It doesn’t fit the final version of the T9 timeline but discrepancies are normal as to checks and exact times and then all those translations!!! It’s not what I think happened but IMO it’s far more plausible than someone climbing out of the window with Madeleine which is nigh on impossible.

How do you feel about passing Madeleine through the window?

[Wonderfulspam]

Have you ever considered climbing it yourself?  If it's finances putting you off we could start a Crowdfunder.

Hmmm, Guinness book here I come.

Technology has come a long way, Internet at base camp, I could even be trolling from camp 4.

The first Wum to climb Mount Everest.

I can picture myself on the summit, holding up a flag saying 'Free Martin Brueckner'.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

How do you feel about passing Madeleine through the window?

That’s definitely a possibility.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Hmmm, Guinness book here I come.

Technology has come a long way, Internet at base camp, I could even be trolling from camp 4.

The first Wum to climb Mount Everest.

I can picture myself on the summit, holding up a flag saying 'Free Martin Brueckner'.

Well, you've got my full support (or at least a fiver's worth of it).  Good luck!

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Right, so let's think about this theoretical scenario logically.
Matt discovers Madeleine missing from her bed.  Tries to find her but fails.  Comes back to the table and whispers in Gerry's ear "your daughter's disappeared".  Then what?  Neither McCann gets up to check on the disappearing child until 10pm?  And Matt is happy to cover for them?  Why?

Gerry goes for half an hour, hypothetically speaking. Matt doesn’t need to lie (apart from this scenario doesn’t fit the T9 timeline) . All Matt did was return to the bar to tell Gerry that he couldn’t see Madeleine. Why would he tell Rachael he checked the master bedroom? Why did he say he wasn’t sure where Madeleine slept?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Gerry goes for half an hour, hypothetically speaking. Matt doesn’t need to lie (apart from these scenario doesn’t fit the T9 timeline) . All Matt did was return to the bar to tell Gerry that he couldn’t see Madeleine. Why would he tell Rachael he checked the master bedroom? Why did he say he wasn’t sure where Madeleine slept?

OK - so you've got Gerry leaving the table for half an hour after Matt returns, a check that none of the rest of the table remember to mention in their statements?  And as soon as he returns Kate does her check? 

[G-Unit]

Right, so let's think about this theoretical scenario logically.
Matt discovers Madeleine missing from her bed.  Tries to find her but fails.  Comes back to the table and whispers in Gerry's ear "your daughter's disappeared".  Then what?  Neither McCann gets up to check on the disappearing child until 10pm?  And Matt is happy to cover for them?  Why?

I have already hypothesised that a parent could have gone to check for themselves. No need to go mob handed, because Matt could have missed seeing Madeleine, she could be there. The parent checks thoroughly and she isn't in the apartment. Maybe she's left through the patio doors left unlocked for that very purpose? Hence the calls of 'Madeleine' heard by Mrs Carpenter.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

OK - so you've got Gerry leaving the table for half an hour after Matt returns, a check that none of the rest of the table remember to mention in their statements?  And as soon as he returns Kate does her check?

Wasn’t there definitely talk of “Gerry’s been a long time…. Maybe he’s watching football’ . They’ve just got the times of the checks muddled. That’s hardly surprising even the two versions in the sticker book are different!!

I don’t believe this is what happened. But there were the employee statements, the Smith sighting and the timeline discrepancies that should have been focused on with a line of very direct questioning to clear the ground from under the feet. Instead you got interference from different Police departments in the Uk and Portugal and there was even political pressure applied to make the investigation focus on abduction…. What you’ve got left with is a big mess and the Police happy to trawl through pardophiiles until they have enough circumstantial evidence to satisfy the public that it’s case closed even without it ever going to trial. IMO.

[jassi]

I have already hypothesised that a parent could have gone to check for themselves. No need to go mob handed, because Matt could have missed seeing Madeleine, she could be there. The parent checks thoroughly and she isn't in the apartment. Maybe she's left through the patio doors left unlocked for that very purpose? Hence the calls of 'Madeleine' heard by Mrs Carpenter.

Was Mrs Carpenter ever interviewed like her husband?
Did she ever say whether it was a male or female voice that she heard?

[Vertigo Swirl]

I have already hypothesised that a parent could have gone to check for themselves. No need to go mob handed, because Matt could have missed seeing Madeleine, she could be there. The parent checks thoroughly and she isn't in the apartment. Maybe she's left through the patio doors left unlocked for that very purpose? Hence the calls of 'Madeleine' heard by Mrs Carpenter.

I don't follow.  I did not suggest that anyone went mob-handed but from your previous post you suggested it would be possible for Matt Oldfield to come back to the table and discreetly mention to a parent that Madeleine was missing - I am asking you what happened next?  Because as far as the Tapas recollection is concerned neither McCann parent got up to do a check on his return.  So - two questions.  1) Why not if he has just told one of them that the child is missing?  2) Why is he covering for them? 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Wasn’t there definitely talk of “Gerry’s been a long time…. Maybe he’s watching football’ . They’ve just got the times of the checks muddled. That’s hardly surprising even the two versions in the sticker book are different!!

I don’t believe this is what happened. But there were the employee statements, the Smith sighting and the timeline discrepancies that should have been focused on with a line of very direct questioning to clear the ground from under the feet. Instead you got interference from different Police departments in the Uk and Portugal and there was even political pressure applied to make the investigation focus on abduction…. What you’ve got left with is a big mess and the Police happy to trawl through pardophiiles until they have enough circumstantial evidence to satisfy the public that it’s case closed even without it ever going to trial. IMO.

So you've introduced a scenario you don't think happened, what DO you think happened?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Wasn’t there definitely talk of “Gerry’s been a long time…. Maybe he’s watching football’ . They’ve just got the times of the checks muddled. That’s hardly surprising even the two versions in the sticker book are different!!

I don’t believe this is what happened. But there were the employee statements, the Smith sighting and the timeline discrepancies that should have been focused on with a line of very direct questioning to clear the ground from under the feet. Instead you got interference from different Police departments in the Uk and Portugal and there was even political pressure applied to make the investigation focus on abduction…. What you’ve got left with is a big mess and the Police happy to trawl through pardophiiles until they have enough circumstantial evidence to satisfy the public that it’s case closed even without it ever going to trial. IMO.

PS: Why are the Portuguese police so weak and easily distracted and pushed about? 

[G-Unit]

Was Mrs Carpenter ever interviewed like her husband?
Did she ever say whether it was a male or female voice that she heard?

She was, and according to DI Gary Watts he sent her rogatory interview with others to UKCA on 23rd May 2008. It didn't reach the PJ files for some reason.

From 2nd Letter of Request, received by UKCA 4th February 2008.

1. Page 18 Interview Steve CARPENTER, he was interviewed on 21st April 2008, the interview was recorded on DVD, please see enclosed 1 copy of the transcript, 1 copy of the DVD, 1 copy of his statement and a copy of the Detective's
statement evidencing the interview.

2. Page 18 Interview Carolyn Elizabeth CARPENTER, she was interviewed on 21st April 2008, the interview was recorded on DVD, please see enclosed 1 copy of the transcript, 1 copy of the DVD, 1 copy of her statement and a copy of the
Detective's statement evidencing the interview.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FRANCES_KENNAH.htm#4400

[G-Unit]

I don't follow.  I did not suggest that anyone went mob-handed but from your previous post you suggested it would be possible for Matt Oldfield to come back to the table and discreetly mention to a parent that Madeleine was missing - I am asking you what happened next?  Because as far as the Tapas recollection is concerned neither McCann parent got up to do a check on his return.  So - two questions.  1) Why not if he has just told one of them that the child is missing?  2) Why is he covering for them?

Matthew didn't know that the child was missing. All he knew was that he hadn't seen her, and he wondered where she slept. If he said nothing who was calling "Madeleine"? Or was Mrs Carpenter hearing things? Or did her husband misremember what time he left the Tapas complex?