Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 3139528 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5130 on: March 08, 2019, 05:02:40 PM »
The Portuguese Prosecutors https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2504246/Madeleine-McCann-files-Portuguese-prosecutors-criticise-police.html went out of their way to exonerate the parents from blame and gave very succinct and humane reasons for doing so.
What a shame that humanity has not been replicated by some which I think may well have made life a bit easier for the actual perpetrator/s.

The Supreme Court Judges went out of their way to quote chunks of the archiving dispatch where the prosecutors expressed their doubts about the story told by the parents and Jane Tanner, about the timeline and the possibility of Madeleine being alive.

Had they been bending over backwards  to exonerate them why did they include details of those doubts in their dispatch?
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5131 on: March 08, 2019, 05:50:52 PM »
The Supreme Court Judges went out of their way to quote chunks of the archiving dispatch where the prosecutors expressed their doubts about the story told by the parents and Jane Tanner, about the timeline and the possibility of Madeleine being alive.

Had they been bending over backwards  to exonerate them why did they include details of those doubts in their dispatch?
If you think for one nano second that the public prosecutors bent over backwards to 'exonerate' the McCanns I rather think you are barking up the wrong tree.

They went by the evidence and they went by the law and the archiving dispatch was the result.

The supreme court judges quoted from the existing files and the final PJ report from which the public prosecutors constructed their ruling exonerating the McCanns and Murat. 

I haven't as yet rationalised the significance of judges in a civil case overturning a legal dispatch concerning a criminal case ... maybe the ECHR will explain?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5132 on: March 08, 2019, 08:52:33 PM »
If you think for one nano second that the public prosecutors bent over backwards to 'exonerate' the McCanns I rather think you are barking up the wrong tree.

They went by the evidence and they went by the law and the archiving dispatch was the result.

The supreme court judges quoted from the existing files and the final PJ report from which the public prosecutors constructed their ruling exonerating the McCanns and Murat. 

I haven't as yet rationalised the significance of judges in a civil case overturning a legal dispatch concerning a criminal case ... maybe the ECHR will explain?

So sorry, I was under the impression that was your opinion;

Snip/
The Portuguese Prosecutors went out of their way to exonerate the parents from blame
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg514769#msg514769

I think you'll find the prosecutors quoted the archiving dispatch, not the PJ report.

The Supreme Court Judges examined the archiving dispatch for one reason only; the McCann's lawyers brought it up.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5133 on: March 08, 2019, 10:21:24 PM »
So sorry, I was under the impression that was your opinion;

Snip/
The Portuguese Prosecutors went out of their way to exonerate the parents from blame
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg514769#msg514769

I think you'll find the prosecutors quoted the archiving dispatch, not the PJ report.

The Supreme Court Judges examined the archiving dispatch for one reason only; the McCann's lawyers brought it up.

Some people can get so excited about mis quoting to fit an agenda. NO ONE has exonerated the McCanns of anything on the basis  THE crime has not been established!

They have not been charged- because the Crime has not been established- due to LACK of proscecutable evidence

- by not being established they do not believe in the abduction story put forward ny McCann and Co. Hence not exonerated.

 ?{)(**
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5134 on: March 08, 2019, 11:15:30 PM »
So sorry, I was under the impression that was your opinion;

Snip/
The Portuguese Prosecutors went out of their way to exonerate the parents from blame
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg514769#msg514769

I think you'll find the prosecutors quoted the archiving dispatch, not the PJ report.

The Supreme Court Judges examined the archiving dispatch for one reason only; the McCann's lawyers brought it up.

Did the public prosecutors Jose de Magalhaes and Joao Melchior Gomes magic up the content of the archiving dispatch from thin air?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5135 on: March 08, 2019, 11:18:55 PM »
Did the public prosecutors Jose de Magalhaes and Joao Melchior Gomes magic up the content of the archiving dispatch from thin air?


Many seniors also opined that the McCanns should have been charged with neglect or some such other 'crime' to take some responsibility about a childs disappearance.  Funny you don't copy and paste those bits...
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5136 on: March 08, 2019, 11:30:35 PM »

Many seniors also opined that the McCanns should have been charged with neglect or some such other 'crime' to take some responsibility about a childs disappearance.  Funny you don't copy and paste those bits...
How about this one for you direct from the public prosecutors themselves ...
Snip
Mr Magalhaes defended the McCanns' decision to leave their children alone in the apartment on the night Madeleine vanished.

There was speculation that the couple, from Rothley in Leicestershire, may have ben charged with "abandonment", which can incur a prison sentence of up to 10 years.

But Mr Magalhaes said Mr and Mrs McCann did not believe their children were in any danger when they left Madeleine and her younger twin siblings.

"It is obvious that neither of the defendants, Gerald or Kate, acted with intent," they said.

"They could not predict that the resort where they had chosen to spend a few days holiday would leave the lives of any of their children in danger.

"It was located in a quiet place, where the majority of residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of crime.

"Although they left their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment, sometimes for extended periods, it is true that, in any case, they were keeping an eye on them."

Both prosecutors went on to say that they felt the parents had suffered enough.

"We must also recognise that the parents are already paying a heavy penalty - the disappearance of Madeleine - for their carelessness in monitoring and protecting their children.

"It seems obvious to us that the crimes of exposure or abandonment can be eliminated."

Mr Magalhaes said all the theories – including the possibility that the couple had accidentally killed their daughter and disposed of her body – had come to nothing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2504246/Madeleine-McCann-files-Portuguese-prosecutors-criticise-police.html

I believe that might be summed up as "bending over backwards" to exonerate two bereft parents.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5137 on: March 08, 2019, 11:33:37 PM »
How about this one for you direct from the public prosecutors themselves ...
Snip
Mr Magalhaes defended the McCanns' decision to leave their children alone in the apartment on the night Madeleine vanished.

There was speculation that the couple, from Rothley in Leicestershire, may have ben charged with "abandonment", which can incur a prison sentence of up to 10 years.

But Mr Magalhaes said Mr and Mrs McCann did not believe their children were in any danger when they left Madeleine and her younger twin siblings.

"It is obvious that neither of the defendants, Gerald or Kate, acted with intent," they said.

"They could not predict that the resort where they had chosen to spend a few days holiday would leave the lives of any of their children in danger.

"It was located in a quiet place, where the majority of residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of crime.

"Although they left their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment, sometimes for extended periods, it is true that, in any case, they were keeping an eye on them."

Both prosecutors went on to say that they felt the parents had suffered enough.

"We must also recognise that the parents are already paying a heavy penalty - the disappearance of Madeleine - for their carelessness in monitoring and protecting their children.

"It seems obvious to us that the crimes of exposure or abandonment can be eliminated."

Mr Magalhaes said all the theories – including the possibility that the couple had accidentally killed their daughter and disposed of her body – had come to nothing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2504246/Madeleine-McCann-files-Portuguese-prosecutors-criticise-police.html

I believe that might be summed up as "bending over backwards" to exonerate two bereft parents.

The telegraph?  you believe?
pfft!

'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5138 on: March 08, 2019, 11:58:18 PM »
The telegraph?  you believe?
pfft!
Yes I do because I have read the archiving dispatch ... but for those who doubt, taken directly from the translated dispatch ...
Snip
It seems evident to us and because the files contain enough elements for such, that the crime of exposure or abandonment according to article 138 of the Penal Code can be eliminated from that range:
 
“1 – Whoever places another person’s life in danger,
 
a) By exposing her in a location where she is subject to a situation from which she, on her own, cannot defend herself against; or
 
b) Abandoning her without defence, whenever the agent had the duty to guard her, to watch over her or to assist her;”
 
This legal type of crime is only fulfilled with intent, and this intent has to cover the creation of danger to the victim’s life, as well as the absence of a capacity to defend herself, on the victim’s behalf. In the case of the files and facing the elements that were collected it is evident that none of the arguidos Gerald or Kate acted with intent. The parents could not foresee that in the resort that they chose to spend a brief holiday, they could place the life of any of their children in danger, nor was that demanded from them: it was located in a peaceful area, where most of the residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of criminality.

The parents didn’t even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.
 
Reinforcing what was said is also the fact that despite leaving their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment during more or less dilated moments, it is certain that in any case they checked on them. Without any pretension or compensatory effect, we must also recognise that the parents already expiate a heavy penalty – the disappearance of Madeleine – due to their lack of caution in the surveillance and protection of their children.
 
Concerning the other indicated crimes, they are no more than that and despite our perception that, due to its high degree of probability, the occurrence of a homicide cannot be discarded, such cannot be more than a mere supposition, due to the lack of sustaining elements in the files.
 
The non involvement of the arguidos parents of Madeleine in any penally relevant action seems to result from the objective circumstances of them not being inside the apartment when she disappeared, from the normal behaviour that they adopted until said disappearance and afterwards, as can be amply concluded from the witness statements, from the telephone communications analysis and also from the forensics’ conclusions, namely the Reports from the FSS and from the National Institute for Legal Medicine.
 
To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated. If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media – before the police – was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.
 
Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child’s death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the ‘Ocean Club’ resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal.

The parents didn’t even represent the realisation of the fact, they trusted that everything would go well, as it had gone on the previous evenings, thus not equating, nor was it demanded from them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children that were in their respective apartments.
 
Reinforcing what was said is also the fact that despite leaving their daughter alone with her siblings in the apartment during more or less dilated moments, it is certain that in any case they checked on them. Without any pretension or compensatory effect, we must also recognise that the parents already expiate a heavy penalty – the disappearance of Madeleine – due to their lack of caution in the surveillance and protection of their children.
 
Concerning the other indicated crimes, they are no more than that and despite our perception that, due to its high degree of probability, the occurrence of a homicide cannot be discarded, such cannot be more than a mere supposition, due to the lack of sustaining elements in the files.
 
The non involvement of the arguidos parents of Madeleine in any penally relevant action seems to result from the objective circumstances of them not being inside the apartment when she disappeared, from the normal behaviour that they adopted until said disappearance and afterwards, as can be amply concluded from the witness statements, from the telephone communications analysis and also from the forensics’ conclusions, namely the Reports from the FSS and from the National Institute for Legal Medicine.
 
To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated. If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media – before the police – was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.
 
Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child’s death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the ‘Ocean Club’ resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal.
http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/the-pjs-final-report-the-archiving-dispatch/

There is more ... I recommend you read it all ... as it may serve to allow you a better understanding of more aspects of the case based on the limited information we have to hand.
There must be so much more available now ... this dispatch was signed off in 2008 ... there's all the information from the intervening years available to the police but not to us.  Which is as it should be.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5139 on: March 09, 2019, 09:06:53 AM »
The most salient piece from the archive being.

Quote
Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively – the most dramatic – to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.

Still remains the case today,thats why its where its at.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5140 on: March 09, 2019, 10:04:28 AM »
The most salient piece from the archive being.

Still remains the case today,thats why its where its at.

Do you really think that time has stood still in investigative terms since the archiving dispatch was published back in 2008 with nothing more being gleaned in the intervening years?

That may be "that's why its where its at" in 2008.  That was then ... this is now ... and things have moved on.

Before you say anything NB the archive of 2008 was published at the close of play as far as the Portuguese were concerned.
We haven't reached that stage yet in 2019 ... so there is more to come,
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5141 on: March 09, 2019, 10:38:19 AM »
Oh its moved on alright a few paces in fact according to the rags last November, walking out herself rather than a bogey man taking her out of a window.

Quote
BRITISH police are re-examining the theory that Madeleine McCann walked out of her family’s Portugal holiday apartment to look for her parents.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1050074/madeleine-mccann-Praia-da-Luz-algarve-portugal-police-scotland-yard-kate-gerry-mccann
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5142 on: March 09, 2019, 11:04:22 AM »
Oh its moved on alright a few paces in fact according to the rags last November, walking out herself rather than a bogey man taking her out of a window.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1050074/madeleine-mccann-Praia-da-Luz-algarve-portugal-police-scotland-yard-kate-gerry-mccann
You go with uncorroborated press speculation if it keeps you happy ... I'm content to bide my time and wait for the official version of what is actually happening to be released.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline barrier

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5143 on: March 09, 2019, 11:06:24 AM »
You go with uncorroborated press speculation if it keeps you happy ... I'm content to bide my time and wait for the official version of what is actually happening to be released.


Hopefully you'll bear that in mind when you next cite a news article.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #5144 on: March 09, 2019, 11:14:12 AM »

Hopefully you'll bear that in mind when you next cite a news article.

I consider the cites I choose to post very carefully indeed.  Surprised you hadn't clocked that.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....