Wandering Off Topic

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Dog Alerts have to be backed up by other Evidence.  They never stand alone.

Even if they have to be backed up with other circumstantial evidence not concerning the alert themselves they are still evidence.
Not to wish to derail the thread I will repost my post in the Dog Evidence thread.

[Eleanor]

Even if they have to be backed up with other circumstantial evidence not concerning the alert themselves they are still evidence.
Not to wish to derail the thread I will repost my post in the Dog Evidence thread.

Thank you for not starting another Dog Thread.

[barrier]

Thank you for not starting another Dog Thread.

You make sense sometimes.

[Eleanor]

You make sense sometimes.

And thank you to you too.

[Brietta]

Its a circle which will need to be squared at some stage in the McCann case.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57002010


Emma Faulds: Police dog indicated body scent during car search

Later in the footage, the dog appears to repeatedly bark at the boot area of the Jaguar.

PC Gunderson said to him it was "clear" Max was giving "an indication".

The dog barked at the boot area of Emma's BMW.
In Luz the dog barked at the side pocket of the drivers door.  Spot the difference.

In Luz it was PROVED that the dog barked at blood? on the key fob which WAS NOT Madeleine's.  Had you forgotten that ... or just ignoring it.

[Brietta]

But,but, but….. it has been repeated many times on these esteemed pages that dog alerts are NOT evidence. In fact on the very thread concerning this issue on this forum one poster postulated that the only reason previous dog alert evidence had been heard in court before was because the judges had erred in allowing them. Wait until the press get hold of this, another judge so untrained in the matters of law that he allows cadaver dog evidence to be heard in court. Surely there will be a mistrial

You are breenging off in entirely the wrong direction here so boring when the issue was actually resolved way back in 2007.

For information - dog alerts are indications and evidence and do not in themselves constitute proof.  This circumstantial evidence ties in with the evidence that the accused was in Emma's car where his DNA was located forensically on the adjustment handle under the drivers seat.

'MATCHED' DNA found in Emma Faulds’ car matches profile of ‘murder’ accused Ross Willox
Grant McCabe
4 May 2021
Forensic scientist Joanne Cochrane today told how she took a 'taping' from a seat lever of the BMW.

The witness said this then matched the DNA profile of Ross Willox, 41, who denies murdering Emma at his home in Fairfield Park, Monkton, Ayrshire, on April 28, 2019 by means unknown.

Prosecutor Paul Kearney asked: "Could you detect any DNA from Emma Faulds in that taping?"
She said "further traces" were described as "unsuitable for interpretation".
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7061338/dna-found-emma-faulds-car-murder-accused-ross-willox/

[Brietta]

Will be interesting to see the outcome.


'Positive indication'
Later in the footage, the dog appears to repeatedly bark at the boot area of the Jaguar.

PC Gunderson said to him it was "clear" Max was giving "an indication".

Mr Kearney asked: "Do you have any doubt of it being a positive indication from your dog in what he is trained to find?"

PC Gunderson: "I have no doubt whatsoever."

Mr Willox denies the accusations.

As soon as I read that in my morning paper I absolutely knew that "the dogs don't lie" brigade would have a field day with it and I have not been disappointed.

Emma's body was transported and dumped in a forest some distance away from her home.  The accused was seen driving her car by a witness.  The accused's DNA was found in the vehicle at the driver's seat where it had no right to be.  It is highly likely that the dog's indications signal that Emma's remains were transported to the deposition site in her vehicle.

The prosecution is building a case here to present to the jury, which was NEVER the situation in Luz.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

You are breenging off in entirely the wrong direction here so boring when the issue was actually resolved way back in 2007.

For information - dog alerts are indications and evidence and do not in themselves constitute proof.  This circumstantial evidence ties in with the evidence that the accused was in Emma's car where his DNA was located forensically on the adjustment handle under the drivers seat.

'MATCHED' DNA found in Emma Faulds’ car matches profile of ‘murder’ accused Ross Willox
Grant McCabe
4 May 2021
Forensic scientist Joanne Cochrane today told how she took a 'taping' from a seat lever of the BMW.

The witness said this then matched the DNA profile of Ross Willox, 41, who denies murdering Emma at his home in Fairfield Park, Monkton, Ayrshire, on April 28, 2019 by means unknown.

Prosecutor Paul Kearney asked: "Could you detect any DNA from Emma Faulds in that taping?"
She said "further traces" were described as "unsuitable for interpretation".
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/7061338/dna-found-emma-faulds-car-murder-accused-ross-willox/

"For information - dog alerts are indications and evidence and do not in themselves constitute proof."


I am glad you have finally accepted that dog alerts are evidence. I think you may be the first of the so called “supporters” to publicly acknowledge this empirical fact. I have never claimed dog alerts constitute proof.

[Mr Gray]

"For information - dog alerts are indications and evidence and do not in themselves constitute proof."


I am glad you have finally accepted that dog alerts are evidence. I think you may be the first of the so called “supporters” to publicly acknowledge this empirical fact. I have never claimed dog alerts constitute proof.

According to Grime and Harrison they have no evidential reliability.
I was, reading the BDO report from Jersey.  It said after the piece of cranium was confirmed as human it was presented to Eddie who gave, a, positive alert to cadaver odour... Coconuts

[G-Unit]

The dog barked at the boot area of Emma's BMW.
In Luz the dog barked at the side pocket of the drivers door.  Spot the difference.

In Luz it was PROVED that the dog barked at blood? on the key fob which WAS NOT Madeleine's.  Had you forgotten that ... or just ignoring it.

Eddie did alert to the key fob, as did Keela. It wasn't possible to PROVE that they both alerted to blood. As Eddie was known to alert to cadaver scent he could have been alerting to that, just as he did in the main bedroom of apartment 5A.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

According to Grime and Harrison they have no evidential reliability.
I was, reading the BDO report from Jersey.  It said after the piece of cranium was confirmed as human it was presented to Eddie who gave, a, positive alert to cadaver odour... Coconuts

I think you may have mentioned the bit about Grime and Harrison before and it seems their unqualified opinion was wrong as there is a trial going ahead right now in the UK where a dog alert has been heard in open court. That's the fact.
I thought it was common knowledge that the shell was presented to Eddie and he alerted, but the only way to say if the alert was incorrect is in controlled lab conditions. Coconut shell is quite porous and I would suggest that odours would have been absorbed by such an item. Or maybe Eddie was wrong and he believed he detected the scent for which he was trained, which wasn’t there.

[Vertigo Swirl]

"For information - dog alerts are indications and evidence and do not in themselves constitute proof."


I am glad you have finally accepted that dog alerts are evidence. I think you may be the first of the so called “supporters” to publicly acknowledge this empirical fact. I have never claimed dog alerts constitute proof.

So, is it  your opinion that the dog alerts in PdL suggest that Madeleine's corpse was in the hire car?

[Mr Gray]

I think you may have mentioned the bit about Grime and Harrison before and it seems their unqualified opinion was wrong as there is a trial going ahead right now in the UK where a dog alert has been heard in open court. That's the fact.
I thought it was common knowledge that the shell was presented to Eddie and he alerted, but the only way to say if the alert was incorrect is in controlled lab conditions. Coconut shell is quite porous and I would suggest that odours would have been absorbed by such an item. Or maybe Eddie was wrong and he believed he detected the scent for which he was trained, which wasn’t there.

The fact is Grime was told it was human and Eddie alerted..
It wasn't human at all.  So then all the excuses start.

I'll have a look at the current trial... In this case it seems the hsndlet is supporting the alert... Grime and Harrison didnt

[Brietta]

Eddie did alert to the key fob, as did Keela. It wasn't possible to PROVE that they both alerted to blood. As Eddie was known to alert to cadaver scent he could have been alerting to that, just as he did in the main bedroom of apartment 5A.

We are reliably informed that Keela alerted ONLY to blood.  Therefore the deduction is simple.  The fact that the trace came back from the lab having tested positive for one of the very alive drivers of the car again the deduction is simple.

That apparently was Keela's purpose.  She eliminated 'the scent of death' if she also alerted where Eddie did - bearing the very important distinction that before he became the only 'enhanced 'dog in the world Eddie was a VRD an would react to blood.

None so blind though.

[Mr Gray]

I think you may have mentioned the bit about Grime and Harrison before and it seems their unqualified opinion was wrong as there is a trial going ahead right now in the UK where a dog alert has been heard in open court. That's the fact.
I thought it was common knowledge that the shell was presented to Eddie and he alerted, but the only way to say if the alert was incorrect is in controlled lab conditions. Coconut shell is quite porous and I would suggest that odours would have been absorbed by such an item. Or maybe Eddie was wrong and he believed he detected the scent for which he was trained, which wasn’t there.

I think it's highly possible that the Getmsns have proof Maffie did not die in the apartment... If that's the case how can the alerts be explained