Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 3158817 times)

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Offline kizzy

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10470 on: June 12, 2021, 10:05:20 AM »
"Might" being the operative word.

None was found.

Which didn't stop a certain ex-head-honcho PJ officer from making a mint out of his short-lived "investigation".

Whether he really did leave of his own volition or was booted with x-months's salary to find another job, he could have written a very different account of his time on the case, and it would still have been a bestseller.

If he had written a book that described the difficulties he'd faced (lack of computers, difficulties in back-up staff... generally gripes against slow procedures, the system in generall, I'd have found it more useful).

However, my objection is that's not what his book was about. And the book was fairly benign compared to the "docufiction", his column in whichever rag, plus innnumerable interviews, and whatever else he had planned. Ho

However, that's not what he did. He tried to convince everyone that she had indeed died in that flat and the parents (and others) had all been criminally involved, based on the flimsiest of "evidence".

In the meantime - and however remote the idea may be now (in 2021) that she could still be alive 14 years later - 1-2 years after her disappearance, or even later, there was nothing tangible to assert the contrary. The effect, for many, could (and probably was) that there was no longer any point in being vigilant concerning a child who might have been held captive).

He was effectively scuppering chances of her being found alive. What honest copper (and a dad, to boot), could be so heartless?

He was effectively scuppering chances of her being found alive. What honest copper (and a dad, to boot), could be so heartless?


This could also show imo - he had first hand information of what happened that night he was on the case an could probably know things we don't.

This is why I believe he knows the mccs are involved - and has risked everything to stick to his belief

Because he is basically a cop and father with knowledge of the case....

G.A was there.. involved ....none of us was ..he is working from knowledge ...ours is just opinions what we think happened.


It amazes me the work posters go to ...too discredit the dogs an Grime ...why...what does it prove

why so obsessed to discredit the dogs if you think there alerts were of no use anyway.

It does not alter the fact that the dogs only alerted to the mccs and the mccs belongings in different areas.

Not one single alert it seems.... to any of the others in there group.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10471 on: June 12, 2021, 10:08:54 AM »
How do you work that one out if there is a problem with Copy and Paste?

And never say 'Pardon', always say 'What', my granny used to say.

The problem is obvious when "Haut de la Garenne" copied pastes as  “Haul de la Garenne”. Google tells me this sort of thing happens to others too, but I don't really understand the explanations supplied. (not that I need to, it's enough to know it's not me or the Jersey Police)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Adobe/comments/j9j7af/cannot_copypaste_text_from_pdf_some_characters/
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Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10472 on: June 12, 2021, 10:12:06 AM »

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10473 on: June 12, 2021, 10:12:43 AM »
The problem is obvious when "Haut de la Garenne" copied pastes as  “Haul de la Garenne”. Google tells me this sort of thing happens to others too, but I don't really understand the explanations supplied. (not that I need to, it's enough to know it's not me or the Jersey Police)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Adobe/comments/j9j7af/cannot_copypaste_text_from_pdf_some_characters/

And that nothing was found, of course.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10474 on: June 12, 2021, 10:27:53 AM »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10475 on: June 12, 2021, 10:43:53 AM »
For anyone old enough to remember the Jersey saga...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1086018/How-police-chief-Lenny-Harper-lost-plot-Jersey-childrens-home-murders.html

As I understand it the press release said ""Jersey Police found what is believed to be partial remains of a child's body at former children's home on the island on Saturday morning"

The media then waxed lyrical, as they are wont to do.

The Daily Telegraph mentioned "the discovery of a body at the home at the weekend."
The Times said "After the discovery of the skull..."
The Mirror reported that: "Police investigating allegations of child abuse said on Monday their search of a former children's home in the Channel Islands where a body was found at the weekend..."
The Guardian led with: "The body of a child is found at the home after a sniffer dog detects remains through several inches of concrete..."
https://tonymusings.blogspot.com/2010/05/haut-de-la-garenne-retrospective-review.html?m=0

So journalistic licence turned 'partial remains' into a skull or even a body, just as Eddie alerting to a scent emerging through various channels became Eddie smelling said imaginary skull or body through several inches of concrete.

Perhaps the press should have examined their own role in this as well as that of the SIO?
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Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10476 on: June 12, 2021, 11:15:23 AM »
As I understand it the press release said ""Jersey Police found what is believed to be partial remains of a child's body at former children's home on the island on Saturday morning"

The media then waxed lyrical, as they are wont to do.

The Daily Telegraph mentioned "the discovery of a body at the home at the weekend."
The Times said "After the discovery of the skull..."
The Mirror reported that: "Police investigating allegations of child abuse said on Monday their search of a former children's home in the Channel Islands where a body was found at the weekend..."
The Guardian led with: "The body of a child is found at the home after a sniffer dog detects remains through several inches of concrete..."
https://tonymusings.blogspot.com/2010/05/haut-de-la-garenne-retrospective-review.html?m=0

So journalistic licence turned 'partial remains' into a skull or even a body, just as Eddie alerting to a scent emerging through various channels became Eddie smelling said imaginary skull or body through several inches of concrete.

Perhaps the press should have examined their own role in this as well as that of the SIO?

Absolutely. But who was feeding the media?

Have you read "Flat Earth News" by Nick Davies? His investigative work led to the Leveson inquiry.

Al Jazeera's documentary "McCanns versus the Media" is also worth watching, IMO.

Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZEpwVXgyw

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTimBzkcRM

Part 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEaDIhYABIg

Part 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPKn44DN9EM




« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 11:21:55 AM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10477 on: June 12, 2021, 11:23:10 AM »
In My Opinion Amaral only fixated on Murat because he knew that The McCanns could not have disposed of a body without help from a local with a car.

Way back, a PJ rumour was that the connection was... Exeter. The O'Briens had recently moved there, and Murat's sister lived there. And therefore, bingo. I'm not sure that they realised that Exeter is somewhat bigger than Portimão.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10478 on: June 12, 2021, 11:30:51 AM »
Absolutely. But who was feeding the media?

Have you read "Flat Earth News" by Nick Davies? His investigative work led to the Leveson inquiry.

Al Jazeera's documentary "McCanns versus the Media" is also worth watching, IMO.

Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZEpwVXgyw

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTimBzkcRM

Part 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEaDIhYABIg

Part 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPKn44DN9EM

Journalists really should understand that those who leak are doing it for reasons of their own, and may be exaggerating or even lying. Repeating what they say is irresponsible and unprofessional imo.
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Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10479 on: June 12, 2021, 11:33:20 AM »
And that nothing was found, of course.

Nothing relevant to the investigation.

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10480 on: June 12, 2021, 11:38:17 AM »
Journalists really should understand that those who leak are doing it for reasons of their own, and may be exaggerating or even lying. Repeating what they say is irresponsible and unprofessional imo.

I agree. I expect the Ciprianos do as well.

Zooming into recent world events, a major bleach-producing company had to issue a statement that their products were not intended to be ingested.

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10481 on: June 12, 2021, 12:10:37 PM »
Journalists really should understand that those who leak are doing it for reasons of their own, and may be exaggerating or even lying. Repeating what they say is irresponsible and unprofessional imo.

Keep that hat on, and try reading the coverage of the Cipriano case in that light.

All somewhere in this sub-forum:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=71.0

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10482 on: June 12, 2021, 12:30:59 PM »
Flippin' pdf. At the top it says page 4, but at the bottom of the page it says page 3.

STATES OF JERSEY POLICE
These staged renovations have been identified from archive plarming so as to prioritise areas
of search and identifY precise locations of relevant to this enquiry.
TASKING, STRATEGY AND DEPLOYMENT
On 5/2/08 a briefing was held at LGC Forensics Oxford Chaired by the SIO Deputy Chief
Officer Lenny Harper, States of Jersey Police. In addition to the briefing a document was
distributed which had been prepared by Karl Harrison, lead scientist LGC. This document
was a desk based study of the "Haut de Ia Garenne" site.
The Forensic Canine Search Consultancy produced a canine deployment brief encompassing
the entire site to maximise assurity. The canine assets would be deployed both in a wide area
screening and detailed search capacity.
On 19/2/08 the "Haul de Ia Garenne" site was visited by a reconnaissance party including
States of Jersey Police SIO and Forensic Services Manager, NPIA homicide search advisors,
FCSC canine advisor and LGC Forensics staff representing forensic archaeology and
anthropology.

https://catalogue.jerseyheritage.org/wp-content/plugins/adlib-interface/adlib-download.php?p=110390044&f=0&d=archive&suppress_download

Mine doesn't.
The bottom of page three says - Page three of twenty four.  Page four is the same and is as I have cut and pasted with no page number on the top but with Page four of twenty four at the bottom.


I think the problem as far as I am concerned is that you have added opinion to the quotation by saying "The advice and assistance of the NPIA in the deployment of UK specialists was secured... On 19/2/08 the "Haul de Ia Garenne" site was visited


Which is actually a bit of a laugh when one reads OPERATION RECTANGLE.  Advice and assistance was sought but whether or not it was taken is another matter.  But it most certainly was not a factor in the deployment of the dogs when none of the procedures in force at the time were either sought or implemented.

Snip

“It is not entirely clear how Mr Grime came to be involved in Operation Rectangle.  What is clear is that Mr Grime was the only specialist in this field who was approached and perhaps even considered by SOJP.  LGC, in response to a request for advice on this topic from SOJP in January2008, did in fact suggest and pass on the contact details of the Surrey Police Dog Unit but this was not followed up and no other UK police force was approached.  This seems slightly odd, especially given the stance of the ACPO Police Dog Working Group on this issue.”
Page 37

CFID landscape report (gov.je)

https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Operation%20Rectangle%20review%20of%20the%20efficient%20and%20effective%20use%20of%20resources%20201005%20BDO%20Alto.pdf
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10483 on: June 12, 2021, 01:50:11 PM »
Gosh.  That's a good find.  I actually do remember this.

The saddest part, for me, is that once the media switched off after the "skull" turned out be a coconut, it was almost as if nothing had ever happened there. The child abuse was real.

A bit of background reading:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/03/haut-de-la-garenne-house-of-horror-investigation-brought-jersey-abuse-to-light

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10484 on: June 12, 2021, 02:39:29 PM »
Police 'regret' appointing Lenny Harper
NewsPublished: May 20, 2016

THE States police 'regret' appointing Lenny Harper as the senior investigating officer of the historical abuse inquiry in 2007, a lawyer for the force told the Independent Jersey Care Inquiry on Thursday.
Police 'regret' appointing Lenny Harper

And in a second highly critical submission to the panel later in the day, a legal representative for the Law Officers' Department said Mr Harper had an 'astonishing attitude' to dealing with the media, which negatively impacted on the force.

Advocate Jeremy Garrood, on behalf of the police, said that during the operation, named Operation Rectangle, Mr Harper had been 'ill advised' to tell the media that the 'potential remains of a child' has been found at the Haute de la Garenne care home - following tests it was revealed that the fragments were not human remains.

Oliver Glasgow, QC, representing the Law Officers' Department, said that Mr Harper misled the media and his actions were a 'disservice' to the victims of child abuse.
https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2016/05/20/police-regret-appointing-lenny-harper/
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 02:42:05 PM by Carana »