Wandering Off Topic

[G-Unit]

For me it was Clarence ignoring Smithman at that London press conference when I’d read a report of the Smithman sighting in a UK newspaper. I even wrote to CEOPs staggered when Mitchell said he was getting “private briefings”. I’ve followed the case ever since. Despite the language on here and talk of “sceptics” I don’t loath the McCanns. Abduction or accident they have suffered a terrible tragedy as a result of leaving their very young children unsupervised.

I think some people are so convinced of the McCann's innocence that they take umbridge on their behalf even though what people are saying is actually true. What is also true is that investigative opportunities were missed by the PJ, and the amateur attempts made by the parents and their PI's also involved missed opportunities.

Whether Operation Grange has been above criticism remains to be seen, but they did seem to choose to concentrate on just one possibility, as highlighted by Colin Sutton.

I was surprised to find other's discussing the possibility that Gerry McCann was away from the Tapas restaurant between 9.30pm and 10pm, although some of the accusations they levelled at the McCann's holiday group were a step too far imo. With thanks to Misty for the link. From 15.05;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyeBAnO9V0

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think some people are so convinced of the McCann's innocence that they take umbridge on their behalf even though what people are saying is actually true. What is also true is that investigative opportunities were missed by the PJ, and the amateur attempts made by the parents and their PI's also involved missed opportunities.

Whether Operation Grange has been above criticism remains to be seen, but they did seem to choose to concentrate on just one possibility, as highlighted by Colin Sutton.

I was surprised to find other's discussing the possibility that Gerry McCann was away from the Tapas restaurant between 9.30pm and 10pm, although some of the accusations they levelled at the McCann's holiday group were a step too far imo. With thanks to Misty for the link. From 15.05;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyeBAnO9V0

Do you think it is credible that the entire Tapas group are covering up for the McCanns?  Because this is the second time recently you have mooted the idea that Gerry was absent from the table for the best part of the entire hour between 9pm and 10pm which certainly was not in any of the Tapas diners' statements.  Also, Dianne Webster clearly recalled Kate returning to the table to tell Gerry that Madeleine was gone.  So what exactly is it you think actually happened?  Oh wait - you don't do thinking, only regurgitating snippets of statements to cast doubt. 

[Brietta]

I think some people are so convinced of the McCann's innocence that they take umbridge on their behalf even though what people are saying is actually true. What is also true is that investigative opportunities were missed by the PJ, and the amateur attempts made by the parents and their PI's also involved missed opportunities.

Whether Operation Grange has been above criticism remains to be seen, but they did seem to choose to concentrate on just one possibility, as highlighted by Colin Sutton.

I was surprised to find other's discussing the possibility that Gerry McCann was away from the Tapas restaurant between 9.30pm and 10pm, although some of the accusations they levelled at the McCann's holiday group were a step too far imo. With thanks to Misty for the link. From 15.05;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyeBAnO9V0

It is a bit rich to criticise parents for having to raise money to employ private investigators to look for a missing child while admitting the Policia Juciaria botched the job and it took years of lobbying before Madeleine's own National force opened an investigation on her behalf.

Sceptics criticise the parents by saying they did not search for Madeleine while at the same time criticising every single effort and initiative they have taken to find her.

To this end Madeleine’s fund has been excoriated and the work of PIs derided despite being the only means of the search for Madeleine taking place.

There certainly seems to be an air among sceptics of resentment that at long last investigations are taking place with Madeleine McCann at the core.

[Brietta]

I think some people are so convinced of the McCann's innocence that they take umbridge on their behalf even though what people are saying is actually true. What is also true is that investigative opportunities were missed by the PJ, and the amateur attempts made by the parents and their PI's also involved missed opportunities.

Whether Operation Grange has been above criticism remains to be seen, but they did seem to choose to concentrate on just one possibility, as highlighted by Colin Sutton.

I was surprised to find other's discussing the possibility that Gerry McCann was away from the Tapas restaurant between 9.30pm and 10pm, although some of the accusations they levelled at the McCann's holiday group were a step too far imo. With thanks to Misty for the link. From 15.05;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyeBAnO9V0

Colin Sutton is on record as saying that he thought the Portuguese investigators concentrated on Madeleine's parents probably to the detriment of other investigative opportunities.

He said those closest to Maddie, including her parents, would have been the first line of inquiry for police.

But he added he believed Portuguese police appeared make this their only line of investigation early on in the probe.

He said: 'By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4435038/amp/Did-Madeleine-McCann-wander-accident.html

[G-Unit]

It is a bit rich to criticise parents for having to raise money to employ private investigators to look for a missing child while admitting the Policia Juciaria botched the job and it took years of lobbying before Madeleine's own National force opened an investigation on her behalf.

Sceptics criticise the parents by saying they did not search for Madeleine while at the same time criticising every single effort and initiative they have taken to find her.

To this end Madeleine’s fund has been excoriated and the work of PIs derided despite being the only means of the search for Madeleine taking place.

There certainly seems to be an air among sceptics of resentment that at long last investigations are taking place with Madeleine McCann at the core.

Is pointing out that investigators made mistakes the same as criticising 'parents for having to raise money to employ private investigators to look for a missing child'?

I'll criticise what you are referring to just so you know it's a different subject. Firstly, nobody made the parents raise money; in fact it was made plain that they didn't do that initially. People spontaneously offered money without being asked apparently. Secondly, they didn't have to employ private investigators either, but they did so very quickly; although CRG seemed to appear out of nowhere, just like the money did, and seemed to come free of charge. When they did choose to hire others they chose people with no track record or skills in finding missing/abducted children.

Finally, by 'searching' I think people meant actually physically covering the ground and looking. Asking or paying others to do that is persuading, motivating and organising not searching imo.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Is pointing out that investigators made mistakes the same as criticising 'parents for having to raise money to employ private investigators to look for a missing child'?

I'll criticise what you are referring to just so you know it's a different subject. Firstly, nobody made the parents raise money; in fact it was made plain that they didn't do that initially. People spontaneously offered money without being asked apparently. Secondly, they didn't have to employ private investigators either, but they did so very quickly; although CRG seemed to appear out of nowhere, just like the money did, and seemed to come free of charge. When they did choose to hire others they chose people with no track record or skills in finding missing/abducted children.

Finally, by 'searching' I think people meant actually physically covering the ground and looking. Asking or paying others to do that is persuading, motivating and organising not searching imo.

If hiring private detectives to look for your daughter is not classed as searching for her, what would you class it as? 

[Eleanor]

If hiring private detectives to look for your daughter is not classed as searching for her, what would you class it as?

Red Herrings I expect.

[Brietta]

Is pointing out that investigators made mistakes the same as criticising 'parents for having to raise money to employ private investigators to look for a missing child'?

I'll criticise what you are referring to just so you know it's a different subject. Firstly, nobody made the parents raise money; in fact it was made plain that they didn't do that initially. People spontaneously offered money without being asked apparently. Secondly, they didn't have to employ private investigators either, but they did so very quickly; although CRG seemed to appear out of nowhere, just like the money did, and seemed to come free of charge. When they did choose to hire others they chose people with no track record or skills in finding missing/abducted children.

Finally, by 'searching' I think people meant actually physically covering the ground and looking. Asking or paying others to do that is persuading, motivating and organising not searching imo.

I think you have succinctly summed up the sceptic attitude to the parents of a missing child which has been common currency since the leaks to the Portuguese press about "badly told stories" which in reality being under the secrecy of justice should never have been aired.

Your description of the sceptic thought process of how the McCanns should have searched for their abducted child is naive and risible in the extreme for very obvious reasons to which sceptics remain oblivious.

[G-Unit]

I think you have succinctly summed up the sceptic attitude to the parents of a missing child which has been common currency since the leaks to the Portuguese press about "badly told stories" which in reality being under the secrecy of justice should never have been aired.

Your description of the sceptic thought process of how the McCanns should have searched for their abducted child is naive and risible in the extreme for very obvious reasons to which sceptics remain oblivious.

So because they're 'the parents of a missing child' no-one should comment on their actions except to heap praise and sympathy upon them?


 

[Eleanor]

So because they're 'the parents of a missing child' no-one should comment on their actions except to heap praise and sympathy upon them?

That would have been the kind thing to do.

[Brietta]

So because they're 'the parents of a missing child' no-one should comment on their actions except to heap praise and sympathy upon them?

I can think of nothing worse than not knowing where a child is or what fate has befallen him or her. 

I will never understand those who go out of their way to heap malice and downright hatred on complete strangers trying to make a life for their families while living in that situation and I wouldn't want to.

[Eleanor]

I can think of nothing worse than not knowing where a child is or what fate has befallen him or her. 

I will never understand those who go out of their way to heap malice and downright hatred on complete strangers trying to make a life for their families while living in that situation and I wouldn't want to.

Just once I tried to imagine how I would feel, but it was too awful.  I don't go there anymore.

[G-Unit]

That would have been the kind thing to do.

It would have been kind to appreciate the efforts made by the Portuguese authorities, but that didn't happen.

[Eleanor]

It would have been kind to appreciate the efforts made by the Portuguese authorities, but that didn't happen.

That really is screwed.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

It is a bit rich to criticise parents for having to raise money to employ private investigators to look for a missing child while admitting the Policia Juciaria botched the job and it took years of lobbying before Madeleine's own National force opened an investigation on her behalf.

Sceptics criticise the parents by saying they did not search for Madeleine while at the same time criticising every single effort and initiative they have taken to find her.

To this end Madeleine’s fund has been excoriated and the work of PIs derided despite being the only means of the search for Madeleine taking place.

There certainly seems to be an air among sceptics of resentment that at long last investigations are taking place with Madeleine McCann at the core.

If investigations are taking place with Madeleine McCann "at the core" how much faith do you have in detectives who took 6 years to account for Tannerman when he had presented himself to the PJ in the early days? How much faith do you have in an investigation that takes 6 years to finally admit that Smithman should be a focus of greater attention? I knew about Smithman in 2007 - how is it a "revelation moment" for DCI Redwood in 2013? It's absolute nonsense..... If the 2013 Crimewatch show was a serious attempt to find the abductor - why was it dressed up as "if you were in PDL at the time, or might know this man please call our hotline" (not verbatim).... There has already been an identification of Smithman.... why weren't the viewers told the full facts? It's been the same narrative from the London press conference.... how can any serious investigation have a PR man, acting like a detective, talk about his "private briefings" from CEOPs yet fail to mention that Tannerman had presented himself to the Police.... and worse still imo fail to even mention the existence of Smithman!! How do you explain that an appeal for witnesses to an abduction fail to even mention a possible abductor!!!?? .

Abduction or accident this was tragic for the McCanns. If Madeleine is "at the core" then why does no-one point out the obvious that leaving children three and under alone in an unusual apartment is fraught with risk. On one night a child cried for an hour and a half, reportedly.... and there's some reports that some of the T9 group were in Chaplin's Bar which is further away still than the Tapas... just how effective and how frequently were their "listening outside the window" checks?? People have lost sight of the real cause of tragedy here imo.