Wandering Off Topic

[G-Unit]

All opinion with no real evidence to back it up...If the alerts are relaible why are sy and BKA ignoring them.

I think understanding what a Pavlovian response is and how it works can help with understanding how these dogs react and why. I don't understand why anyone would want to add SY and the BKA into a discussion about how cadaver dogs are trained?

[Mr Gray]

I think understanding what a Pavlovian response is and how it works can help with understanding how these dogs react and why. I don't understand why anyone would want to add SY and the BKA into a discussion about how cadaver dogs are trained?

pavlovian response is very basic biology......understanding how evidence support ideas is much more important.

The fact that SY and the BKA are happy to ignore the alerts casts collossal doubts on them.

As regards how cadaver dogs are trained....In the UK different to how every other detection dog is trained.

for example...Cash detection doigs are trained solely on cagh...they will only react to cash. Grimes dogs react to a range oif things and are not trained solely on human remains....which according to grime makes them unreliable

[G-Unit]

pavlovian response is very basic biology......understanding how evidence support ideas is much more important.

The fact that SY and the BKA are happy to ignore the alerts casts collossal doubts on them.

As regards how cadaver dogs are trained....In the UK different to how every other detection dog is trained.

for example...Cash detection doigs are trained solely on cagh...they will only react to cash. Grimes dogs react to a range oif things and are not trained solely on human remains....which according to grime makes them unreliable

The Pavlovian response is instinctive and therefore involuntary, reinforced by rewards. If it's set up correctly then the dog's response is involuntary and can't be manipulated. The way it works is evidence and anyone criticising Eddie needs to understand it.

Imo SY and the BKA have nothing to do with this process, so that's a different argument.

[Vertigo Swirl]

If a handler can trigger an alert then the Pavlovian training has either been carried out wrongly or it doesn't work. Eddie was conditioned from an early age to bark only in one situation; when he detected a certain scent. That was what triggered his bark, nothing else, and it was not a concious decision by the dog.

So is it your opinion that Grime's training was 100% effective and the dog was 100% accurate and incapable of alerting falsely owing to Grime's faultless training?

[Vertigo Swirl]

The Pavlovian response is instinctive and therefore involuntary, reinforced by rewards. If it's set up correctly then the dog's response is involuntary and can't be manipulated. The way it works is evidence and anyone criticising Eddie needs to understand it.

Imo SY and the BKA have nothing to do with this process, so that's a different argument.

Was the Pavlovian response unique to Grime's training of his dogs then?  Because in the article I cited yesterday in a study on drug and explosive dogs "No target odors were present, and yet dogs positively indicated 85% of the time, handlers said, suggesting the dogs served as loyal companions first and objective scent detectors second". 

[Mr Gray]

The Pavlovian response is instinctive and therefore involuntary, reinforced by rewards. If it's set up correctly then the dog's response is involuntary and can't be manipulated. The way it works is evidence and anyone criticising Eddie needs to understand it.

Imo SY and the BKA have nothing to do with this process, so that's a different argument.

e
Perhaps its you that doent understand it. the original experiment...food, bell salivation. then the dog only needed the bell   to salivat...but would salivate for other reasons. It doesnt mean the dog will only salivate if he hears the bell

[G-Unit]

e
Perhaps its you that doent understand it. the original experiment...food, bell salivation. then the dog only needed the bell   to salivat...but would salivate for other reasons. It doesnt mean the dog will only salivate if he hears the bell

In Eddies case he barked when he found cadaver scent but at no other time.

[Vertigo Swirl]

In Eddies case he barked when he found cadaver scent but at no other time.

How do you know?. Are you claiming Eddie did never bark at blood?

[Eleanor]

In Eddies case he barked when he found cadaver scent but at no other time.

Cadaver Scent from Whom?  Any ideas?

[Brietta]

In Eddies case he barked when he found cadaver scent but at no other time.

Absolutely not true.

However even were it so.  At whose cadaver scent would he have been barking in 5A?  Considering that any one of the families who occupied the apartment after the McCann stay could have been harbouring a mass murderer.  Similarly any who stayed there prior to the McCanns.  You do remember that the flat was let out to other people between the McCann departure and Eddie's arrival.

A dog barking means nothing unless there is a clue to what it is barking about and although some believe "dogs don't lie" they certainly do not speak.  Which is why back up forensic evidence is required.

[Brietta]

Cadaver Scent from Whom?  Any ideas?

I'm finding this cadaver scent obsession quite bizarre particularly when the files are quite explicit about dismissing it.

Mind you, the files are a bit pick and mix with folk ignoring the bits they don't like.

[Mr Gray]

In Eddies case he barked when he found cadaver scent but at no other time.

According to Grime...Grime does not know if Eddie has alerted to cadaver scent..grime says the bark suggests it.

You seem to be suggesting eddie is a totally reliable robot......which he cant be because he wasnt even trained on cadaver scent but dead piglet.

My view is Eddie barked to please his handler when he was called back several times....Grime was also anxious to build his business and may have overegged his claimns.you can disagree but its of no importance...SY and BKA are happy to ignore them. I can think of no other reason they would ignore them apart from the fact they are not reliable

[Rossb]

Was the Pavlovian response unique to Grime's training of his dogs then?  Because in the article I cited yesterday in a study on drug and explosive dogs "No target odors were present, and yet dogs positively indicated 85% of the time, handlers said, suggesting the dogs served as loyal companions first and objective scent detectors second".

Pavlovian classical conditioning could not be related to dogs scenting a corpse. The theory was tried to be in relation to humans to a work harder reward basis. Cadaver would and should not be classified as a reward based system.

[Rossb]

According to Grime...Grime does not know if Eddie has alerted to cadaver scent..grime says the bark suggests it.

You seem to be suggesting eddie is a totally reliable robot......which he cant be because he wasnt even trained on cadaver scent but dead piglet.

My view is Eddie barked to please his handler when he was called back several times....Grime was also anxious to build his business and may have overegged his claimns.you can disagree but its of no importance...SY and BKA are happy to ignore them. I can think of no other reason they would ignore them apart from the fact they are not reliable

Who even started the 'dogs dont lie' quote lol

[Rossb]

I think you need cites to support some of your declarations. I've bolded the ones which need cites.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.southyorks.police.uk/media/5551/20090062-response.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjli7_bzdP6AhURiVwKHUbiAkIQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0J7kodUap5PJptcg3l_qL4