Wandering Off Topic

[faithlilly]

Money, isn?t that what you always say when people give vague unsourced interviews to the media?  I didn?t accuse him of lying anyway, I said he lacks credibility and think he?s a batty conspiracy theorist, playing to an adoring audience of fellow conspiracy nuts.  This man is on record for believing Israel was behind the Salisbury poisonings fgs, of course he is a big supporter of Jeremy Corbyn too so enough said.
BTW, before you start throwing more insults my way perhaps you?d like to admit that you have been wrong about the 10.15pm alarm time for the last umpteen years?  I?ll count a few pigs as they fly past while I wait for that admission?

Except that the claim appeared on Murray?s blog not in a newspaper.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Except that the claim appeared on Murray?s blog not in a newspaper.

A blog which is monetised (I hope you?re up to date with your subscription, and are paying the maximum ?100 a month for such pearls of wisdom!)  But regardless, I wasn?t being wholly serious, as you apparently failed pick up on.  CM?s are of little or no interest to me, he?s entitled to his opinion but it doesn?t mean I have to respect it or pay it another thought.
Now, I guess from your now studiously avoiding the subject we shall hear no more nonsense from you about Gerry being Smithman going forward.  What else shall we talk about?

[faithlilly]

A blog which is monetised (I hope you?re up to date with your subscription, and are paying the maximum ?100 a month for such pearls of wisdom!)  But regardless, I wasn?t being wholly serious, as you apparently failed pick up on.  CM?s are of little or no interest to me, he?s entitled to his opinion but it doesn?t mean I have to respect it or pay it another thought.
Now, I guess from your now studiously avoiding the subject we shall hear no more nonsense from you about Gerry being Smithman going forward.  What else shall we talk about?

I didn?t say that Gerry was Smithman, Martin Smith and his wife did and they should know by dint of actually having been there at the time. Couple this with the lack of interest that the parents have ever shown in Smithman and this should raise doubts in even the most ardent of supporters.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I didn?t say that Gerry was Smithman, Martin Smith and his wife did and they should know by dint of actually having been there at the time. Couple this with the lack of interest that the parents have ever shown in Smithman and this should raise doubts in even the most ardent of supporters.

Firstly, we have never seen or heard a word from Mrs Smith, only got her husband?s word for it (don?t you think that?s a bit odd, and just a bit 19th Century?), secondly Martin Smith was not sure who he saw, but thought it might have been Gerry based on some tv footage he watched months after the event, thirdly, none of the rest of their party apparently agreed with him so his views were well outnumbered, fourthly, I thought the photofits he provided were commissioned by the McCanns themselves, when they were employing private detectives so obviously they were interested and even appeared in a live Crimewatch programme highlighting them, fifthly I have demonstrated using logic and common sense, (backed up by witness statements not provided by the Tapas 9) that it would have been virtually impossible for Gerry to have been Smithman (a conclusion shared by the police) and sixthly - given the ease with which you can disregard numerous witness statements of sightings in another case you follow I?m surprised (not really) that you still appear to be clinging to this one.  Time to come up with a new theory of parental involvement, perhaps one like ?death before 3rd  May? cos basically that?s all you?ve got left now.  See if you can convince us of that one instead.  Or perhaps if you really can?t bear to be parted with Smithman, you?d like to have a go at convincing me the alarm was raised much earlier than 10pm?

One thing I suppose we?ll never hear from you is an admission that your quarter past ten alarm theory was completely illogical, because you just hadn?t thought it through carefully enough.

[Uncle Jr]

What on earth would either side have to gain by lying about such a thing?  Not everything has to be lie you know, it could be a mix up, an error, a misunderstanding, which is a far more plausible explanation imo.

I think someone is stretching the truth, to put it mildly, but I couldn't tell you who or why.
I suppose if the McCann team admit that they've engaged with the HC Wolters and his team, then they would also be compelled to want to see the evidence, which starts a new media circus rolling.
Conversely, if Wolters has / had this 'concrete evidence', then surely that warrants more than popping a letter in the post to Kate and Gerry? Shouldn't it be an inter-judicial formal process of evidence disclosure?

Quite why both parties haven't formally engaged is beyond odd and I wonder what would have happened if CB had been convicted of the various charges last year and was still in custody.

[Uncle Jr]

I didn?t say that Gerry was Smithman, Martin Smith and his wife did and they should know by dint of actually having been there at the time. Couple this with the lack of interest that the parents have ever shown in Smithman and this should raise doubts in even the most ardent of supporters.

Martin Smith also stated, when pressed, that the man he saw was not CB, as I recall.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Martin Smith also stated, when pressed, that the man he saw was not CB, as I recall.

I don't recall that, where did you read that?  Not that I believe for one moment it was CB that the Smiths saw.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think someone is stretching the truth, to put it mildly, but I couldn't tell you who or why.
I suppose if the McCann team admit that they've engaged with the HC Wolters and his team, then they would also be compelled to want to see the evidence, which starts a new media circus rolling.
Conversely, if Wolters has / had this 'concrete evidence', then surely that warrants more than popping a letter in the post to Kate and Gerry? Shouldn't it be an inter-judicial formal process of evidence disclosure?

Quite why both parties haven't formally engaged is beyond odd and I wonder what would have happened if CB had been convicted of the various charges last year and was still in custody.

I think this letter thing happened in the midst of the pandemic at a time when travel was restricted which might be one reason.  Of course this was all nearly 6 years ago so who knows what contact there has actually been between the two parties since then.  And I'm not sure the police are duty bound tho share any evidence they have with victims' families, though morally one would hope and expect they would.   It would seem that the evidence they haven't shared publicly is very likely to be circumstantial leaving the McCanns a sliver of hope that it is not definitive and that there is still a possibility that there daughter is alive. 

[Uncle Jr]

I think this letter thing happened in the midst of the pandemic at a time when travel was restricted which might be one reason.  Of course this was all nearly 6 years ago so who knows what contact there has actually been between the two parties since then.  And I'm not sure the police are duty bound tho share any evidence they have with victims' families, though morally one would hope and expect they would.   It would seem that the evidence they haven't shared publicly is very likely to be circumstantial leaving the McCanns a sliver of hope that it is not definitive and that there is still a possibility that there daughter is alive.

I would be inclined to agree if it weren't for the definitive and demonstrative descriptors Wolters used - 'we have evidence which shows paedophile the abducted and killed MM' and 'strong enough for prosecutors to be convinced'.
As you say, it would be immoral to not share, or at least offer to share, such seemingly conclusive evidence.

I think Kate and Gerry should have explored this avenue more, no stone unturned and all that. Perhaps they have and were unconvinced. Who knows?

[Uncle Jr]

I don't recall that, where did you read that?  Not that I believe for one moment it was CB that the Smiths saw.

I'll have to research it, as I have a vague recollection. He was asked by a journalist or an interviewer whether he recognised CB as the man he saw.


Found it
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11964573/madeleine-mccann-witness-christian-b/

[kizzy]

I can't prove it's not true anymore than you can prove it's true.  It's just hearsay, no names mentioned, nothing more than gossip from a man who despises the British government and the establishment.  Frankly I'm not really that interested in whether or not it's true, if it's true, well then that's hardly the McCanns' fault is it, unless you think the British government was acting on their orders, which I know some people seem to think they have that sort of power and influence, the loons.

Well it seems your long winded posts were trying to distort the truth considering franlk your not interested then.

Although I couldn't care less whether your interested in my posts or not...... Craig Murry told the truth.

Also from elsewhere


THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE WHO RUSHED OUT TO PRAIA DA LUZ AFTER 3 MAY 2007 AND BY FRIDAY 11 MAY 2007 


This summarises a list of those known to have rushed out to Praia da Luz after 3 May 2007 (or on the case of Resonate and Robert Murat, BEFORE then). Dates of arrival given where known, all before Thursday May 10 unless otherwise stated:


Government officials


Robert Henderson ? British Consul for the Algarve ? immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)


John Buck ? British Ambassador to Portugal (Lisbon), arrived immediately


Angela Morado ? British Proconsul, arrived immediately   


Liz Dow, British Consul rom the Embassy in Lisbon, arrived immediately


Andy Bowes, British Embassy Press Officer, arrived immediately   


Sheree Dodd, Foreign and Commonwealth Office


Other staff from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office   


British Police Officers


Glen Power, British Police Liaison Officer for Portugal, arrived 5 May


An ?Analyst? (unnamed)  from the National Policing Improvements Agency, arrived 4 May


Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small, Leicestershire Police


Two other police ?family liaison? officers from Leicestershire Police 


Government security and secret service personnel

Others


?Hugh? ? Kate in her book says he would only identify himself as ?Hugh?, he was brought in by Control Risks Group and said he was ?a former intelligence officer, now a kidnap negotiator and counsellor?. He attended meeting with the lawyers from IFLG


OTHER APPOINTMENTS


Clarence Mitchell, Head of the government?s Media Monitoring Unit: According to the reply to a Freedom of Information request, he was appointed on Sunday 6 May to head up the government?s PR support for the McCanns, but he did not travel to Portugal until 22 May 2007


The government set up a very high-powered liaison committee on Tuesday 8 May under the Chairmanship of Matt Baggott, Leicestershire Police Chief Constable. It consisted of representatives from a wide variety of government departments and agencies. The government has refused to answer FoIAct questions about who those agencies were.


Government Ministers Gordon Brown (Chancellor of the Exchequer) and Margaret Beckett (Foreign Secretary) spoke to Gerry McCann in the first week. Tony Blair, Prime Minister, did so later.


Literally hundreds of international journalists were also there in that first week.     




The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and ...

[Vertigo Swirl]

I'll have to research it, as I have a vague recollection. He was asked by a journalist or an interviewer whether he recognised CB as the man he saw.


Found it
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11964573/madeleine-mccann-witness-christian-b/

Thanks.  The thing is he only thought it was Gerry from the way the man carried a child so as he?s never seen CB carry a child and the sighting was many years previously I don?t see how he can say with any certainty it wasn?t him. 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Well it seems your long winded posts were trying to distort the truth considering franlk your not interested then.

Although I couldn't care less whether your interested in my posts or not...... Craig Murry told the truth.

Also from elsewhere


THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE WHO RUSHED OUT TO PRAIA DA LUZ AFTER 3 MAY 2007 AND BY FRIDAY 11 MAY 2007 


This summarises a list of those known to have rushed out to Praia da Luz after 3 May 2007 (or on the case of Resonate and Robert Murat, BEFORE then). Dates of arrival given where known, all before Thursday May 10 unless otherwise stated:


Government officials


Robert Henderson ? British Consul for the Algarve ? immediate (persuaded Portuguese Police to allow the McCanns to wash clothes before seizing them)


John Buck ? British Ambassador to Portugal (Lisbon), arrived immediately


Angela Morado ? British Proconsul, arrived immediately   


Liz Dow, British Consul rom the Embassy in Lisbon, arrived immediately


Andy Bowes, British Embassy Press Officer, arrived immediately   


Sheree Dodd, Foreign and Commonwealth Office


Other staff from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office   


British Police Officers


Glen Power, British Police Liaison Officer for Portugal, arrived 5 May


An ?Analyst? (unnamed)  from the National Policing Improvements Agency, arrived 4 May


Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small, Leicestershire Police


Two other police ?family liaison? officers from Leicestershire Police 


Government security and secret service personnel

Others


?Hugh? ? Kate in her book says he would only identify himself as ?Hugh?, he was brought in by Control Risks Group and said he was ?a former intelligence officer, now a kidnap negotiator and counsellor?. He attended meeting with the lawyers from IFLG


OTHER APPOINTMENTS


Clarence Mitchell, Head of the government?s Media Monitoring Unit: According to the reply to a Freedom of Information request, he was appointed on Sunday 6 May to head up the government?s PR support for the McCanns, but he did not travel to Portugal until 22 May 2007


The government set up a very high-powered liaison committee on Tuesday 8 May under the Chairmanship of Matt Baggott, Leicestershire Police Chief Constable. It consisted of representatives from a wide variety of government departments and agencies. The government has refused to answer FoIAct questions about who those agencies were.


Government Ministers Gordon Brown (Chancellor of the Exchequer) and Margaret Beckett (Foreign Secretary) spoke to Gerry McCann in the first week. Tony Blair, Prime Minister, did so later.


Literally hundreds of international journalists were also there in that first week.     




The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and ...

Your wholehearted belief in Craig Murray is quite touching. So what conclusions do you draw from this government interference as far as the McCanns are concerned?  Why are we even discussing it now?  I mean when all is said and done, SO WHAT?

[Vertigo Swirl]

I would be inclined to agree if it weren't for the definitive and demonstrative descriptors Wolters used - 'we have evidence which shows paedophile the abducted and killed MM' and 'strong enough for prosecutors to be convinced'.
As you say, it would be immoral to not share, or at least offer to share, such seemingly conclusive evidence.

I think Kate and Gerry should have explored this avenue more, no stone unturned and all that. Perhaps they have and were unconvinced. Who knows?

The fact that they haven?t apparently wholeheartedly embraced the German investigation and concluded that Madeleine must have died at the hands of the police?s key suspect is a difficult one for McCann sceptics to explain (along with a myriad other aspects of this case such as how they carried out such a brazen crime in the first place). 

[Wonderfulspam]

In order to believe that Christian Brueckner abducted Maddie, one must believe that prior to & after succesfully abducting & abusing the object of his overwhelming desire, he never abducted & raped anymore young children, even though he was apparently really good at it, since no other missing children can be linked to him. No, he just went back to selling weed & wanking himself off. After Maddie, he just lost interest in abducting & raping little girls. Took up golf or something. Who knows? Anyway. The main thing is, he wasn't identified abducting Maddie, whereas Gerry was. So it seems more likely the McCanns did it really.