Wandering Off Topic

[Vertigo Swirl]

Yes, I will have to get round to reading them, Faith!

The only witness statement Faith believes is accurate is Gerry?s when he says Kate left the table at 10.03pm and raised the alarm about 10 minutes later.  What she has repeatedly failed to understand is that if Gerry knew that Kate left the table at 10.03pm it means he was sat at that table at that time and therefore there is no way he could have walked past the Smiths, found a suitable bin to dump a body in and get back to the table in 3 minutes. 
You need to look at all the witness statements holistically and when you dismiss the outliers which were obviously incorrect what you are left with is the vast majority putting the alarm being raised at 10pm or shortly thereafter. 

[Joe Blogs]

The only witness statement Faith believes is accurate is Gerry?s when he says Kate left the table at 10.03pm and raised the alarm about 10 minutes later.  What she has repeatedly failed to understand is that if Gerry knew that Kate left the table at 10.03pm it means he was sat at that table at that time and therefore there is no way he could have walked past the Smiths, found a suitable bin to dump a body in and get back to the table in 3 minutes. 
You need to look at all the witness statements holistically and when you dismiss the outliers which were obviously incorrect what you are left with is the vast majority putting the alarm being raised at 10pm or shortly thereafter.

OK, will do, Vertigo!

[Vertigo Swirl]

OK, will do, Vertigo!

You should also read Kate?s book in which she describes what time she went back to the apartment (10pm) and exactly what she did when she got there and how long it took to do it (measured in seconds, not minutes).  From this and taken with the witness statements, especially the following from staff not in the immediate vicinity we can work out that the alarm had certainly been raised well before 10.15pm

- About 22.15 Owner of "Duque de Holanda" Bar J. O. W. was working in her bar when some employee who she cannot identify (but whom she knows works for Mark Warner) informed them that a girl had disappeared from the OC.

- At about 22.17 Hotel manager E. L. K. received a call from L.J., the Creche Manager, informing her that the girl had gone missing. She met L.J. and the Service Manager, A.T., near to the Tapas Bar and they initiated the "Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child".

- Charlotte Penningtons witness statement:
On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy";



From this statement from a resident who was very precise in her timing we can see that the alarm had not yet been raised at 10pm

- M. M. M. d. S. declares that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58 - she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;

. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend's apartment was located;

. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;

. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;

She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;

. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;

. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;

[Joe Blogs]

You should also read Kate?s book in which she describes what time she went back to the apartment (10pm) and exactly what she did when she got there and how long it took to do it (measured in seconds, not minutes).  From this and taken with the witness statements, especially the following from staff not in the immediate vicinity we can work out that the alarm had certainly been raised well before 10.15pm

- About 22.15 Owner of "Duque de Holanda" Bar J. O. W. was working in her bar when some employee who she cannot identify (but whom she knows works for Mark Warner) informed them that a girl had disappeared from the OC.

- At about 22.17 Hotel manager E. L. K. received a call from L.J., the Creche Manager, informing her that the girl had gone missing. She met L.J. and the Service Manager, A.T., near to the Tapas Bar and they initiated the "Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child".

- Charlotte Penningtons witness statement:
On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy";



From this statement from a resident who was very precise in her timing we can see that the alarm had not yet been raised at 10pm

- M. M. M. d. S. declares that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58 - she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;

. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend's apartment was located;

. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;

. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;

She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;

. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;

. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;

Thanks for the info, Vertigo! I'm not very fond of reading books.
Has Ghislaine Maxwell been discussed as a suspect?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Thanks for the info, Vertigo! I'm not very fond of reading books.
Has Ghislaine Maxwell been discussed as a suspect?

What do you not like about reading books?  I find it hard to take anyone seriously who doesn?t like reading books!
Why do you think Ghislaine Maxwell might be involved ?  She has been discussed as a suspect (not on here afaik) on account of what was once referred to as the Victoria Beckham suspect and people now realising the drawing looks much more like GM but let?s not go down that road, it?s a bridge too far in silliness.  Let?s keep on track and focus on why Gerry McCann could not be Smithman.

[Joe Blogs]

What do you not like about reading books?  I find it hard to take anyone seriously who doesn?t like reading books!
Why do you think Ghislaine Maxwell might be involved ?  She has been discussed as a suspect (not on here afaik) on account of what was once referred to as the Victoria Beckham suspect and people now realising the drawing looks much more like GM but let?s not go down that road, it?s a bridge too far in silliness.  Let?s keep on track and focus on why Gerry McCann could not be Smithman.

Ha ha! You are a hard task master, Vertigo! I just dont like reading books and thats that.
As for the Beckham E-fit, surely in your case it should be does it look more like 'Breukner'  than Maxwell, seeing you think he was the one carrying Maddie? In which case the E-fit most certainly looks more like Maxwell in my opinion.
In fact I would say the E-fit certainly looks feminine anyway, and also more like Maxwell then Gerry too!
Who gave the Beckham E-fit evidence anyway? I thought it was to do with a women who was seen in the complex a few days before the disappearance?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Ha ha! You are a hard task master, Vertigo! I just dont like reading books and thats that.
As for the Beckham E-fit, surely in your case it should be does it look more like 'Breukner'  than Maxwell, seeing you think he was the one carrying Maddie? In which case the E-fit most certainly looks more like Maxwell in my opinion.
In fact I would say the E-fit certainly looks feminine anyway, and also more like Maxwell then Gerry too!
Who gave the Beckham E-fit evidence anyway? I thought it was to do with a women who was seen in the complex a few days before the disappearance?

You?ve gone off on a wild tangent.  The Victoria Beckham e-fit is nothing to do with the Smith sighting, it was given by a witness who saw some woman in Barcelona asking have you got my daughter and chatting about waiting for a special delivery or some such.  I think you should do a lot more research before asking any more daft questions, frankly. Sorry to be such a hard taskmaster but to be blunt you are just muddying the waters of this discussion.

[kizzy]

What do you not like about reading books?  I find it hard to take anyone seriously who doesn?t like reading books!
Why do you think it?s a bridge too far in silliness. might be involved ?  She has been discussed as a suspect (not on here afaik) on account of what was once referred to as the Victoria Beckham suspect and people now realising the drawing looks much more like GM but let?s not go down that road, it?s a bridge too far in silliness.  Let?s keep on track and focus on why Gerry McCann could not be Smithman.

it?s a bridge too far in silliness.

Not like you -  to not take a suspect seriously..........especially when its not the mccs.

Or is it ...it could make sense why kmc knew she had been kidnapped and why she said they have taken her.

All speculation.......... but it was said ...there has always been something odd about this case.

Seems it could also mean the mccs do know what happened to Maddie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdXK2ll-tMw&t=12s

[Joe Blogs]

You?ve gone off on a wild tangent.  The Victoria Beckham e-fit is nothing to do with the Smith sighting, it was given by a witness who saw some woman in Barcelona asking have you got my daughter and chatting about waiting for a special delivery or some such.  I think you should do a lot more research before asking any more daft questions, frankly. Sorry to be such a hard taskmaster but to be blunt you are just muddying the waters of this discussion.

Oh well, I will do some more research then, Vertigo!
But wait a minute! Why were you comparing the Beckham E-fit to Gerry if it had nothing to do with the Smith sighting?

[Vertigo Swirl]

it?s a bridge too far in silliness.

Not like you -  to not take a suspect seriously..........especially when its not the mccs.

Or is it ...it could make sense why kmc knew she had been kidnapped and why she said they have taken her.

All speculation.......... but it was said ...there has always been something odd about this case.

Seems it could also mean the mccs do know what happened to Maddie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdXK2ll-tMw&t=12s

As it has been proven Ghislaine Maxwell was not in Barcelona at the time I think we can rule her out, or should we ignore that fact and carry on discussing that particular ridiculous theory?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Oh well, I will do some more research then, Vertigo!
But wait a minute! Why were you comparing the Beckham E-fit to Gerry if it had nothing to do with the Smith sighting?

What are you talking about?

[kizzy]

As it has been proven Ghislaine Maxwell was not in Barcelona at the time I think we can rule her out, or should we ignore that fact and carry on discussing that particular ridiculous theory?

Ghislaine Maxwell was not in Barcelona at the time I think we can rule her out,

What are you talking about...........Barcelona....what's that got to do with anything

She was in Portugal........and visited often

[Vertigo Swirl]

Ghislaine Maxwell was not in Barcelona at the time I think we can rule her out,

What are you talking about...........Barcelona....what's that got to do with anything

She was in Portugal........and visited often

LOL.  I think you need to brush up on your research too dear, here let me help
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/aug/06/victoria-beckham-lookalike-madeleine-mccann
Back in the good ol? days when the efit was described as a Victoria Beckham lookalike

[Joe Blogs]

it?s a bridge too far in silliness.

Not like you -  to not take a suspect seriously..........especially when its not the mccs.

Or is it ...it could make sense why kmc knew she had been kidnapped and why she said they have taken her.

All speculation.......... but it was said ...there has always been something odd about this case.

Seems it could also mean the mccs do know what happened to Maddie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdXK2ll-tMw&t=12s

Thanks Kizzy! Does Maxwell seem like a possibility to you?

[Joe Blogs]

There's certainly a fair bit of interest in the Ghislaine Maxwell/Epstein angle floating about on the web at the moment!
So what have we got?
An E-fit from from 2009 and an apparent sighting of Maxwell and Maddie also in 2009!
Now the E-fit was in relation to a woman in Barcelona in 2007 acting suspicious a few days after the disappearance, I don't know when it became apparent that the E-fit resembled Maxwell?? Although not at the time I presume, else it would have been referred to as the 'Maxwell E-fit' and not the 'Beckham E-fit' surely?
So, next we have the Maxwell/Maddie sighting in 2009 according to one of the Epstein files, although the location has been redacted!
So, is it just coincidence that an Epstein file has been unearthed claiming that Ghislaine Maxwell was seen in 2009 with Maddie and that the 2007 Barcelona sighting produced an E-fit with a striking resemblance to Maxwell?
Two separate witness statements/sightings two years apart which seem to be pointing to the same person!
The thing is, the witness from the Epstein files doesn't seem to have been influenced by the 'Beckham E-fit' do they? It seems no one even considered a resemblance to Maxwell or pointed it out until recently?
So basically what we have could be two sightings of Ghislaine Maxwell two years apart by two separate witnesses!
But if Maddie was still alive in 2009, where had she been living? Was she with Maxwell all that time, for two years?
The thing is, Maddie would have been almost six by then, did she think Maxwell was her mother? Where was she going to school? Was she having a normal life? Is there any evidence that Maxwell brought up any children?
One things for sure, Maddie isn't with Maxwell now! So where is she?
Could she be living on her own now? After all, she must be about 22years old by now!
Oh well, thats quite a blether from me, I better stop now!