David Payne and his visit to the McCann's apartment hours before Madeleine disappeared.

[G-Unit]

I have probably mixed with more men than most women during my husband's years in the military. I worked with them, socialised with them and sometimes mothered them. On a beach or by a pool none of them would remember if they saw a woman wrapped in a towel because it wouldn't be unusual.

If they visited me, their friend's wife, and I answered the door wearing a towel they would notice immediately and apologise for getting me out of the shower or bath. So would a female visitor. I would guess most people's reaction would be the same, even yours. It's the social context Alfie, not the sex of the observer.

If you can remember if the children were standing or sitting it's peculiar if you don't remember that their mother was in the shower when you arrived. The police interviewer seems to have shared the view of the majority on here, hence his question as to what Kate was wearing.

[Alfie]

I have probably mixed with more men than most women during my husband's years in the military. I worked with them, socialised with them and sometimes mothered them. On a beach or by a pool none of them would remember if they saw a woman wrapped in a towel because it wouldn't be unusual.

If they visited me, their friend's wife, and I answered the door wearing a towel they would notice immediately and apologise for getting me out of the shower or bath. So would a female visitor. I would guess most people's reaction would be the same, even yours. It's the social context Alfie, not the sex of the observer.

If you can remember if the children were standing or sitting it's peculiar if you don't remember that their mother was in the shower when you arrived. The police interviewer seems to have shared the view of the majority on here, hence his question as to what Kate was wearing.

So you ARE an expert on male behaviour, but claim it's got nothing to do with the sex of the observer anyway.  OK then.   So David Payne is what then, in your view?  Stupid?  Forgetful?  Mendacious?  Socially inept?  Or are you as usual not going to proffer any opinion, and just be content to float the suspicion  that "something's not quite right" ? 

[Carana]

I've listened another 3 times & I'm not convinced you are right.
If I'm mishearing what GM said, what chance for a Portuguese translator in a full interview?

I heard the same as Pegasus, Misty. :)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if some misunderstandings crept in - particularly in the beginning - due to the accents and the use of slang. (And that's without even counting the effect of anxiety and tiredness, or the potential for misunderstandings simply due to the 3-way nature of the interviews.)

It's one thing to be able to decipher a written text in another language, and often quite another to understand someone talking.

[Carana]

If there were significant mistakes the witnesses wouldnt have said ok Ill sign

We don't know whether the translators read back every word to them or summarised the gist. They were signing on the dotted line in what may as well have been Chinese.

[Robittybob1]

So you ARE an expert on male behaviour, but claim it's got nothing to do with the sex of the observer anyway.  OK then.   So David Payne is what then, in your view?  Stupid?  Forgetful?  Mendacious?  Socially inept?  Or are you as usual not going to proffer any opinion, and just be content to float the suspicion  that "something's not quite right" ? 

Well tell us how we handle the situation where the friends become suspects, how do we discuss them?  If everything we say will be deemed libel how do we discuss the topics that need to be raised?

[slartibartfast]

I have probably mixed with more men than most women during my husband's years in the military. I worked with them, socialised with them and sometimes mothered them. On a beach or by a pool none of them would remember if they saw a woman wrapped in a towel because it wouldn't be unusual.

If they visited me, their friend's wife, and I answered the door wearing a towel they would notice immediately and apologise for getting me out of the shower or bath. So would a female visitor. I would guess most people's reaction would be the same, even yours. It's the social context Alfie, not the sex of the observer.

If you can remember if the children were standing or sitting it's peculiar if you don't remember that their mother was in the shower when you arrived. The police interviewer seems to have shared the view of the majority on here, hence his question as to what Kate was wearing.

That is it. Normal human reaction.

[Robittybob1]

That is it. Normal human reaction.

Somewhere he describes the kids as angels but doesn't notice that Kate is wearing just a towel.  There seems to be something a little suspect in his attention/affection but I just can't put my finger on it.

[Alfie]

Well tell us how we handle the situation where the friends become suspects, how do we discuss them?  If everything we say will be deemed libel how do we discuss the topics that need to be raised?

Don't ask me, ask the forum owner.  Libel is apparently not permitted.

[Robittybob1]

Don't ask me, ask the forum owner.  Libel is apparently not permitted.

And who is that?  I have found you have to meet the requirements of the many moderators as well, even though it is quite lenient over all.  It is actually a very good discussion forum. 

[Alfie]

I have probably mixed with more men than most women during my husband's years in the military. I worked with them, socialised with them and sometimes mothered them. On a beach or by a pool none of them would remember if they saw a woman wrapped in a towel because it wouldn't be unusual.

If they visited me, their friend's wife, and I answered the door wearing a towel they would notice immediately and apologise for getting me out of the shower or bath. So would a female visitor. I would guess most people's reaction would be the same, even yours. It's the social context Alfie, not the sex of the observer.

If you can remember if the children were standing or sitting it's peculiar if you don't remember that their mother was in the shower when you arrived. The police interviewer seems to have shared the view of the majority on here, hence his question as to what Kate was wearing.

The police office first asks:

00:41:00 1485 "Okay, so now what I'm gonna try and ask you to recollect, what everybody was wearing.'

To which David Payne replies he cannot really, is a bit vague.  The interviewer prompts him: but you can, for example, remember what Kate was wearing?  to which he again replies he can't. 

It seems to me that the interviewer was simply trying to get a handle on how much detail DP could remember of that evening many months previously, not to test the extent of DP's lasciviousness. .  The fact that he couldn't remember specifics is now being used to imply something rather unsavoury IMO.

[pathfinder73]

The last time he saw Madeleine only hours before she was reported missing and nothing corroborates with the other witness except they were both there. Wow!

[Alfie]

The last time he saw Madeleine only hours before she was reported missing and nothing corroborates with the other witness except they were both there. Wow!

Quite a few things corroborate actually.  He confirms Kate and that all three  children were in the apartment alone at that time, which I would say was the most important detail. 

[G-Unit]

So you ARE an expert on male behaviour, but claim it's got nothing to do with the sex of the observer anyway.  OK then.   So David Payne is what then, in your view?  Stupid?  Forgetful?  Mendacious?  Socially inept?  Or are you as usual not going to proffer any opinion, and just be content to float the suspicion  that "something's not quite right" ? 

The Brits are famed for apologising, even for apologising to someone who bumps into them! It would be normal for most people in David Payne's shoes to apologise for interrupting someone's shower. It would be normal for the other person to respond to the apology, probably to say it was OK as they'd finished anyway. Most people involved would probably remember. All that is my opinion.

Because my opinion is that most people would have remembered, the fact that David Payne didn't confirm Kate's account leads me to wonder why. I can think of three possible explanations;

The visit didn't happen.
The visit happened and Kate was fully clothed.
The visit happened, Kate was in a towel and David Payne either forgot or didn't wish to mention it.

To be fair, David Payne's rog interview is interesting mainly because of how much he can't remember. In common with Kate and Fiona he wasn't interviewed on or around 10th May like most other members of the group.

[pathfinder73]

Quite a few things corroborate actually.  He confirms Kate and that all three  children were in the apartment alone at that time, which I would say was the most important detail.

No important details corroborate so why should I believe anything is the truth?

1st Witness - Outside

2nd Witness - Definitely Inside

1st Witness - 30 seconds

2nd Witness - 3-5 minutes

1st Witness - Wearing a towel

2nd Witness - Can't remember what she was wearing.

1st Witness - Arrived to take kids out

2nd Witness - To do a check on Kate & the kids

1485 "Okay, and it was at what point that Gerry said to you go and, would you mind checking at Kate''
 Reply "Well I mean coming back from the beach I'd got no equipment to play tennis you know, etcetera, so I had to go back to my room to you know change into stuff appropriate for playing tennis in, and err so he knew that I'd walk up that by and past so he said oh why don't you err, you know can you just pop in on the way, the way up, so it was on the way back from me picking the stuff up.'
1485 "Right, so you've walked past, you've walked past Gerry's apartment to get to yours.'
 Reply "Mm.'
1485 "Got changed''
 Reply "No, you know it was, again whether it was, in my mind it was on the way up that I'd popped in to Kate but it could have been on the way back, again, I'm sorry.'
1485 "No, it's okay.'
 Reply "For my vagueness.'

What a muddle 

p.s. David Payne was wearing shorts on CCTV. So what did he wear to play tennis?

[Alfie]

The Brits are famed for apologising, even for apologising to someone who bumps into them! It would be normal for most people in David Payne's shoes to apologise for interrupting someone's shower. It would be normal for the other person to respond to the apology, probably to say it was OK as they'd finished anyway. Most people involved would probably remember. All that is my opinion.

Because my opinion is that most people would have remembered, the fact that David Payne didn't confirm Kate's account leads me to wonder why. I can think of three possible explanations;

The visit didn't happen.
The visit happened and Kate was fully clothed.
The visit happened, Kate was in a towel and David Payne either forgot or didn't wish to mention it.

Ro be fair, David Payne's rog interview is interesting mainly because of how much he can't remember. In common with Kate and Fiona he wasn't interviewed on or around 10th May most other members of the group.

David Payne didn't interrupt her shower, she had already finished by the time he knocked.  When you're staying at a resort, with pool, spa, sports facilities etc you tend to take more showers than you would at home.  I have had 2 today already, maybe a 3rd by bedtime.  Too much information I know, but funnily enough I am currently wrapped in a towel.  It's not an uncommon sight when you're on holiday.  Should one of my acquaintances or room service knock on the door to ask me a question, I doubt they'd remember my attire many months later, but perhaps this would only prove their lack of Britishness.... &%+((£