Was the translation process a limiting factor in the Maddie case?

[Mr Gray]

"With all formal witness statements, the interview is read over and its contents explained. After having shown their agreement with their statements, the interviewee confirms and signs as accurate the content of the document that follows, conjointly with the "sworn" interpreter, where one is used. This is normal procedure in all formal interviews. In co-signing, the interpreter commits themself legally concerning the accuracy of their translation."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

So the witness signs to say the content is accurate and the interpreter to say the translation is accurate. Quite a strong motive for the interpreter to be sure it's correct because they have a legal obligation.

Each interpreter used had to make a statement in court;

From the Lagos Court


Report via Fax to PJ Portimao of the interpreters indicated above with address and phone number.

Summon them by the quickest means for their statement of compromise.

Ask the PJ to provide via Fax the names, addresses, phone numbers of the interpreters mentioned on the previous page.

Afterwards contact them for their statement of compromise in this Court within a maximum delay of 46 hours, according to article 91, number 2 of the CPP:


A list of those used early on;



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/interpreters.htm

When you go into hospital for surgery you will sign a form saying the treatment has been explained and you understand it. What legal weight do you think that signature carries.

I know the answer...do you

[slartibartfast]

When you go into hospital for surgery you will sign a form saying the treatment has been explained and you understand it. What legal weight do you think that signature carries.

I know the answer...do you

Well we know what happens if you don't sign...

[Mr Gray]

Well we know what happens if you don't sign...

so you dont know the answer

[stephen25000]

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[G-Unit]

When you go into hospital for surgery you will sign a form saying the treatment has been explained and you understand it. What legal weight do you think that signature carries.

I know the answer...do you

Are you comparing signing a permission form in a UK Hospital to signing a witness statement in a Portuguese police i inquiry?

Could you explain the similarities and differences between the purposes of the signatures and the similarities and differences in the legal systems of the two countries?

[slartibartfast]

so you dont know the answer

You imply the consent signature has no value yet you will not get surgical treatment without it. Or are you talking dental forms.

[Robittybob1]

....
A list of those used early on;



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/interpreters.htm

Were they able to work out what that last interpreter's name was?

[Robittybob1]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

"With all formal witness statements, the interview is read over and its contents explained. After having shown their agreement with their statements, the interviewee confirms and signs as accurate the content of the document that follows, conjointly with the "sworn" interpreter, where one is used. This is normal procedure in all formal interviews. In co-signing, the interpreter commits themself legally concerning the accuracy of their translation."

If the original statement was written in English then translated into Portuguese and both the translation and the original signed that would be better than the verbal English statement being translated into a written Portuguese statement.

[G-Unit]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htmIf the original statement was written in English then translated into Portuguese and both the translation and the original signed that would be better than the verbal English statement being translated into a written Portuguese statement.

Maybe, but CRG took statements in English, wrote them down in English and still made mistakes according to Kate. Unless, of course, she forgot what she actually said. It was 'many months' before she spotted the mistakes. It depends on the type of mistake.

If she said 'the children had high tea at the Tapas each day and we collected them at 5.30pm' and the written statement said 6,30pm that's clearly a factual mistake by CRG,

If the CRG statement said 'Madeleine asked why we didn't come to the bedroom when the twins cried' Kate may have thought that was a CRG mistake, but that story seems to have changed over time. The question is which version did Kate give to CRG on 13th May 200?

4th May 2007
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

6th September 2007
Regarding the fact that Madeleine on the next morning, Thursday, during breakfast said to both of them that she had been crying and that nobody had come to her room,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Kate's book
‘Why didn’t you come when Sean and I cried last night?’
Madeleine by Kate McCann

[Robittybob1]

Maybe, but CRG took statements in English, wrote them down in English and still made mistakes according to Kate. Unless, of course, she forgot what she actually said. It was 'many months' before she spotted the mistakes. It depends on the type of mistake.

If she said 'the children had high tea at the Tapas each day and we collected them at 5.30pm' and the written statement said 6,30pm that's clearly a factual mistake by CRG,

If the CRG statement said 'Madeleine asked why we didn't come to the bedroom when the twins cried' Kate may have thought that was a CRG mistake, but that story seems to have changed over time. The question is which version did Kate give to CRG on 13th May 200?

4th May 2007
She reports only one episode where, on the morning of Thursday May 3rd, Madeleine asked the interviewee why she had not come to look in the bedroom when the twins were crying.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

6th September 2007
Regarding the fact that Madeleine on the next morning, Thursday, during breakfast said to both of them that she had been crying and that nobody had come to her room,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Kate's book
‘Why didn’t you come when Sean and I cried last night?’
Madeleine by Kate McCann

Do we have access to the statements taken by the Control Risks Group?

[G-Unit]

Do we have access to the statements taken by the Control Risks Group?

No.

No comment on the ever changing story of the crying then? Mistranslations? Misunderstandings? A demonstration of forgetfulness? Gerry couldn't remember who cried either;

4th May 2007
when Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying. As he did not hear anything, the witness did not go to the bedroom,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

10th May 2007
MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

[Robittybob1]

No.

No comment on the ever changing story of the crying then? Mistranslations? Misunderstandings? A demonstration of forgetfulness? Gerry couldn't remember who cried either;

4th May 2007
when Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying. As he did not hear anything, the witness did not go to the bedroom,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

10th May 2007
MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

The parents were interpreting something Madeleine had said to them about the night before, something they weren't aware of.   They may not have even really understood Madeleine so it is easy to forget, and hard to be sure what was said.  Well that is how I understand it.

[stephen25000]

The parents were interpreting something Madeleine had said to them about the night before, something they weren't aware of.   They may not have even really understood Madeleine so it is easy to forget, and hard to be sure what was said.  Well that is how I understand it.

?

[misty]

No.

No comment on the ever changing story of the crying then? Mistranslations? Misunderstandings? A demonstration of forgetfulness? Gerry couldn't remember who cried either;

4th May 2007
when Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying. As he did not hear anything, the witness did not go to the bedroom,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

10th May 2007
MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Each statement refers to Madeleine crying. The discrepancies you highlight are due to omission either by KM or the translator. The primary fact does not alter.
How could either parent have actually heard the crying if they weren't in the apartment at the time?

[Mr Gray]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htmIf the original statement was written in English then translated into Portuguese and both the translation and the original signed that would be better than the verbal English statement being translated into a written Portuguese statement.

#of course it would and a competent police force would have the english statement