Was the translation process a limiting factor in the Maddie case?

[Alice Purjorick]

Please note that both my earlier post and Shinings have been wiped.  Why ?  Both posts were valid to this thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

A couple of days ago I pointed out that some of the translators / interpreters were members of the 3A's forum.  (This forum was obscenely against The Mccanns, and was backing the PJ in an extreme and acidic way towards The Mccanns.) 

Shining challenged me to prove that some of the translators were on the 3A's forum. 

After some time searching, I have found the evidence.  Just two examples below.

58 to 65 Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy 2007.05.04
Processo 01  Pages 58 to 65


http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm Translated by Anna Esse / Albym 



34 to 41 Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann 2007.05.04
TRANSLATION BY INES/ALBYM
 
Processos Vol I Pages 34  to 39


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Translated by Ines / Albym

I have only given two examples, but rather important ones.


I actually quite liked Ines and Albym, generally they seemed very involved in trying to sleuth out what actually happened, rather than abusing The Mccanns ... rather like our Pegasus


But Anna Esse was another kettle of fish.  Really acidic and extremely against The Mccanns to the nth degree IMO.

Could such a person be unbiased?

Is she from the Essene Jewish sect?



Was it Ok that people so set against The Mccanns and so for The PJ should have been used for translation / interpretation?  Were they officially bona-fide interpreters or just folk with a linguistic ability?  Some biased.

All the translators used by McCannFiles are listed in here:
Right at the top.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap4
The interpreters used by the police are recorded in each witness statement.

So in the case of Kate Healy's 04/052007 14:20 statement who is being accused of jiggery pokery and by whom. We'll skate gently around the why.
Ines, Anna Esse or Natália Carvalho Ferreira de Almeida or anyone else?

[Robittybob1]

All the translators used by McCannFiles are listed in here:
Right at the top.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap4
The interpreters used by the police are recorded in each witness statement.

So in the case of Kate Healy's 04/052007 14:20 statement who is being accused of jiggery pokery and by whom. We'll skate gently around the why.
Ines, Anna Esse or Natália Carvalho Ferreira de Almeida or anyone else?

Natália Carvalho Ferreira de Almeida is the interpreter in Portugal.

[Alice Purjorick]

Natália Carvalho Ferreira de Almeida is the interpreter in Portugal.

Considering she was the the interpreter used by the Portuguese police for the interview with Kate McCann on 04/05/2007 at 14:20 I do not find that much of a revelation.

[G-Unit]

Please note that both my earlier post and Shinings have been wiped.  Why ?  Both posts were valid to this thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

A couple of days ago I pointed out that some of the translators / interpreters were members of the 3A's forum.  (This forum was obscenely against The Mccanns, and was backing the PJ in an extreme and acidic way towards The Mccanns.) 

Shining challenged me to prove that some of the translators were on the 3A's forum. 

After some time searching, I have found the evidence.  Just two examples below.

58 to 65 Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy 2007.05.04
Processo 01  Pages 58 to 65


http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm Translated by Anna Esse / Albym 



34 to 41 Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann 2007.05.04
TRANSLATION BY INES/ALBYM
 
Processos Vol I Pages 34  to 39


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Translated by Ines / Albym

I have only given two examples, but rather important ones.


I actually quite liked Ines and Albym, generally they seemed very involved in trying to sleuth out what actually happened, rather than abusing The Mccanns ... rather like our Pegasus


But Anna Esse was another kettle of fish.  Really acidic and extremely against The Mccanns to the nth degree IMO.

Could such a person be unbiased?

Is she from the Essene Jewish sect?



Was it Ok that people so set against The Mccanns and so for The PJ should have been used for translation / interpretation?  Were they officially bona-fide interpreters or just folk with a linguistic ability?  Some biased.

I think you're mixing up the sworn interpreters used by the PJ with the volunteers who translated the released files into English. Apologies if that's what you were saying.

[sadie]

I think you're mixing up the sworn interpreters used by the PJ with the volunteers who translated the released files into English. Apologies if that's what you were saying.

That is quite possible Gunit.

Unfortunately my original post has been wiped along with SILs challenge

But even if that were the case, incorrectly translated statements are capable of being a source of much disinformation and mischief making on the internet.

I have hard copy evidence of a translation of a processos that has two versions, but I cannot share because only one stands now.  Neither version is the same as the original PT version which I also have a copy of.


Who thinks it OK to translate incorrectly, then change translations?

[ShiningInLuz]

That is quite possible Gunit.

Unfortunately my original post has been wiped along with SILs challenge

But even if that were the case, incorrectly translated statements are capable of being a source of much disinformation and mischief making on the internet.

I have hard copy evidence of a translation of a processos that has two versions, but I cannot share because only one stands now.  Neither version is the same as the original PT version which I also have a copy of.


Who thinks it OK to translate incorrectly, then change translations?

I wasn't challenging you, Sadie.  I was interested in whether someone from that particular forum claimed to have done official translations, which would mean inside knowledge.

As to why non-official translations change, that is easy. Our amateur translator (AT) is slogging through dozens of statements, translating for no charge but involving huge time and effort.  AT hits the Aoife Smith statement, tries his/her best, and the end result is it looks like Aoife said Smithman was going at a fast pace, when in fact her statement says nothing of the kind.

Once this becomes a bone of contention, it is necessary to back and think very carefully about the translation.  And to revise it if a revision is required.

[misty]

What does it mean if someone has made a statement or translated a statement under the term "compromise of honour"?

[sadie]

I wasn't challenging you, Sadie.  I was interested in whether someone from that particular forum claimed to have done official translations, which would mean inside knowledge.

As to why non-official translations change, that is easy. Our amateur translator (AT) is slogging through dozens of statements, translating for no charge but involving huge time and effort.  AT hits the Aoife Smith statement, tries his/her best, and the end result is it looks like Aoife said Smithman was going at a fast pace, when in fact her statement says nothing of the kind.

Once this becomes a bone of contention, it is necessary to back and think very carefully about the translation.  And to revise it if a revision is required.

Trouble is, SIL, that most of us dont speak PT.

I was able to identify three changes, even to the original PT Processos because the changes involved a number and at times a question mark.  All three were different on a potentially very important point. 

Had PT words been involved, I would have been unable to notice the differences.


Btw, can you please tell me how I can find the original 3A's forum again?  Thanks in advance.

[Robittybob1]

What does it mean if someone has made a statement or translated a statement under the term "compromise of honour"?

Could that be a conflict of interest.  I'd be interested in knowing any with that term in them.

[misty]

Could that be a conflict of interest.  I'd be interested in knowing any with that term in them.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm  ...... at the bottom

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/interpreters.htm#4271 - Murat



And from the libel trial....

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id306.html   
PJGA Press Note released to the media on 10 February 2010 PJGA

PJGA leaflet Portuguese language

PJGA leaflet English language


Citizens in Defence of Rights and Freedoms
Project Justice Gonçalo Amaral
                                                                                 
www.pjga.blogspot.com


*snipped*
The citizens of Project Justice Gonçalo Amaral would like to state as follows:

1. In the book "The Truth of the Lie", Gonçalo Amaral wrote that he and the rest of the Portuguese and English investigators concluded that Kate Healy and Gerald McCann are suspects of involvement in the concealment of Madeleine's cadaver.

2 . The Portuguese investigators have already given evidence in this court, and they declared, under a compromise of honour, that Kate Healy and Gerald McCann really are suspects of involvement in the concealment of their daughter’s cadaver.

[Robittybob1]

In the context it was used in the last sentence it would have to been "sworn under oath".

The Portuguese investigators have already given evidence in this court, and they declared, under a compromise of honour, that Kate Healy and Gerald McCann really are suspects of involvement in the concealment of their daughter’s cadaver.

The Portuguese investigators have already given evidence in this court, and they declared ,"sworn under oath" , that Kate Healy and Gerald McCann really are suspects of involvement in the concealment of their daughter’s cadaver.

[Brietta]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm  ...... at the bottom

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/interpreters.htm#4271 - Murat



And from the libel trial....

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id306.html   
PJGA Press Note released to the media on 10 February 2010 PJGA

PJGA leaflet Portuguese language

PJGA leaflet English language


Citizens in Defence of Rights and Freedoms
Project Justice Gonçalo Amaral
                                                                                 
www.pjga.blogspot.com


*snipped*
The citizens of Project Justice Gonçalo Amaral would like to state as follows:

1. In the book "The Truth of the Lie", Gonçalo Amaral wrote that he and the rest of the Portuguese and English investigators concluded that Kate Healy and Gerald McCann are suspects of involvement in the concealment of Madeleine's cadaver.

2 . The Portuguese investigators have already given evidence in this court, and they declared, under a compromise of honour, that Kate Healy and Gerald McCann really are suspects of involvement in the concealment of their daughter’s cadaver.

REPORT
on the Free Movement of Workers
in Portugal in 2011-2012

1.3. Art. 8(3)(a) of Directive 2004/38/CE
The Union citizens whose permanence in the national territory is longer than three months
must register with the Town Hall of the residence area within thirty days after a period of
time of three months from the date of entry in the national territory. A registration certificate
is issued immediately, stating the name and the address of the person registering and the date
of registration. For the registration certificate to be issued it is required a valid identity card
or passport, as well as a declaration under compromise of honour that the applicant works on
the Portuguese territory [Article 14(1) to (5) of Law 37/2006].
www.ru.nl/publish/pages/608499/portugal_2011-12_def.pdf


That is an interesting one, Misty.  I think it means taking an oath or under oath or an affirmation.  The word compromise certainly means something different for us.

[misty]

REPORT
on the Free Movement of Workers
in Portugal in 2011-2012

1.3. Art. 8(3)(a) of Directive 2004/38/CE
The Union citizens whose permanence in the national territory is longer than three months
must register with the Town Hall of the residence area within thirty days after a period of
time of three months from the date of entry in the national territory. A registration certificate
is issued immediately, stating the name and the address of the person registering and the date
of registration. For the registration certificate to be issued it is required a valid identity card
or passport, as well as a declaration under compromise of honour that the applicant works on
the Portuguese territory [Article 14(1) to (5) of Law 37/2006].
www.ru.nl/publish/pages/608499/portugal_2011-12_def.pdf


That is an interesting one, Misty.  I think it means taking an oath or under oath or an affirmation.  The word compromise certainly means something different for us.

Thanks for that. I was curious about the meaning as it's a strange turn of phrase from an English aspect, especially in the context of the M Hall statement.

[Brietta]

Thanks for that. I was curious about the meaning as it's a strange turn of phrase from an English aspect, especially in the context of the M Hall statement.

I think M Hall's statement is an important one.

She is an entirely independent witness, who reported a nearly 'invisible' person being able to lurk in the environs of apartment 5A.  Seen by no-one either coming or going and only being spotted by chance.

Why it should have been designated 'compromise of honour ' I have no idea.
She made the statement ... why should she not at the same time have been asked to affirm it like everyone else seems to have been, if that is indeed what the phrase means.

[misty]

I think M Hall's statement is an important one.

She is an entirely independent witness, who reported a nearly 'invisible' person being able to lurk in the environs of apartment 5A.  Seen by no-one either coming or going and only being spotted by chance.

Why it should have been designated 'compromise of honour ' I have no idea.
She made the statement ... why should she not at the same time have been asked to affirm it like everyone else seems to have been, if that is indeed what the phrase means.

Interesting how an apparently unrelated Portuguese file page is located bang smack in the middle of Hall's statement pages!!