Was the translation process a limiting factor in the Maddie case?

[Brietta]

Interesting how an apparently unrelated Portuguese file page is located bang smack in the middle of Hall's statement pages!!

I did notice that, and I did notice the names of the individuals referred to in those pages ... but I could not understand what was being said.

[Alice Purjorick]

It is interesting she she did not report the event at the time.
It is interesting that the geezer knew just where to walk and stand such that:
a) he could arrive at his chosen location.
b) lurk in his chosen location
both without activating the PIR.
Maybe he was the leccyteccy who set it up when it was installed?

[Robittybob1]

Interesting how an apparently unrelated Portuguese file page is located bang smack in the middle of Hall's statement pages!!

Are you talking about the file page (3rd down) that mentions Sergei Malinka but is not part of the English translation of Hall's statement?
Why would Hall's statement  start off with the words "PJ Document  Very Confidential"  which don't appear on the paper work attached?

Why would this incident be given that status of being "very confidential"?

[misty]

Are you talking about the file page (3rd down) that mentions Sergei Malinka but is not part of the English translation of Hall's statement?

3440. No mention of SM.

[Robittybob1]

3440. No mention of SM.

it seems to be talking about Murat.  It would be interesting to have Shining (or anyone else who is able to translate this document) to go through and give us a quick translation of that document.

[misty]

it seems to be talking about Murat.  It would be interesting to have Shining (or anyone else who is able to translate this document) to go through and give us a quick translation of that document.

There is a translation somewhere, I'll look for it.

ETA http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic5655.html (links to relevant pages in the files)

[G-Unit]

Margaret Hall's original statement is in Spanish. The reason being that spoke to Metodo 3 by telephone, not the PJ. They were given it at a meeting with M3 and Kennedy;



During the course of this meeting, the director of METODO 3 gave us a small book (attached), with information relative to the disappearance of the minor. This information, as we were told, was received via telephone and that they had already opened a line in Spain, specifically to receive and deal with information.

In this book, written in Spanish, we can analyse three pieces of information:

1. In the first case, we observed that there was report of facts which occurred in August/September of 2006, and which appears to us somewhat extemporaneous, as it cannot now be related to the material under investigation.
2. In the second point, we should remember that the computers of Sergey Malinka were searched and that nothing of suspicion was found there or related to paedophilia.
3. In that which concerns the third point, we are currently carrying out diligences with the intent to confirm or disprove the related information.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIAN-KENNEDY.htm

[Brietta]

Margaret Hall's original statement is in Spanish. The reason being that spoke to Metodo 3 by telephone, not the PJ. They were given it at a meeting with M3 and Kennedy;



During the course of this meeting, the director of METODO 3 gave us a small book (attached), with information relative to the disappearance of the minor. This information, as we were told, was received via telephone and that they had already opened a line in Spain, specifically to receive and deal with information.

In this book, written in Spanish, we can analyse three pieces of information:

1. In the first case, we observed that there was report of facts which occurred in August/September of 2006, and which appears to us somewhat extemporaneous, as it cannot now be related to the material under investigation.
2. In the second point, we should remember that the computers of Sergey Malinka were searched and that nothing of suspicion was found there or related to paedophilia.
3. In that which concerns the third point, we are currently carrying out diligences with the intent to confirm or disprove the related information.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIAN-KENNEDY.htm

I would say only No 1 would be applicable to the incident Margaret Hall experienced and reported to Metodo3.

1. In the first case, we observed that there was report of facts which occurred in August/September of 2006, and which appears to us somewhat extemporaneous, as it cannot now be related to the material under investigation.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIAN-KENNEDY.htm


I think the translation is misleading.
I wondered why Inspector Joao Carlos was so emphatic in dismissing what could very well have been information pertinent to Madeleine's case.  "quem se possa, por agora," translating as "without it being possible , for now," alters the meaning somewhat.

[misty]

Margaret Hall's original statement is in Spanish. The reason being that spoke to Metodo 3 by telephone, not the PJ. They were given it at a meeting with M3 and Kennedy;



During the course of this meeting, the director of METODO 3 gave us a small book (attached), with information relative to the disappearance of the minor. This information, as we were told, was received via telephone and that they had already opened a line in Spain, specifically to receive and deal with information.

In this book, written in Spanish, we can analyse three pieces of information:

1. In the first case, we observed that there was report of facts which occurred in August/September of 2006, and which appears to us somewhat extemporaneous, as it cannot now be related to the material under investigation.
2. In the second point, we should remember that the computers of Sergey Malinka were searched and that nothing of suspicion was found there or related to paedophilia.
3. In that which concerns the third point, we are currently carrying out diligences with the intent to confirm or disprove the related information.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIAN-KENNEDY.htm

Spot the anomolies in the translation.
*snipped
A witness called Margaret Hall who worked at the OC was located and tells us that six months before the incident with Maddie there could have been an abduction attempt from the same apartment that was let to the McCann family. On the 1st November 2007 she makes a statement in full honour that refers to the following:

Margaret Hall was employed by the Mark Warner resort in P da L for six months from October 2006 as a baby sitter for the clients.

She says that in August/September 2006 she was working as a babysitter in the same apartment that the girl was abducted from. She confirms that the events occurred on a Thursday night. Thursday nights were known as the "tennis nights" and on that night the girl's parents were out playing tennis.

[sadie]

Spot the anomolies in the translation.
*snipped
A witness called Margaret Hall who worked at the OC was located and tells us that six months before the incident with Maddie there could have been an abduction attempt from the same apartment that was let to the McCann family. On the 1st November 2007 she makes a statement in full honour that refers to the following:

Margaret Hall was employed by the Mark Warner resort in P da L for six months from October 2006 as a baby sitter for the clients.

She says that in August/September 2006 she was working as a babysitter in the same apartment that the girl was abducted from. She confirms that the events occurred on a Thursday night. Thursday nights were known as the "tennis nights" and on that night the girl's parents were out playing tennis.

Well spotted misty.

So the incident occurred before she was employed as a baby sitter


and,
Another Thursday night ....

Wonder what nights the other break ins happened?


Surely this was a mega clue for Amaral, but seems he ignored it like it seems he ignored other break ins at OC.  Now am I remembering correctly, weren't some of these via the front door?

[misty]

Well spotted misty.

So the incident occurred before she was employed as a baby sitter


and,
Another Thursday night ....

Wonder what nights the other break ins happened?


Surely this was a mega clue for Amaral, but seems he ignored it like it seems he ignored other break ins at OC.  Now am I remembering correctly, weren't some of these via the front door?

Also, Mark Warner hadn't bought into OC in 2006!!
Added to that - the child's parents were playing tennis at 0030hrs?

[sadie]

Also, Mark Warner hadn't bought into OC in 2006!!
Added to that - the child's parents were playing tennis at 0030hrs?

Gawd, I am getting too old.  I never noticed them.  Well spotted.

Who translated it?  Have you seen the original?

Just shows how little we should rely on the translations, doesn't it?


Gotta go now.  Nigh night all

[misty]

Gawd, I am getting too old.  I never noticed them.  Well spotted.

Who translated it?  Have you seen the original?

Just shows how little we should rely on the translations, doesn't it?


Gotta go now.  Nigh night all

As GUnit said, the info was given to Spanish Metado 3 by telephone. So, possibly English to Spanish to Portuguese & back to English.
The Daily Mirror did contact her & get an efit.
 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189

[Brietta]

As GUnit said, the info was given to Spanish Metado 3 by telephone. So, possibly English to Spanish to Portuguese & back to English.
The Daily Mirror did contact her & get an efit.
 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189

The only ones who seem to have acted appropriately when given this witness statement appear to be the much maligned Metodo 3.

**snip
After hearing nothing from the police in the UK, she went straight to Metodo 3, the private investigators working for Kate and Gerry.

They passed her information to Portuguese police, who dismissed it as being "out-dated".

Her information only came to light after Portuguese officers released all their files relating to Maddy earlier this month.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189

It is interesting that Margaret Hall mentions a PIR being activated when the man moved position.  The only other mention of an outside light was made by a previous occupant of 5A.

**snip
We arrived on Saturday and this night noticed that the blinds on the patio side door which gave way to the pool zone did not close.
It appeared that someone had lifted them too much and the mechanism did not dislodge in order to shut them (page1).
We reported this abnormality to the reception that same night.

We reported this immediately because we found that the apartment could be at risk if it was not possible to close the door blinds.

The apartment was also vulnerable for the fact that the entryway light (side of the street) was hanging and did not function. This made the entryway very dark. It was off from the street with a small parking zone between the street and the apartment.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JUNE-HUGHES.htm

I found this statement interesting ...

• I think June assumed that the blinds were a security feature, as I think most Brits would.
• She appeared to know that they had been "lifted" inappropriately ~ perhaps as a result of the maintenance team explaining the proper way to open and close them
• She makes no mention of the outside light being repaired despite her recognition of the security issue of the cover of darkness this gave to the recessed wooden doorway

I don't think there was any problem with translation issues as far as the statement goes. 

I think the main problem with it is that the statement was not taken until 29 April 2008 ~ a year after the events described in it had occurred.  How is it possible to build any sort of picture of the events surrounding Madeleine's disappearance if no-one bothers to ...
(a) interview people actually resident in the building at the time of Madeleine's disappearance
(b) interview previous recent occupants

[G-Unit]

As GUnit said, the info was given to Spanish Metado 3 by telephone. So, possibly English to Spanish to Portuguese & back to English.
The Daily Mirror did contact her & get an efit.
 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189

So UK police somewhere along the line didn't pass her first statement on? It would be interesting to know why.