Author Topic: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.  (Read 141205 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2016, 07:07:20 PM »
Speaking of Kate's book;

''If the poster Heidi Ho (who produced this video) doubts the veracity of Kate's account, she should try something novel such as reading the files, then she would know beyond doubt that Kate is telling the truth.''

I have read the files and used them to demonstrate that Kate's book is not completely correct in every detail.

''Before charges are brought, a plea-bargain is impossible, and in countries such as Portugal, where the police and judiciary operate independently of each other, they are not possible at all.''

Rubbish! The PJ are part of the Judiciary. 

It is integrated into the Ministry of Justice, under the supervision of the Public Ministry. For the criminal investigation, the Public Ministry also controls the activity of the Judiciary Police.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ministry_(Portugal)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:37:26 PM by John »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2016, 07:29:50 PM »
To summarise so far;

Harrison approved of and took part in all the PJ searches from 31st July to 7th August.

There is no proof that Amaral knew that Harrison's brief was to suggest the best areas to search for a murder victim.

There is no evidence that the McCanns were suspected of murder or that they were made arguidos because of that suspicion.

There is no evidence that the McCann's lawyer had any authorisation from the PJ to offer Kate McCann anything, or that he did so. It's possible she jumped to conclusions due to Ferreira's comment to her.



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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2016, 07:36:34 PM »
Speaking of Kate's book;

''If the poster Heidi Ho (who produced this video) doubts the veracity of Kate's account, she should try something novel such as reading the files, then she would know beyond doubt that Kate is telling the truth.''

I have read the files and used them to demonstrate that Kate's book is not completely correct in every detail.

''Before charges are brought, a plea-bargain is impossible, and in countries such as Portugal, where the police and judiciary operate independently of each other, they are not possible at all.''

Rubbish! The PJ are part of the Judiciary. 

It is integrated into the Ministry of Justice, under the supervision of the Public Ministry. For the criminal investigation, the Public Ministry also controls the activity of the Judiciary Police.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ministry_(Portugal)


No clue what you're disputing, or what your link is supposed to show?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:39:08 PM by John »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2016, 07:40:53 PM »
This post is off topic, but I will answer.

On 7th of September 2007 Kate Healy was declared arguida on the basis of strong presumptions of the crime of concealing a body and simulating an abduction. At 4pm Gerald McCann was declared arguido for the same reasons.

According to Kate Healy/McCann after her interview on 6th May;

Paulo Ferreira stopped me in the corridor and said in a portentous tone, ‘You must go back now and listen very carefully to your lawyer. He has something important to say to you.’

Her lawyer did indeed speak to her and her husband and he advised them what to do, which is part of a lawyers job;

Carlos announced what the police had proposed. If we, or rather I, admitted that Madeleine had died in an accident in the apartment, and confessed to having hidden and disposed of her body, the sentence I’d receive would be much more lenient: only two years, he said, as opposed to what I’d be looking at if I ended up being charged with homicide. [Madeleine]

There was no offer of a plea bargain. It had all been "a misunderstanding", the McCann lawyer, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, explained the following day.'

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/sep/17/mondaymediasection13

No mention of murder and a denial that a bargain was offered by the person alleged to have offered it. It seems you are adding your own opinions into the mix again. It's quite possible that de Abreu advised Kate Healy/McCann to think carefully about her position, but the idea that it was a bargain offered by the police comes solely from her.

The article from the Guardian by Giles Tremlett (which I had intended quoting myself) was published before release of the files and is inaccurate for that reason.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2016, 07:46:28 PM »
"Homicide" is something like murder though isn't it?

Yes

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2016, 07:51:15 PM »
G-Unit

There is no evidence that the McCanns were suspected of murder or that they were made arguidos because of that suspicion.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:40:13 PM by John »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2016, 08:19:35 PM »
If we, or rather I, admitted that Madeleine had died in an accident in the apartment, and confessed to having hidden and disposed of her body, the sentence I’d receive would be much more lenient: only two years, he said, as
opposed to what I’d be looking at if I ended up being charged with homicide......The incentive to accept this ‘offer’ seemed to be that if we didn’t agree to it, the authorities could or would go after us for murder, and if we were found guilty, we might both receive life sentences. Was this what it came down to? Confess to this lesser charge
or risk something much worse? [Madeleine]

Leaving the idea of a 'deal' aside, Kate's lawyer seems to warning her what could happen, which was his job. If they were involved their best move at that moment would have been to own up and for Kate to serve a short sentence. If they didn't do that and were eventually charged, tried and found guilty of murder the consequences would be much greater.

If Kate heard two and two and made five instead of four it's understandable. The fact remains the files contain no evidence to suggest that the parents were suspected of murder. Even Harrison's brief from Encarnacao can't be seen as due to suspicion of the parents. We don't know why Encarnacao used that word.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:40:39 PM by John »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2016, 08:54:43 PM »
G-Unit

There is no evidence that the McCanns were suspected of murder or that they were made arguidos because of that suspicion.


Kate Healy/McCann knew exactly what she was suspected of;

Breaking down in tears, distraught Kate said of the Portuguese police: "They want me to lie - I'm being framed.
...."Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us."....."They are basically saying, 'If you confess Madeleine had an accident, and that I panicked and hid the body in a bag for a month then got rid of it in a hire car, I'd get two or three years' suspended sentence.'
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id16.html

She attributes what her lawyer told her to the police, but the lawyer said she misunderstood. Note she doesn't mention being suspected of murder.

Harrison mentioned murder because Encarnacao did. We don't know why Encarnacao mentioned it, his request to the NPIA isn't in the official files.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:42:36 PM by John »
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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2016, 08:56:28 PM »
I copied your post and put my response (to part of it) in red in your post.

Here it is again:

Part of your post:

And my reply:

Are you?

It is Kate's impression that that was the suspicion. Doesn't mean it was true or the alternative.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:44:48 PM by John »
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2016, 09:06:04 PM »
It is Kate's impression that that was the suspicion. Doesn't mean it was true or the alternative.

That's what I was trying to say, thanks! What Kate thought was going on and what was actually going on seem to differ. She seems to have misunderstood.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:45:04 PM by John »
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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2016, 09:09:25 PM »
Kate Healy/McCann knew exactly what she was suspected of;

Breaking down in tears, distraught Kate said of the Portuguese police: "They want me to lie - I'm being framed.
...."Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us."....."They are basically saying, 'If you confess Madeleine had an accident, and that I panicked and hid the body in a bag for a month then got rid of it in a hire car, I'd get two or three years' suspended sentence.'
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id16.html

She attributes what her lawyer told her to the police, but the lawyer said she misunderstood. Note she doesn't mention being suspected of murder.

Harrison mentioned murder because Encarnacao did. We don't know why Encarnacao mentioned it, his request to the NPIA isn't in the official files.

The lawyer was referring to the remark (of Kate's sister-in-law) Philomena McCann that the McCanns had been offered a 'plea-bargain'. 

They were offered a deal but not (strictly) a 'plea-bargain'.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 10:00:40 PM by ShiningInLuz »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2016, 10:01:04 PM »
It is Kate's impression that that was the suspicion. Doesn't mean it was true or the alternative.

Look what I found;

I’m not saying the police did believe we had killed Madeleine. I have never for one second thought that. [Madeleine]
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:45:22 PM by John »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2016, 10:04:09 PM »
The lawyer was referring to the remark (of Kate's sister-in-law) Philomena McCann that the McCanns had been offered a 'plea-bargain'. 

They were offered a deal but not (strictly) a 'plea-bargain'.

How do you know?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2016, 10:18:00 PM »
Look what I found;

I’m not saying the police did believe we had killed Madeleine. I have never for one second thought that. [Madeleine]
What page is that from?
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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Mark Harrison and the searches he recommended and took part in.
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2016, 10:31:21 PM »
How do you know?

Because I believe Kate.