Have the dog alerts any significance?

[Mr Gray]

Defense attorney Doug Woodruff asked Higgins about the accuracy of Maggie's nose and if there is any scientific proof that shows these type of dogs only get aroused by cadavers.

"Scientifically, no," Higgins replied.
LOL.

So no scientific proof to support the alerts

That's what I said a few days ago and a certain mod insisted there was

[Mr Gray]

You may not have been privy to an earlier discussion in which it was claimed there were hundreds of scientific studies that proved the reliability of the dog alerts, strange therefore that a dog handler claims there isn't any scientific proof isn't it?

thank you Alf for highlighting that point....there is just so much rubbish posted about the dogs.
the dogs are an invaluable tool for finding evidence....but unconfirmed alerts are basically of no real value

[John]

Well it does rather suggest that the dog alerts can tell us nothing useful to further the case doesn't it?  If Madeleine woke and wandered and was removed outside the apartment whatever the dog alerted to is nothing to do with the case.

That could very well be the case.

[ferryman]

That could very well be the case.

No it couldn't, because the shelved enquiry ruled out 'woke and wandered'.

[John]

The following thread looked at the Cuddlecat incident where the toy was lifted out of the toy bucket onto the floor by Eddie, he then moves the toy to the middle of the floor before wandering off.  No alerts.

See video from 1.10 to 2.10

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1619.msg48305#msg48305

[John]

No it couldn't, because the shelved enquiry ruled out 'woke and wandered'.

And we know how much that's worth.

[Mr Gray]

And we know how much that's worth.

a lot more than the bark of a dog

[ferryman]

The following thread looked at the Cuddlecat incident where the toy was lifted out of the toy bucket onto the floor by Eddie, he then moves the toy to the middle of the floor before wandering off.  No alerts.

See video from 1.10 to 2.10

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1619.msg48305#msg48305

The alert came after the toy was put in the cupboard.

From Grime's rogatory:

Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''

The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.

So after the dog had picked the toy up in its mouth and tossed it in the air (without alerting) the toy was put away in a cupboard and Eddie alerted (Grime says!) to the toy.

And no.

The toy was never sent to the FSS for forensic analysis.

[ShiningInLuz]

So no scientific proof to support the alerts

That's what I said a few days ago and a certain mod insisted there was

And Im still saying that there are scientific studies re cadaver dogs, which was what the debate was about at the time.

The idea that anyone in the debate claimed that cadaver dogs only alert to cadavers is ludicrous.  The idea that anyone claimed there were scientific studies proving this is ludicrous.

The thread contains links to scientific studies re the capability of cadaver dogs.

Anyone who has to grossly distort a discussion to score a point is not a debater.  It is propaganda, pure and simple.

[John]

If you study the dog video between 4.05 and 4.38 carefully you can see that Eddie alerted in the corner by the cupboard, he never alerted at the end where Cuddlecat was hidden.

Eddie was given a cuddly toy in training so reverted to puppy mode.

[John]

Surely there is more than one copy of the video in existence ?

The footage which was originally on the internet was uncut raw footage, what remains today has been heavily edited.

[Eleanor]

If you study the dog video between 4.05 and 4.38 carefully you can see that Eddie alerted in the corner by the cupboard, he never alerted at the end where Cuddlecat was hidden.

Eddie was given a cuddly toy in training so reverted to puppy mode.

How very silly was that?

[jassi]

The footage which was originally on the internet was uncut raw footage, what remains today has been heavily edited.

Which begs the question where is it now? Surely not destroyed.

[John]

Which begs the question where is it now? Surely not destroyed.

I would say the PJ have the full uncut footage and have copied it to SY.

[misty]

If you study the dog video between 4.05 and 4.38 carefully you can see that Eddie alerted in the corner by the cupboard, he never alerted at the end where Cuddlecat was hidden.

Eddie was given a cuddly toy in training so reverted to puppy mode.

A cuddly toy was not Eddie's reward, John.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Apartment 5 D

We've put the victim recovery dog through this apartment, the only interest has been in some food that he has found, other than that there is no interest in anything that he has been taught to tell me that he has found.

Apartment H5

We searched this apartment and the dog hasn't shown any interest in this particular apartment, apart from around the table, where there was a tennis ball which is how we reward the dog for finding things, as soon as we removed the tennis ball the interest was gone. And so it was a negative search.