Top Three Reasons Why You Believe JB Guilty Or Innocent

[Holly Goodhead]

What personal comments?

I viewed some comments made on the board during the last 24 hours, from both camps, to contain a personal element.  Therefore for the benefit of all members, new and existing, I issued a polite reminder that @ Uk Justice Forum we seek to debate the facts of the case as we perceive them without malice.

Off to watch England v Lithuania world cup qualifier 

[Caroline]

I viewed some comments made on the board during the last 24 hours, from both camps, to contain a personal element.  Therefore for the benefit of all members, new and existing, I issued a polite reminder that @ Uk Justice Forum we seek to debate the facts of the case as we perceive them without malice.

Off to watch England v Lithuania world cup qualifier 

Seeking is always useful - finding is a tad more difficult! 

[Nostalgia NZ]

Remind us how long have you been interested in this case?

Long enough to work out that Sheila suicided and NB was shot by her on the stairs.

[Caroline]

Long enough to work out that Sheila suicided and NB was shot by her on the stairs.

Clearly not long enough - no where near!

[Nostalgia NZ]

Clearly not long enough - no where near!

Certainly more than enough time. No need for rumours and speculation just the crime scene facts.

[Nostalgia NZ]

I viewed some comments made on the board during the last 24 hours, from both camps, to contain a personal element.  Therefore for the benefit of all members, new and existing, I issued a polite reminder that @ Uk Justice Forum we seek to debate the facts of the case as we perceive them without malice.

Off to watch England v Lithuania world cup qualifier 

Had a sort of revelation this morning about the British conviction review authority. They have authorised forensic testing in other cases for applicants, and I believe they may have done so for Bamber previously. Is there any reason they would not order a reconstruction or animation based on the crime scene evidence which appears to strongly exclude NB having been shot in the shoulder anywhere but on the stairs. The same could apply to the mantle scratches which are also inconsistent with the claim that they arrived there during a fight of some sort.

[Caroline]

Had a sort of revelation this morning about the British conviction review authority. They have authorised forensic testing in other cases for applicants, and I believe they may have done so for Bamber previously. Is there any reason they would not order a reconstruction or animation based on the crime scene evidence which appears to strongly exclude NB having been shot in the shoulder anywhere but on the stairs. The same could apply to the mantle scratches which are also inconsistent with the claim that they arrived there during a fight of some sort.

I think you mean the Criminal Case Review Commission (CCRC)? They won't be organising any reconstructions and have already looked into the mantel scratches.

[John]

There is a difference between smears and spatter or splatter in forensics. Throwing words about in such a manner shows you don't have the basics right. But please explain why no forensic expert at trial suggested Sheila should have been covered in blood 'smears.'

Throwing words about?  Apparently it is you who don't seem to understand the basics as to what trauma a human being goes through after being hit by a speeding bullet at point blank range.  This is not the movies you know?

I suggest you read through the threads which relate to the subject before casting aspersions on my knowledge of the case.

[John]

If we can show he was shot coming up the stairs would that change your view of Jeremy's guilt? We discussed this for weeks on IA and the best reconstruction MikeG, architect who drew the pictures, could produce was Nevill swinging his feet around and being shot in the shoulder while still lying back. This does not work, and eventually he gave up.
On the reco that Holly worked out everything fits perfectly, with the phone call, then the shots upstairs, then the ascent up the stairs into gunfire in the mouth. He got close alright.

In answer to Nevill would have told Jeremy she was shooting, we have a lot of claims of what would be done or said in all these cases, assertions without evidence, and there are alternatives. For example stunned silence at the realisation Sheila was actually using the gun

The position of the empty shell casings attributed to both Nevill and June evidence a shooter who had just entered the master bedroom unless you are suggesting that the police placed the casings there for some sinister reason?

There is no mystery about this evidence.  Had Nevill been shot on the stairs or the landing the casings would all have been found on the stairs.  Its that simple.  Changing the evidence to support speculation that Sheila fired the rifle does work I'm afraid.

[John]

Hi John. I fear you have misunderstood the case and fallen into the trap of false assumptions about the forensics. We know the trajectory of the shot to NB's shoulder and you are welcome to be the first person in the world to show how it could have happened in the bedroom.

The trajectory of the bullet is of no significance since it cannot prove or disprove anything.  Only Nevill's killer knows at what angle he came at him, whether he knelt, ducked down or turned sideways to avoid the shots.

[John]

Long enough to work out that Sheila suicided and NB was shot by her on the stairs.

Impossible by reason already given.

[John]

Had a sort of revelation this morning about the British conviction review authority. They have authorised forensic testing in other cases for applicants, and I believe they may have done so for Bamber previously. Is there any reason they would not order a reconstruction or animation based on the crime scene evidence which appears to strongly exclude NB having been shot in the shoulder anywhere but on the stairs. The same could apply to the mantle scratches which are also inconsistent with the claim that they arrived there during a fight of some sort.

A reconstruction is unnecessary.  Close scrutiny of the forensic evidence reveals everything we ever needed to know.   Jeremy Bamber's attempt to implicate his sister by creating a murder/suicide scenario within a locked farmhouse was his undoing.

Team Bamber have had 30+ years to come up with evidence in support of Jeremy but failed miserably.  The reason for this failure is very simple, there isn't any.  All the scratched mantelpieces and bloodied silencers in the world will never add up to anything capable of overturning Bamber's conviction.

[Holly Goodhead]

A reconstruction is unnecessary.  Close scrutiny of the forensic evidence reveals everything we ever needed to know.   Jeremy Bamber's attempt to implicate his sister by creating a murder/suicide scenario within a locked farmhouse was his undoing.

Team Bamber have had 30+ years to come up with evidence in support of Jeremy but failed miserably.  The reason for this failure is very simple, there isn't any.  All the scratched mantelpieces and bloodied silencers in the world will never add up to anything capable of overturning Bamber's conviction.

The fact experts didn't enter WHF other than Dr Vanezis who said he wasn't aware of the position of cartridges (casings) and where NB was shot says it all imo:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

Afaik to scale drawings of WHF were never produced. 

There's too much that doesn't add up for the 'JB burst into his parents bedroom and shot them' scenario:

- None of NB's blood was found in the bedroom: bedding, carpet despite confirmation from Dr Vanezis that the facial wounds contained a rich blood supply
- Two casings in the left hand corner of the bedroom (lhc upon entering)
- One casing on the transition strip
- One casing on the landing
- The casings above do not support the theory NB sustained gsw's whilst in bed and getting out of
-  The gsw's NB sustained to his face and the shoulder and elbow/chest to his rear all had downward trajectories. How could he sustain all these gsw's whilst in bed and in the process of getting out of?  Bearing in mind the gsw's to his face were fired at a distance of a few inches and the shoulder and elbow shots from a distance of at least 2' feet away.

NB shot on the landing stairs and main staircase fits with all the physcial evidence imo.  The only way to prove this one way or another is by experts carrying out a proper reconstruction which afaik to date has never been carried out. 

[John]

The fact experts didn't enter WHF other than Dr Vanezis who said he wasn't aware of the position of cartridges (casings) and where NB was shot says it all imo:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

Afaik to scale drawings of WHF were never produced. 

There's too much that doesn't add up for the 'JB burst into his parents bedroom and shot them' scenario:

- None of NB's blood was found in the bedroom: bedding, carpet despite confirmation from Dr Vanezis that the facial wounds contained a rich blood supply
- Two casings in the left hand corner of the bedroom (lhc upon entering)
- One casing on the transition strip
- One casing on the landing
- The casings above do not support the theory NB sustained gsw's whilst in bed and getting out of
-  The gsw's NB sustained to his face and the shoulder and elbow/chest to his rear all had downward trajectories. How could he sustain all these gsw's whilst in bed and in the process of getting out of?  Bearing in mind the gsw's to his face were fired at a distance of a few inches and the shoulder and elbow shots from a distance of at least 2' feet away.

NB shot on the landing stairs and main staircase fits with all the physcial evidence imo.  The only way to prove this one way or another is by experts carrying out a proper reconstruction which afaik to date has never been carried out.

Holly, it would have been impossible for the empty casings to have ended up where they did in the bedroom had Nevill been shot on the stairs coming up.  Bullets don't fly round corners!!

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, it would have been impossible for the empty casings to have ended up where they did in the bedroom had Nevill been shot on the stairs coming up.  Bullets don't fly round corners!!

There's no need for anything to fly around corners in my scenario.  This is reason I think a computerised animated 3d reconstruction to scale is required to see what works and what doesn't.  Autopsy photos of the victims exist so it should be possible to incoporate them into a scaled model.  Although I'm not suggesting anything this graphic should be bandied about indiscrimately.  There's so much data available that it should be possible to advance this one way or another.  I have my version firmly embedded in my mind but I accept I am not an expert in any related field.