A question of common sense?

[G-Unit]

The group did want a Mark Warner listening service as they had pre planned, in the UK, to leave the children alone every night while they dined...

And I agree G.  We really don't know the correct time Maddie disappeared as no one physicaly checked those children since parents leaving for dinner and drinks.
How fotuitous that Gerry caims he saw maddie at that time, left a small window VERY SMALL window for a burglar to rush in through a window and back out without being seen.  IF the moving door had not occured,(and we only have the parents say so on this) who knows what story would have been sold to us.

My personal belief is the time line was created to factor in:none of them knew when Maddie could have gone missing.

The main attraction of a listening service is that parents can enjoy a peaceful meal. When the group realised there was none at the Ocean Club Matthew says;

That fact had made some of the couples - and himself in particular - reluctant to come to Portugal because all the families have minor children...........Nevertheless, he relates that, they had discussed this problem resolving to make the trip since the operator had assured them accommodation sufficiently close together that, collectively, they had managed to assure the checking and supervision of their respective progeny.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

So they agreed to replicate the Mark Warner system. To me, that would suggest that one person at a time would go and listen at all the apartments to make sure no-one was crying. That was the point of them all being close together, surely? One check every half hour would mean around four checks each evening if they stayed out from 8.30pm to 11pm. Leaving Dianne out of the 'rota' each person would have to check once every other evening or once every evening if they went in pairs.

It all worked out quite differently though. The Paynes arrived with an all singing all dancing baby monitor and opted out of the checking regime. The McCanns never checked anyone else's children it seems, although Russell claims to have checked theirs once inside the apartment and Matthew claims to have listened once and checked inside once.

So were Russell and Matthew nice kind people or mugs?
 

[Miss Taken Identity]

The main attraction of a listening service is that parents can enjoy a peaceful meal. When the group realised there was none at the Ocean Club Matthew says;

That fact had made some of the couples - and himself in particular - reluctant to come to Portugal because all the families have minor children...........Nevertheless, he relates that, they had discussed this problem resolving to make the trip since the operator had assured them accommodation sufficiently close together that, collectively, they had managed to assure the checking and supervision of their respective progeny.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

So they agreed to replicate the Mark Warner system. To me, that would suggest that one person at a time would go and listen at all the apartments to make sure no-one was crying. That was the point of them all being close together, surely? One check every half hour would mean around four checks each evening if they stayed out from 8.30pm to 11pm. Leaving Dianne out of the 'rota' each person would have to check once every other evening or once every evening if they went in pairs.

It all worked out quite differently though. The Paynes arrived with an all singing all dancing baby monitor and opted out of the checking regime. The McCanns never checked anyone else's children it seems, although Russell claims to have checked theirs once inside the apartment and Matthew claims to have listened once and checked inside once.

So were Russell and Matthew nice kind people or mugs?

Well, what can one say about that? The whole claim about 'checking' the children is also a myth bourne from fear of arrest.

 It was NOT made clear at the begining, what the 'checking' consisted of. I, along with many others, at the begining  were led to believe: The checking consisted of a system of timeously, physical checks, to all parents who could see the apartment from where they sat, and that is was akin to sitting in a back garden.

Well turned out so very different didn't it.

[ferryman]

Well, what can one say about that? The whole claim about 'checking' the children is also a myth bourne from fear of arrest.

 It was NOT made clear at the begining, what the 'checking' consisted of. I, along with many others, at the begining  were led to believe: The checking consisted of a system of timeously, physical checks, to all parents who could see the apartment from where they sat, and that is was akin to sitting in a back garden.

Well turned out so very different didn't it.

Read the statements of the waiters who waited on the whole group during the holiday.  They are peppered with references to having to re-heat meals of the group who left the table, for reasons, at the time, unclear to the waiters, but clear to us who have all the flies to read; so that they could check on their children!

[sadie]

I think Gerry did turn on the light at his 9:05 check for the reason seems greater than normal.  Upon seeing her well he has a proud father moment, he's had 4 years to have that so what brought it on just then?

I think he turned the light on too, but NOT the light in the bedroom.  Just the sitting room light; it was dusk.

Aw gawd, Rob, haven't you had sudden proud parent moments?   I have.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Read the statements of the waiters who waited on the whole group during the holiday.  They are peppered with references to having to re-heat meals of the group who left the table, for reasons, at the time, unclear to the waiters, but clear to us who have all the flies to read; so that they could check on their children!

Irrelevent point there Ferry.

The waiters cannot be witness to parents having a schedule [they didn't] or can they know what the checks were physical. they were listening at door and windows.[apart from DP and wife.]

Can anyone verify how many times and how many of the meals were re heated? if this is the case what was the point in dining out without the children?

[ShiningInLuz]

Kate had no intention of turning on the light in case it woke the children. Gerry said opening the front door might have disturbed them. I think they were parents who were very wary of anything which might waken their children.

Try viewing Gerry's speech after they got off the flight home and see if you are still of the same opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX3u2Hp42ic
22.57 in.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Try viewing Gerry's speech after they got off the flight home and see if you are still of the same opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX3u2Hp42ic
22.57 in.

I am still of the same opinion as G.

The children were known to wake up during the night according the the parents. Well apart from that one evening  where they slept through a real noisy,busy bedroom activity. Which made Kate think they may have been drugged.

[Robittybob1]

Try viewing Gerry's speech after they got off the flight home and see if you are still of the same opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX3u2Hp42ic
22.57 in.

What is said at this point that adds to the argument?  "While it is heartbreaking to return to the UK without Madeleine, it does not mean we're given up the search for her."

[ShiningInLuz]

I am still of the same opinion as G.

The children were known to wake up during the night according the the parents. Well apart from that one evening  where they slept through a real noisy,busy bedroom activity. Which made Kate think they may have been drugged.

I am not of the opinion of ... IMO.

I simply take in all the evidence I can hoover up.

When the McCanns got off their return plane to the UK, Gerry led the family with Sean sound asleep on his left shoulder (sparking the Smithman could be Gerry train of thought).

Kate brought up the rear with an obviously awake Amelie beside her.

Gerry then boomed out a statement just inches from Sean's left ear.  Sean slept through the plane landing, slept through the journey down steep aircraft steps, and slept through Gerry's raised-voice speech in his shell-like.

If both twins had come off that flight asleep, we might be debating a potential sedation moment.   But we are not, as the video evidence shows Amelie awake as her brother slept through the commotion.

[Mr Gray]

I am not of the opinion of ... IMO.

I simply take in all the evidence I can hoover up.

When the McCanns got off their return plane to the UK, Gerry led the family with Sean sound asleep on his left shoulder (sparking the Smithman could be Gerry train of thought).

Kate brought up the rear with an obviously awake Amelie beside her.

Gerry then boomed out a statement just inches from Sean's left ear.  Sean slept through the plane landing, slept through the journey down steep aircraft steps, and slept through Gerry's raised-voice speech in his shell-like.

If both twins had come off that flight asleep, we might be debating a potential sedation moment.   But we are not, as the video evidence shows Amelie awake as her brother slept through the commotion.

Those of us who are exprienced in taking young children on holiday know that they can get very tired and sleep through anything. Go to benidorm and you will see toddlers fast asleep in pushchairs whilst the music booms...and they are not sedated

[G-Unit]

Try viewing Gerry's speech after they got off the flight home and see if you are still of the same opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX3u2Hp42ic
22.57 in.

Try viewing Gerry's speech after they got off the flight home and see if you are still of the same opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX3u2Hp42ic
22.57 in.

Sorry, I don't see the connection.

[ShiningInLuz]

Sorry, I don't see the connection.

Sean came down through the recompression stage of the flight.  That, in my experience, is the part that gives young children the most difficulties with flying, until they learn to swallow to ease the pressure on their eardrums.

Then he got picked up.  Then he got carried off, down the boarding steps.

Then his dad belted out his statement on the tarmac.

And Sean slept through it all.

I have no reason to suspect Sean was sedated for that flight, merely that he was dog-tired at the end of it.

[Mr Gray]

Sean came down through the recompression stage of the flight.  That, in my experience, is the part that gives young children the most difficulties with flying, until they learn to swallow to ease the pressure on their eardrums.

Then he got picked up.  Then he got carried off, down the boarding steps.

Then his dad belted out his statement on the tarmac.

And Sean slept through it all.

I have no reason to suspect Sean was sedated for that flight, merely that he was dog-tired at the end of it.

when children are tired they will sleep through anything....no need for seadtion

[G-Unit]

Sean came down through the recompression stage of the flight.  That, in my experience, is the part that gives young children the most difficulties with flying, until they learn to swallow to ease the pressure on their eardrums.

Then he got picked up.  Then he got carried off, down the boarding steps.

Then his dad belted out his statement on the tarmac.

And Sean slept through it all.

I have no reason to suspect Sean was sedated for that flight, merely that he was dog-tired at the end of it.

I don't suppose it mattered if he woke up or not at that point. I was discussing parental behaviour when the kids are in bed and the parents want their dinner. They will avoid waking their children then if possible and they both said they did. Kate by not turning on the light and Gerry by not using the front door.

[ShiningInLuz]

I don't suppose it mattered if he woke up or not at that point. I was discussing parental behaviour when the kids are in bed and the parents want their dinner. They will avoid waking their children then if possible and they both said they did. Kate by not turning on the light and Gerry by not using the front door.

R131 and R133.

You opined about what the parents did and did not do, and what they would and would not do.

I have responded with independent evidence of what Gerry actually did do.