'Why didn't you come when Sean and I cried last night?'

[Alice Purjorick]

It’s the concept of it being strange that a door in an apartment in which there was a ambulatory nearly 4yo that baffles me.

It is the concept of everyone remebering the attitude of the door, as they left it, with such clarity that baffles me.

[Wonderfulspam]

Door was pulled too at bedtime by Kate & Gerry, together, as shown in crimewatch.

Door open wider at 9pm, Gerry makes a visual check purely because of this, he returns the door to it's original position, Maddie is still lying as they left her, (so she hadn't got up & moved the door herself).

Door wide open again on Matts visit, room so light he can see the twins breathing.

Door pulled further too again when Kate checks, wind slams the door shut just at that precise moment she goes to close it, (how extraordinary!),  so, she only makes a visual check because of this wind, & now it's so dark in there that she can't even see if the empty bed is occupied or not.

Wind blows the curtains open. All is revealed.

That's about the size of it, & it's difficult to believe.

Good job that door kept moving & the wind blew or neither parent would have visually checked at all, & poor Maddie might not have been discovered missing until the morning.

[Robittybob1]

Door was pulled too at bedtime by Kate & Gerry, together, as shown in crimewatch.

Door open wider at 9pm, Gerry makes a visual check purely because of this, he returns the door to it's original position, Maddie is still lying as they left her, (so she hadn't got up & moved the door herself).

Door wide open again on Matts visit, room so light he can see the twins breathing.

Door pulled further too again when Kate checks, wind slams the door shut just at that precise moment she goes to close it, (how extraordinary!),  so, she only makes a visual check because of this wind, & now it's so dark in there that she can't even see if the empty bed is occupied or not.

Wind blows the curtains open. All is revealed.

That's about the size of it, & it's difficult to believe.

Good job that door kept moving & the wind blew or neither parent would have visually checked at all, & poor Maddie might not have been discovered missing until the morning.

You make it sound like it was good thing the discovery was found at night.  What would have been the problem if it was discovered at 8:00 AM next morning?  There wouldn't be all the disturbance of the crime scene and the case may have been solved.

[Robittybob1]

I agree that it's possible to think of innocent reasons why the door wasn't as he thought he left it. As Gerry doesn't mention any of those reasons, however, we can't assume that he thought of them.

I had a similar experience once. Checking my children on my way to bed I was puzzled and alarmed by the loft hatch, which was in their room, being half open. It wasn't like that when I put them to bed. I was eight and a half months pregnant and my husband was away. I slept in their room that night, directly under the hatch so that on the remote chance that anyone came through it, I would be there.

And did you discover what moved the cover?

[Robittybob1]

It's a logical conclusion, not a quote.

Kate said Madeleine's story was unlikely, implausible and improbable.

Why?

Because she didn't think the children would cry and then go back to sleep without being soothed.

She and Gerry then report Madeleine's story to the police the following day, and to the FLO's the day after that.

Why?

Because they decided there may be a 'sinister reason' for the occurrence. As Kate says;

it is my belief there was somebody either in or trying to get into the children’s bedroom that night, and that is what disturbed them. [madeleine]

It's clear to me that she is saying that she, with hindsight, now believes Madeleine's story.

If she believes it now, then she must have decided it's no longer unlikely, implausible and improbable.

The original reason for her doubts, of course, remains unaltered. The children did go back to sleep without being soothed. Kate now appears to have demolished her original reason for doubting the story.

Thanks for that reply, even though you have called it a logical conclusion there still remains an unexplained element to it for you say "Kate said Madeleine's story was unlikely, implausible and improbable. "

No doubt you have got sources for these descriptions.

[Wonderfulspam]

You make it sound like it was good think the discovery was found at night.  What would have been the problem if it was discovered at 8:00 AM next morning? There wouldn't be all the disturbance of the crime scene and the case may have been solved.

Someones alibi.

[Robittybob1]

Someones alibi.

New thread start to explore the What if of that,  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8999.0.

[G-Unit]

And did you discover what moved the cover?

My husband's theory was the wind did it.

[G-Unit]

Thanks for that reply, even though you have called it a logical conclusion there still remains an unexplained element to it for you say "Kate said Madeleine's story was unlikely, implausible and improbable. "

No doubt you have got sources for these descriptions.

'madeleine' by Kate McCann.

[Robittybob1]

'madeleine' by Kate McCann.

Was this you earliest quote using those words?  "My opinion is based on the evidence. Kate described the crying as improbable, unlikely and implausible. That's because she didn't think they'd cry and then go back to sleep without being soothed. Then Madeleine disappeared and she reported it to the PJ and the FLO's. She must have changed her mind, mustn't she if she's now reporting it as if it happened? She now seems prepared to accept that they did cry and go back to sleep on their own?

In my opinion children can cry a little and nod back off in the space of 30 minutes, but if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom going back to sleep really would be improbable, unlikely and implausible."

When I read quote it is your opinion not Kate's that it is "improbable, unlikely and implausible".

[G-Unit]

Was this you earliest quote using those words?  "My opinion is based on the evidence. Kate described the crying as improbable, unlikely and implausible. That's because she didn't think they'd cry and then go back to sleep without being soothed. Then Madeleine disappeared and she reported it to the PJ and the FLO's. She must have changed her mind, mustn't she if she's now reporting it as if it happened? She now seems prepared to accept that they did cry and go back to sleep on their own?

In my opinion children can cry a little and nod back off in the space of 30 minutes, but if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom going back to sleep really would be improbable, unlikely and implausible."

When I read quote it is your opinion not Kate's that it is "improbable, unlikely and implausible".

You could try reading the book one day;

If
so, it was worrying, obviously, but it didn’t seem very
probable. As I’ve said, not only did they rarely stir at
all at night, but if they did it was hardly ever, and I
mean ever, before the early hours. If they had done
so on this occasion, it would mean they’d woken up,
cried for a while, calmed themselves down and fallen
asleep again – all within the space of half an hour. Or
forty-five minutes, if it had been after our last check.
Children usually need some soothing back to sleep
once they’ve woken, especially if two of them are
awake and upset at the same time, and it seemed
highly unlikely they’d have gone through all these
stages without one of them overlapping with one of
our checks. It wasn’t impossible, but it seemed
implausible.
[madeleine]

[Robittybob1]

You could try reading the book one day;

If
so, it was worrying, obviously, but it didn’t seem very
probable. As I’ve said, not only did they rarely stir at
all at night, but if they did it was hardly ever, and I
mean ever, before the early hours. If they had done
so on this occasion, it would mean they’d woken up,
cried for a while, calmed themselves down and fallen
asleep again – all within the space of half an hour. Or
forty-five minutes, if it had been after our last check.
Children usually need some soothing back to sleep
once they’ve woken, especially if two of them are
awake and upset at the same time, and it seemed
highly unlikely they’d have gone through all these
stages without one of them overlapping with one of
our checks. It wasn’t impossible, but it seemed
implausible.
[madeleine]

The sentence "In my opinion children can cry a little and nod back off in the space of 30 minutes, but if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom going back to sleep really would be improbable, unlikely and implausible."  is your own opinion and understanding is it not?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't produce that quote from Madeleine AFAIK.

Now that is what I believe is at odds with what Kate is saying.  OK she does end up using the 3 words (improbable, unlikely and implausible) but in a completely different context.  She is talking about the kids being on their own but you have said "if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom" so they are not alone in your scenario. Different contexts IMO.

[sadie]

It is the concept of everyone remebering the attitude of the door, as they left it, with such clarity that baffles me.

We used to position the angle of the childrens doors opening virtually exactly each night.  We both knew the angle that was best for not too much and not too little light and we stuck to it.

[Robittybob1]

We used to position the angle of the childrens doors opening virtually exactly each night.  We both knew the angle that was best for not too much and not too little light and we stuck to it.

Do you think you ever gave yourself a false alarm due to you forgetting to set the angle?

[Robittybob1]

The sentence "In my opinion children can cry a little and nod back off in the space of 30 minutes, but if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom going back to sleep really would be improbable, unlikely and implausible."  is your own opinion and understanding is it not?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't produce that quote from Madeleine AFAIK.

Now that is what I believe is at odds with what Kate is saying.  OK she does end up using the 3 words (improbable, unlikely and implausible) but in a completely different context.  She is talking about the kids being on their own but you have said "if they were woken because there was an intruder in the bedroom" so they are not alone in your scenario. Different contexts IMO.

I have re-read my argument here and it is correct.  I know what you mean you might think the children would be additionally upset if the intruder was threatening toward the children, but for some reason I felt the intruder was someone who gave the kids the comfort that they would have got from their parents had they been there.