According to some, there is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction.

[Angelo222]

Davel said "There is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction so to say there is no evidence is untrue"  so what is this evidence?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9252.msg452338#msg452338

I haven't seen any such evidence, circumstantial or otherwise.  Tanner's sighting has been explained away as almost certainly an innocent tourist by the nice former DCI Redwood so that leaves a big fat zero in my book.

All that exists is proof she was there on the 3rd May but gone by 10pm that night. There never has been any evidence of an abduction, merely a wild claim by her parents whose crap parenting skills led to this mess in the first place.

[Wonderfulspam]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are apparently perfect in this world. Never, ever, having done anything that could be criticised, or that they wish they hadn't done in retrospect, or managed in a different way.

Perhaps I should enrol for lessons.

Who said anything about being perfect? Not me.

Not leaving young children unattended is using basic common sense.

I wouldn't leave a toddler unattended in a car parked on a slip way, for example.

That would be plain stupid.

[Angelo222]

I'm wondering if it's difficult (impossible?) for those who doubt the McCanns to concede that they (the McCanns) might actually have been truthful about what they discovered that night, and that therefore there is circumstantial evidence of abduction?

In that event Kate McCann had nothing to lose by cooperating with the Portuguese investigation which would have led to them being cleared.  She decided for whatever reason however that cooperating was not in her best interest so refused to answer the simplest of questions.  No wonder investigators found that suspicious and went on to form their own conclusions.

[Vertigo Swirl]

In that event Kate McCann had nothing to lose by cooperating with the Portuguese investigation which would have led to them being cleared.  She decided for whatever reason however that cooperating was not in her best interest so refused to answer the simplest of questions.

Does that mean she's guilty and that the McCanns evidence of abduction does not exist?

[Wonderfulspam]

‘When I was a boy, I could cycle out of town and be in fields in ten minutes. I knew where the birds’ nests and badger setts were. Now children’s mothers would tell them they need someone to go with them, to make sure they weren’t molested by a sexual deviant.

‘When I was about 13, I cycled from Leicester to the Lake District and back again, collecting fossils and staying in youth hostels. I was away for three weeks, and my mother and father didn’t know where I was. I doubt many parents would let children do that now.’  Sir David Attenborough
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2569361/Sir-David-Attenboroughs-childhood-memories.html#ixzz5AmH5pzeu


We've had this discussion ... how many times?

Until Kate returned to the apartment to find Madeleine gone the shutter raised and the bedroom window open it never occurred to her that the children were at risk from kidnap.
Praia da Luz was known as a child friendly holiday resort not the kidnap capital of the Algarve.

The fact that no one knows why the window had been opened or by whom or why it was put around by nationals familiar with that type of shutter that they were impossible to raise from outside when that is patently not so ~ are in my opinion evidence of illicit interference and poor interpretation of crime scene data.

For starters, there's a huge difference between 3 years old & 13.

I've never had this discussion with you at all before, thankyou very much.

The fact is, there is only Kate's claim that the window was discovered open & you have no way of knowing for sure that it was, or, indeed, that Maddie was actually kidnapped.

I don't believe she was & I'm not about to start pretending.

[jassi]

Does that mean she's guilty and that the McCanns evidence of abduction does not exist?

Who knows whether she is guilty or not ?
It's never been tested in court and  as far as casual  observers are concerned, it's all down to individual belief

[Vertigo Swirl]

Who knows whether she is guilty or not ?
It's never been tested in court and  as far as casual  observers are concerned, it's all down to individual belief

I was asking Angelo if he believed that refusal to answer questions (which was completely off topic to the question I asked but never mind) was evidence that Kate lied and that the evidence they put forward for abduction didn't actually exist. 

[jassi]

Didn't realise  you were running a private forum - I thought anyone could join in, as & when.

[faithlilly]

‘When I was a boy, I could cycle out of town and be in fields in ten minutes. I knew where the birds’ nests and badger setts were. Now children’s mothers would tell them they need someone to go with them, to make sure they weren’t molested by a sexual deviant.

‘When I was about 13, I cycled from Leicester to the Lake District and back again, collecting fossils and staying in youth hostels. I was away for three weeks, and my mother and father didn’t know where I was. I doubt many parents would let children do that now.’  Sir David Attenborough
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2569361/Sir-David-Attenboroughs-childhood-memories.html#ixzz5AmH5pzeu


We've had this discussion ... how many times?

Until Kate returned to the apartment to find Madeleine gone the shutter raised and the bedroom window open it never occurred to her that the children were at risk from kidnap.
Praia da Luz was known as a child friendly holiday resort not the kidnap capital of the Algarve.

The fact that no one knows why the window had been opened or by whom or why it was put around by nationals familiar with that type of shutter that they were impossible to raise from outside when that is patently not so ~ are in my opinion evidence of illicit interference and poor interpretation of crime scene data.

The McCanns and their friends decided to leave the children alone before they had any knowledge at all about PDL.
There is no independent evidence that the window was open upon Kate’s entry to the apartment. Whether you believe it rests entirely on faith.
99.9% of parents never leave their children alone, even in their own home, not because there is the chance of kidnap but because they know IT IS NOT SAFE IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

[slartibartfast]

Another one who finds it difficult, or near impossible to answer the question asked.  You seem to be implying that the McCanns are like Ronnie Biggs, ie: guilty of a serious crime.  Was that your intention?  Moreover, what evidence did Ronnie Biggs put forward that he wasn't involved in the robbery?  Furthermore where did I mention proof?

A very expected response.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Didn't realise  you were running a private forum - I thought anyone could join in, as & when.

???

[Vertigo Swirl]

A very expected response.

Likewise, further repeated failure to answer any questions put to you.  Why is it so hard to give honest, direct replies without resort to prevarications and red herrings like "Ronnie Biggs"?!

[slartibartfast]

Likewise, further repeated failure to answer any questions put to you.  Why is it so hard to give honest, direct replies without resort to prevarications and red herrings like "Ronnie Biggs"?!

It isn’t a red herring, the police should never accept the statement of a suspect as the only pointer to an alternative solution without serious questioning. (The answers to which would help clear things up).

[Vertigo Swirl]

It isn’t a red herring, the police should never accept the statement of a suspect as the only pointer to an alternative solution without serious questioning. (The answers to which would help clear things up).

Have I suggested otherwise?

[slartibartfast]

Have I suggested otherwise?

Yes.