What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom

[sadie]

Looking at this photo again,  before entering the bedroom you walk through a small alcove which I presume would almost be in shadow. 

I can't see how the light could light up bedroom, it would have been blocked by the alcove, light doesn't find itself around corners.

As Davel says , light does reflect to some extent off white walls .

But what you haven't taken into account Robin, is the fact that The Mccanns left a lamp on in the sitting room, so the alcove would be lit from that.

[sadie]

Gerry said he could see Madeleine without turning on the light so another contradiction. If you said he did then you can cite it because you won't find it any of his statements. These little things to many are trivial but can be infact the opposite.

"He (Gerry) glanced into our room to make sure Madeleine hadn’t wandered in there, as she was prone to do if ever she woke in the small hours. Seeing no little body curled up in our bed, he went over to look in on the children.
Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we’d left her."  (Madeleine)

Madeleine was lying down on her left side, she was completely uncovered, that is, lying on top of the covers. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

Especially as it appears that Gerry went right into the bedroom to look at Madeleine (and presumably the twins), his body woud not have been blocking the path of the light coming in from the sitting room.  And his eyes would have had longer to adjust to the darkness than someone just taking one step in then leaving immediately.

IMO

[Robin Banks]

As Davel says , light does reflect to some extent off white walls .

But what you haven't taken into account Robin, is the fact that The Mccanns left a lamp on in the sitting room, so the alcove would be lit from that.

Yes a lamp Sadie and not a main light, it would have been a very low wattage,  so just a dull light.  Which wouldn't of lit the alcove like the rest of the room, the alcove would have been in a shadow, thus allowing no light to the bedroom that the Children occupied.   

[sadie]

Position of street light 4/5/07

And you cant see it, because its lamp is hidden in the foliage of the trees.  Right in the middle of the head of the tree.

Not a lot of light coming from there to light the bedroom or the car park outside, is there?

Thanks for posting that image misty.  When I mentioned it before I had only worked it out from GEarth plan images .... and I dont know how to post those.

[sadie]

I would like to know how much light could have come through the open shutters and open curtains.

That's what we all would like to know Rob !   But not a lot, I suspect.

When I was there in 2010, the whole car park area was pretty dark, but most especially in the front door alcove, very dark! .... and the eastern end of the walled access pathway

[misty]

Sunset in Luz was 8.23pm on 3/5/07 iirc. There is a half hour of daylight after sunset before civil twilight commences which is "lighting up time". There would still be enough daylight at 9.10pm to see outside and the children's bedroom would not be in total darkness due to the open slats in the shutters. Gerry would have been able to see Madeleine in her bed without a great deal of difficulty.
By the time Kate got to the apartment, night darkness had fallen. Madeleine's bed was in the darkest part of the room, hence Kate could not see her as clearly as the twins in their cots closer to any street light penetrating the open window/shutters.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/portugal/faro to show variations of daylight/twilight times.

[sadie]

The Children's bedroom is very clear in the picture, the outside of the apartment has had some building work, the bedroom window runs flush with the outside wall now.

No, I dont think that you can see the childrens bedroom Robin.  The trees mask the ground floor hiding the walled passageway and the front door and Madeleines window.

[Robin Banks]

And you cant see it, because its lamp is hidden in the foliage of the trees.  Right in the middle of the head of the tree.

Not a lot of light coming from there to light the bedroom or the car park outside, is there?

Thanks for posting that image misty.  When I mentioned it before I had only worked it out from GEarth plan images .... and I dont know how to post those.

And a thank you from me too, just goes to show the Chidren's bedroom was darker than I ever imagined.  Also it was a very unnatural environment for Children to sleep in, bit like a room without a window. 

[sadie]

The apartment looked nothing like this on the night in other words!  Where have all the trees gone?

They were cut right down before the erm.. much celebrated Pat Browns visit.  And a new ?search? light was affixed to the wall about two stories above Madeleines window.


Strangely, only this treatment was given to this particular part of block 5.  The beautiful trees still remain at other parts of the car park surrounding block 5 and block 4.

Was it done especially for Pat Browns visit ?  I wonder why?

Actually I am being less than honest about that cos I think I know why.

[sadie]

Yes there would have been light in that car park from that street lamp.

Not a lot, because the lamp head is in the middle of the tree head

[sadie]

Front door to me means front door, usually the first door to the dwelling.

Yes It seems I have got the layout of the property very wrong,  sorry about that Folks.

We all make mistakes Robin.  It is good that you acnowledge it and have apologised.

As Rob says it might take you a time to understand the correct  layout, but it will come.

So much to learn; its a big case ... and confusiion between which was the front door and which was the back door in the early days didn't help

[Robin Banks]

As Davel says , light does reflect to some extent off white walls .

But what you haven't taken into account Robin, is the fact that The Mccanns left a lamp on in the sitting room, so the alcove would be lit from that.

I used to work in a very well known nightclub in London that had many alcoves,  I know how alcoves and light works, people are attracted to alcoves because they are dark and private, most drug deals are committed in such area's Sadie because of the darkness and privacy.  The Alcove shielded light from the bedroom, it didn't provide any light in my opinion.   

[sadie]

Can you tell when that photo was taken?  The article is in German  https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/In-Praia-da-Luz-wuerde-man-gern-vergessen-article19814942.html  but nothing that identifies the date the photo was taken.

Massive foliage was there in mid 2010, Rob, when Í first visited

All gone on my second visit, which was after Pat Browns erm.... Illustrious visit

[Robin Banks]

We all make mistakes Robin.  It is good that you acnowledge it and have apologised.

As Rob says it might take you a time to understand the correct  layout, but it will come.

So much to learn; its a big case ... and confusiion between which was the front door and which was the back door in the early days didn't help

If someone can prove me wrong I'm up for that, I don't have a problem with apologizing, you can't move forward if you think you are always right Sadie.

[sadie]

Yes a lamp Sadie and not a main light, it would have been a very low wattage,  so just a dull light.  Which wouldn't of lit the alcove like the rest of the room, the alcove would have been in a shadow, thus allowing no light to the bedroom that the Children occupied.   

How do you know that Robin?

I think that you are making an assumption, unless you were there

AIMHO