Author Topic: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom  (Read 120122 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #405 on: May 29, 2018, 05:05:08 PM »
well seeing you asked.

The door was in that position anyway - what i did feel was the strong draught on my face. waiting for it to slam

I also tried it wide open ...nothing - surely she would have seen window or felt draught first.if door open wider
That would depend on how close she was.  In her demonstration of the event she seems rather close and I have wondered about the draught too.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 10:00:24 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #406 on: May 29, 2018, 09:37:40 PM »
well seeing you asked.

The door was in that position anyway - what i did feel was the strong draught on my face. waiting for it to slam

I also tried it wide open ...nothing - surely she would have seen window or felt draught first.if door open wider

You describe an exact situation in the side entrance of my home.  If doors are open and it is windy one door with slam shut depending on the wind direction. However ,when windows are left open wide, the doors do not slam shut.

It was dark Kate didn't see Maddie because it was dark and she didn't see the twins from the doorway as she was too far away and it was DARK-unless someone can cite where the light was coming from....I do not believe Gerry saw Maddie either on his visit because it was  too dark.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline kmoore1967

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #407 on: May 30, 2018, 03:29:24 AM »
You describe an exact situation in the side entrance of my home.  If doors are open and it is windy one door with slam shut depending on the wind direction. However ,when windows are left open wide, the doors do not slam shut.

It was dark Kate didn't see Maddie because it was dark and she didn't see the twins from the doorway as she was too far away and it was DARK-unless someone can cite where the light was coming from....I do not believe Gerry saw Maddie either on his visit because it was  too dark.

I live in an apartment building, but I live on the first floor. Those above me all have sliding glass doors and we are constantly reminded that if our doors are open and the sliding doors are also open, they slam shut.

Even with my bedroom window open, sometimes my door will do that.

But without the lights on, I can't see what is on the opposite side of my bedroom.

Offline kizzy

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #408 on: May 30, 2018, 11:02:29 AM »
That would depend on how close she was.  In her demonstration of the event she seems rather close and I have wondered about the draught too.

A window open - is not the same as a door

The room was was not all that big - two beds chest of drawers.

That would make it roughly 3 mtr [same as my kitchen] so very close to window.

The draught would blow through   on her face - although not legs...before the so called slamming.

Why did she not feel that draught blowing when door was open wider - or when closing it.

Or why did the door not slam shut - when opening patio doors

Offline kizzy

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #409 on: May 30, 2018, 11:04:52 AM »
You describe an exact situation in the side entrance of my home.  If doors are open and it is windy one door with slam shut depending on the wind direction. However ,when windows are left open wide, the doors do not slam shut.

It was dark Kate didn't see Maddie because it was dark and she didn't see the twins from the doorway as she was too far away and it was DARK-unless someone can cite where the light was coming from....I do not believe Gerry saw Maddie either on his visit because it was  too dark.


Yes that was my point MTI

A window open is different to a door - so how was it possible for that door to slam shut

I Don't think gmccann saw maddie either - to coincidental he had his proud father moment in the dark.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #410 on: May 30, 2018, 12:46:18 PM »

Yes that was my point MTI

A window open is different to a door - so how was it possible for that door to slam shut

I Don't think gmccann saw maddie either - to coincidental he had his proud father moment in the dark.
Kate pulled it and the window took over when the door was just agar.
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Offline Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #411 on: May 30, 2018, 02:27:35 PM »
Kate pulled it and the window took over when the door was just agar.

Why would Kate embellish what happened?  She didn't have to justify in any way the fact of discovering one of the children was missing.  She only had to say something along the lines of: ... "I entered the apartment via the patio door, when I checked the children in their beds, I noticed the window was open etc etc etc ..."

She is not a stupid woman who would take the risk of over egging the pudding.  Had there been any intentional subterfuge ... why didn't someone actually 'jemmy' the shutter?

In my opinion, Kate described exactly what she saw ... why on earth wouldn't she?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline kmoore1967

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #412 on: May 30, 2018, 03:39:55 PM »
Why would Kate embellish what happened?  She didn't have to justify in any way the fact of discovering one of the children was missing.  She only had to say something along the lines of: ... "I entered the apartment via the patio door, when I checked the children in their beds, I noticed the window was open etc etc etc ..."

She is not a stupid woman who would take the risk of over egging the pudding.  Had there been any intentional subterfuge ... why didn't someone actually 'jemmy' the shutter?

In my opinion, Kate described exactly what she saw ... why on earth wouldn't she?

Here are the problems I have with that.

1: Kate never went out to check the shutter, she automatically said it was jimmied (American spelling)
2: Given the time frames, the person jimmying the shutter would have been in full view of everyone passing by.
3: The police looked at the shutter and said it had not been jimmied.
4: The shutter was not fully up, being halfway down it would have prevented a man entering and exiting said window.
5: They put the shutter in its position.
6: If there had not been intentional subterfuge, she wouldn't have not responded to police questioning.

And yes, a child is presumably missing, she would have to justify everything she claimed. And they made it an international case in the media and milked the media for a long time, therefore they opened themselves to make account for every single statement they make.

Now ask yourself, would you milk the media for so long to get attention and money, all the time still working and doing things without actually spending your money on searching yourself? To simply pay private detectives is not you yourself searching.

The media was a cash cow for the McCanns, so yes, they have to account for every word, every detail, every statement.

But also this, instead of calling the police right away, why did they wait for another half hour and it was the employees who called the police?

Who was it who told the police Maddie had been in that room sleeping? Kate and Gerry. We see the bed obviously was not slept in. Matt never witnessed Maddie or the twins.

And another thing, since Jane said she saw a man carrying a child at 9:15...how does a kidnapper walk away with some man's kid when the father is standing right there in open view? Jane casually mentioned it later.

If that was the kidnapper, don't you think he would have been a little more anxious considering the father had just been there at 9, and stayed on the sidewalk until after 9:15? Kidnappers tend to case places, so to do it where he knew the father was at....incredible IMO.

And Matt went to check a full 15 minutes AFTER Jane, which means Matt never witnessed anything if what Jane claimed was true.





Offline Brietta

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #413 on: May 30, 2018, 05:20:11 PM »
Here are the problems I have with that.

1: Kate never went out to check the shutter, she automatically said it was jimmied (American spelling)
2: Given the time frames, the person jimmying the shutter would have been in full view of everyone passing by.
3: The police looked at the shutter and said it had not been jimmied.
4: The shutter was not fully up, being halfway down it would have prevented a man entering and exiting said window.
5: They put the shutter in its position.
6: If there had not been intentional subterfuge, she wouldn't have not responded to police questioning.

And yes, a child is presumably missing, she would have to justify everything she claimed. And they made it an international case in the media and milked the media for a long time, therefore they opened themselves to make account for every single statement they make.

Now ask yourself, would you milk the media for so long to get attention and money, all the time still working and doing things without actually spending your money on searching yourself? To simply pay private detectives is not you yourself searching.

The media was a cash cow for the McCanns, so yes, they have to account for every word, every detail, every statement.

But also this, instead of calling the police right away, why did they wait for another half hour and it was the employees who called the police?

Who was it who told the police Maddie had been in that room sleeping? Kate and Gerry. We see the bed obviously was not slept in. Matt never witnessed Maddie or the twins.

And another thing, since Jane said she saw a man carrying a child at 9:15...how does a kidnapper walk away with some man's kid when the father is standing right there in open view? Jane casually mentioned it later.

If that was the kidnapper, don't you think he would have been a little more anxious considering the father had just been there at 9, and stayed on the sidewalk until after 9:15? Kidnappers tend to case places, so to do it where he knew the father was at....incredible IMO.

And Matt went to check a full 15 minutes AFTER Jane, which means Matt never witnessed anything if what Jane claimed was true.
1: Kate never went out to check the shutter, she automatically said it was jimmied (American spelling)
Kate NEVER claimed the shutter had been jemmied (Scottish spelling)

2: Given the time frames, the person jimmying the shutter would have been in full view of everyone passing by.
Apart from Mrs Murat’s sighting of the woman at the lamppost; Jes Wilkin’s sighting of a woman in a purple top outside the apartment; Jes – Jane – Gerry and Tannerman on the street at the same time … who were these numerous passersby you mention walking to and from where? 
The bedroom window was not on the main drag and realistically only someone walking to the McCann front door would be passing by (discussed as nauseam on the forum)

3: The police looked at the shutter and said it had not been jimmied.
When did they do and say that?  Cite, please.

4: The shutter was not fully up, being halfway down it would have prevented a man entering and exiting said window.
Gerry interfered with the crime scene by lowering the shutter and attempting to raise it from outside.

5: They put the shutter in its position.
As noted above (4) … that is what Gerry and Diane claimed

6: If there had not been intentional subterfuge, she wouldn't have not responded to police questioning.
That is a totally erroneous statement.  She answered ALL the police questions and volunteered information later leaked to the press.

And yes, a child is presumably missing, she would have to justify everything she claimed.
??? ??? What was to justify?  Madeleine’s disappearance was irrefutable.

And they made it an international case in the media and milked the media for a long time, therefore they opened themselves to make account for every single statement they make.
The situation regarding publicity on behalf of a missing child is again something we have discussed ad nauseam on the forum.  In my opinion they were not accountable to answer any spurious leak to the Portuguese press even if the secrecy laws hadn’t made it impossible for them to do so.

Now ask yourself, would you milk the media for so long to get attention and money, all the time still working and doing things without actually spending your money on searching yourself?
‘Milk the media’? how exactly does one do that to a media making big bucks out of your missing child?
You will need to provide a cite for the money you quote … apart from the damages they were paid for defamation.

Again you are posting misinformation ... Kate McCann wrote a best selling book ... the profits for which went into the fund to pay for the search for Madeleine.
She wrote the book to make the money because there was little in the fund at the time ... that was her own money which went not into her own bank account but into Madeleine's fund.

To answer your question, were my child missing and I found myself in a similar situation to Madeleine's parents I would pray that I had the hope, the determination, the tenacity and the courage to attempt what they did.
I doubt I would have been able to though ... because I am sure I could not have endured the hatred and vitriol which they have suffered as a result of their efforts for their daughter.
That must take some strength of character to endure.

 To simply pay private detectives is not you yourself searching.

Again a much discussed aspect on the forum.  Exactly what is your suggestion for what they should have done and continued doing from 2007 until 2013 to search for Madeleine?

I had to pay an electrician to do some work for me.  Is it your contention I should have done it myself?

The media was a cash cow for the McCanns, so yes, they have to account for every word, every detail, every statement.

Please provide appropriate cites for 'cash cow'

But also this, instead of calling the police right away, why did they wait for another half hour and it was the employees who called the police?
Discussed ad nauseam and in my opinion police are informed of a missing child once all reasonable steps have been taken to ensure the child is actually missing … which really doesn’t take too long.

Who was it who told the police Maddie had been in that room sleeping? Kate and Gerry. We see the bed obviously was not slept in. Matt never witnessed Maddie or the twins.
Your opinion that the bed had not been slept in is mistaken.
Who confirms your children are sleeping in their beds at night?  Do you invite the neighbours in to check?

And another thing, since Jane said she saw a man carrying a child at 9:15...how does a kidnapper walk away with some man's kid when the father is standing right there in open view?
Quite obviously the father did not know his child was being kidnapped.  Why would he?  He had just left her sleeping peacefully in her bed.
Jane casually mentioned it later.
Jane was distraught at what she had witnessed when she heard of Madeleine's disappearance and her information was passed to the police immediately they arrived.

If that was the kidnapper, don't you think he would have been a little more anxious considering the father had just been there at 9, and stayed on the sidewalk until after 9:15? Kidnappers tend to case places, so to do it where he knew the father was at....incredible IMO.
I doubt that the kidnapper following the tendency you suggest did not expect any deviation from the routine of an immediate return to the tapas restaurant after checking.
Why would he have risked attracting attention by showing any anxiety ... he must have known that the men talking to each other did not see him, and the woman approaching who actually did see him thought little of him.
That might not have been the case had he started running or showing other signs of anxiety.

And Matt went to check a full 15 minutes AFTER Jane, which means Matt never witnessed anything if what Jane claimed was true.
With due respect … in my opinion that statement is nonsense. How could Matt witness an event which had happened before he arrived on the scene?

« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 01:23:08 AM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #414 on: May 30, 2018, 05:55:09 PM »
I would like to see how much Kmoore1967 has actually researched themself rather that just cut and pasting from other sites.  You've asked for cites, it will be interesting to see if there is a response.
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline jassi

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #415 on: May 30, 2018, 05:57:34 PM »
I would like to see how much Kmoore1967 has actually researched themself rather that just cut and pasting from other sites.  You've asked for cites, it will be interesting to see if there is a response.

Is cut & paste a crime now ?

I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline slartibartfast

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #416 on: May 30, 2018, 06:00:18 PM »
Is cut & paste a crime now ?

That could cramp some styles...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 09:14:24 PM by John »
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #417 on: May 30, 2018, 06:06:38 PM »

Be brave enough to say where the cut and paste came from if that is how you came up with the information.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 06:41:21 PM by Brietta »
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline jassi

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #418 on: May 30, 2018, 06:07:37 PM »
That could cramp some styles...

Indeed it could, though it'll likely save some bandwidth  ?{)(**
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom
« Reply #419 on: May 30, 2018, 06:10:20 PM »
Indeed it could, though it'll likely save some bandwidth  ?{)(**
If you run out of bandwidth use smoke signals instead.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.