Evidence of a kitchen fight:

[Holly Goodhead]

You would expect Sheila to definately have dirty feet. She had walked around WHF for a long period. Before, during & after the massacre.  WHF was not very clean.

Blood on her feet would also be likely. There was blood on the kitchen & main bedroom floor. Sheila returned to the main bedroom to shoot June again & shoot herself. She also returned to the kitchen to chamber, breach & reload as well as burn Nevill's back.

Sugar on her feet is less likely. Wet blood on her feet may have helped sugar stick on her feet. However it is likely to fall off as she walked upstairs.

Apart from the blood that pooled around NB other blood in the kitchen was described as a "light distribution" contained in one area. 

[Caroline]

There's no evidence WHF was dirty.  WHF was a working farm and the kitchen indicative of a farming couple in their 60's during the mid 80's.  The place looks somewhat untidy by today's minimalist style but there's no evidence the floors were dirty. By comparison the cops involved in the Bain case describe the place as an absolute pig style with bad smells etc. I appreciate the stairs closed off near the welsh dresser appear to show damp and dirty cleaning cloths but this wasn't used and noone expected it to enter the public domain.

Come on Holly. the place wasn't clean, you can see that. You admit it was a working farm, people walking in and out of the kitchen with dusty shoes/boots. The state of the kitchen (dust wise) didn't form part of the evidence because the pictures tell a story.

[Angelo222]

No bloodstained clothing, towels or anything else found anywhere in the farmhouse and no blood spots on the bath or sink tells its own story imo.

However blood found under the seat of Nevill's car and on Jeremy Bamber's bathrobe in his cottage tells a different story.  Maybe he cut himself shaving or just maybe he got a bloody nose in the kitchen scuffle?

[Caroline]

Yes the stock was found broken but there's no forensic or pathological evidence to show how this came about or the force required. 

the evidence IS, that it broke off - what kind of other evidence do you need? These things don't just drop to pieces on their own. You keep declaring there is no evidence when the evidence is quite clear, such as Nevil being battered. Venezis listed his 'other injuries' and they were extensive!

[Holly Goodhead]

Come on Holly. the place wasn't clean, you can see that. You admit it was a working farm, people walking in and out of the kitchen with dusty shoes/boots. The state of the kitchen (dust wise) didn't form part of the evidence because the pictures tell a story.

Who walked in and out of the kitchen with dusty shoes/boots?  The path from outside to kitchen went via the rear hall which featured the settle.  I can't see any dirt/debris on the carpets?  The main bedroom carpet is light colored and looks clean to my eyes apart from obviously the blood stains.

[Holly Goodhead]

the evidence IS, that it broke off - what kind of other evidence do you need? These things don't just drop to pieces on their own. You keep declaring there is no evidence when the evidence is quite clear, such as Nevil being battered. Venezis listed his 'other injuries' and they were extensive!

No one is denying NB sustained injuries from a "blunt instrument" but what evidence exists to show SC was unable to inflict these injuries? 

No one is denying the stock broke but what evidence exists to show SC was unable to use the rifle in some way she caused the stock to break? 

[adam]

Apart from the blood that pooled around NB other blood in the kitchen was described as a "light distribution" contained in one area.

I thought Nevill would be badly bleeding from his 4 upstairs shots. Which according to supporters were so damaging, Nevill could not have put up any resistance in the kitchen.   

Blood would scatter around the kitchen from his wounds as the fight progressed. Which Sheila would stand in during the fight or afterwards when re loading. Or in both instances. 

Wouldn't Sheila step in Nevill's blood when burning his back & shooting him another 4 times ? She would have to go within inches of Nevill in order to lift his pyjama top up.

[Alice]

You would expect Sheila to definately have dirty feet. She had walked around WHF for a long period. Before, during & after the massacre.  WHF was not very clean.

Blood on her feet would also be likely. There was blood on the kitchen & main bedroom floor. Sheila returned to the main bedroom to shoot June again & shoot herself. She also returned to the kitchen to chamber, breach & reload as well as burn Nevill's back.

Sugar on her feet is less likely. Wet blood on her feet may have helped sugar stick on her feet. However it is likely to fall off as she walked upstairs.

I still maintain that if Sheila had been in the kitchen during the fight some grains would have been found. You would be amazed at how long small particles can adhere to feet and what crevices they can get into. The photos are not the feet of a woman who has moved about in a wrecked kitchen in my opinion. One of the best ways to incapacitate a barefoot assailant is to stamp on a foot and there is no evidence at all of this happening.

[John]

I still maintain that if Sheila had been in the kitchen during the fight some grains would have been found. You would be amazed at how long small particles can adhere to feet and what crevices they can get into. The photos are not the feet of a woman who has moved about in a wrecked kitchen in my opinion. One of the best ways to incapacitate a barefoot assailant is to stamp on a foot and there is no evidence at all of this happening.

I know Holly has made a valiant attempt to defend Jeremy Bamber but one simply cannot ignore the common sense approach to evidence which is before our very noses. Sheila was unfamiliar with firearms, actually hated the things, yet we are supposed to believe she picked up a weapon which she knew very little about, was able to load it twice and managed to get off over twenty shots all mostly on target and only missed once?  And that is without mentioning the scuffle or fight for control of the rifle over the kitchen table in which Sheila doesn't receive a single scratch or blood from her alleged victim.

I will add this. Nevill Bamber was over six foot tall, a farmer, strong and relatively fit for his age.  He was a RAF veteran pilot who fought off the Nazis over the English channel.  He was quite capable of taking on a feeble young woman who might have had a melt down despite being shot with a .22 rifle. He brought up Sheila as his own, he did everything for her even renting a flat for her in London. Sheila for her part doted on her father, the whole notion that she would try to destroy him is quite ridiculous in my view and only adds to the physical evidence.

[adam]

I still maintain that if Sheila had been in the kitchen during the fight some grains would have been found. You would be amazed at how long small particles can adhere to feet and what crevices they can get into. The photos are not the feet of a woman who has moved about in a wrecked kitchen in my opinion. One of the best ways to incapacitate a barefoot assailant is to stamp on a foot and there is no evidence at all of this happening.

On second thoughts, you could be right about the sugar. The COA said -

49.

DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse.

He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact. The deceased's feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.

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The COA would not say this unless there would have been a good chance of sugar being on a 'dead' Sheila's feet.

[Caroline]

Who walked in and out of the kitchen with dusty shoes/boots?  The path from outside to kitchen went via the rear hall which featured the settle.  I can't see any dirt/debris on the carpets?  The main bedroom carpet is light colored and looks clean to my eyes apart from obviously the blood stains.

Everyone who came in and out of the house and dust doesn't just remain near the door or there would be no need for dusters and vacuum cleaner. You can't see small particles of dirt Holly.

[Holly Goodhead]

I thought Nevill would be badly bleeding from his 4 upstairs shots. Which according to supporters were so damaging, Nevill could not have put up any resistance in the kitchen.   

Blood would scatter around the kitchen from his wounds as the fight progressed. Which Sheila would stand in during the fight or afterwards when re loading. Or in both instances. 

Wouldn't Sheila step in Nevill's blood when burning his back & shooting him another 4 times ? She would have to go within inches of Nevill in order to lift his pyjama top up.

The blood on the kitchen floor was described as not heavy and very light:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=217

No one reported observing bloody footprints from officers, SC, JB or bloody paw prints from Crispy. 

Prof Knight testified that in his opinion the marks were not burns.  I don't believe the marks are connected.

[Holly Goodhead]

On second thoughts, you could be right about the sugar. The COA said -

49.

DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse.

He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact. The deceased's feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.

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The COA would not say this unless there would have been a good chance of sugar being on a 'dead' Sheila's feet.

The CoA doc was produced by 3 lawyers.  Lawyers are not forensic scientists.  There's no earthly reason why SC's feet would be blood stained and/or contain sugar and/or contain debris or be damaged in some way.

The blood distribution was described as "light". The brown sugar was confined to one area and the lampshade was described as broken; there's no evidence of "shards".  It's all contained in DC Hammersley's trial testimony:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=215

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=217

The state of SC's feet as found by police officers and pathologist ie clean to the naked eye and free of debris and damage is entirely consistent with SC as perp.

[Alice]

But it's not that big a kitchen. I think it is improbable that Sheila or anyone could have launched that sort of attack, which would require a lot of movement and not picked up debris or dirt. They had been harvesting that day and had been in and out of the kitchen continuously - that is a grubby and dusty job and dirt would have been shed from clothes and feet onto the floor.

[Caroline]

No one is denying NB sustained injuries from a "blunt instrument" but what evidence exists to show SC was unable to inflict these injuries? 

No one is denying the stock broke but what evidence exists to show SC was unable to use the rifle in some way she caused the stock to break?

I didn't say she wasn't but as we have gone over before, I don't believe for one moment she could have smacked him over the head hard enough to brake the stock of the rifle and not have him blood on her person. According to at least one source, Nevil's brain was exposed. That was some smack - try hitting a watermelon in the same manner without getting it on yourself.