Mark Warner Holidays

[G-Unit]

Another difference is nannies stand outside doors listening, parents enter the room to check all is well.  Which is better?

Neither is ideal in my opinion. As the mumsnet poster observed there are potential problems with leaving children alone to cry in a strange place, not to mention the potential for mobile children to have an accident.

Neither of the McCann parents had any intention of entering the children's bedroom either. Their intention was to listen inside the apartment every 30 minutes. Therefore listening outside the apartment every 15 minutes is slightly better. Both methods ignore the fact that noise isn't the only sign that something is wrong.

[Vertigo Swirl]

You differ from this group then. Given the chance they would happily have handed the responsibility to strangers.

I personally wouldn't be happy let my young kids spend the day taking part in chaperoned activities such as swimming and sailing either, but millions of parents do apparently.  I don't judge them, it's entirely up to them what decisions they make for their kids, provided it's legal. 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Neither is ideal in my opinion. As the mumsnet poster observed there are potential problems with leaving children alone to cry in a strange place, not to mention the potential for mobile children to have an accident.

Neither of the McCann parents had any intention of entering the children's bedroom either. Their intention was to listen inside the apartment every 30 minutes. Therefore listening outside the apartment every 15 minutes is slightly better. Both methods ignore the fact that noise isn't the only sign that something is wrong.

Both parents DID enter the apartment and the bedroom, if one of them hadn't then and it had been a nanny listening outside then it could have been a further two hours before Madeleine's disappearance was discovered.  How is that better, in your view?

[G-Unit]

Both parents DID enter the apartment and the bedroom, if one of them hadn't then and it had been a nanny listening outside then it could have been a further two hours before Madeleine's disappearance was discovered.  How is that better, in your view?

They had no intention of entering the bedroom. They only did so, apparently, because of a mysteriously moving door. If the Mark Warner listening service had been operating the apartment would have been in an enclosed area and the nannies would have been nearby. Anyone entering an apartment and leaving with a child would have been far more likely to have been seen.

[Vertigo Swirl]

They had no intention of entering the bedroom. They only did so, apparently, because of a mysteriously moving door. If the Mark Warner listening service had been operating the apartment would have been in an enclosed area and the nannies would have been nearby. Anyone entering an apartment and leaving with a child would have been far more likely to have been seen.

Do you have a cite for "they had no intention of entering the bedroom"?  In any case, it doesn't matter because by entering the apartment they were able to SEE that something wasn't quite as they expected it to be, so they were able to cast aside their intentions and enter the bedroom, something nannies listening at the door would not have been able to do.  You still haven't explained what "nearby" means - how near is nearby?  How many apartments per nanny watch?  How far would the furthest point be that a nanny's watch would extend?  Do you have any idea? 

[Miss Taken Identity]

You differ from this group then. Given the chance they would happily have handed the responsibility to strangers.

Which they did for day time activities anyway.  We need to remember they had planned to leave the children alone every night anyway before they left the UK- DP took a baby listening device [we don't know if the radio signal was strong or not]. They ALL noticed that they were not in a MW resort on arrival. Their arrangements could have been changed accordingly.

Also, it was stated that the Tapas group did NOT check each others children at night.. However, some  made an exception the night MBM disappeared, it was also the only night the parents did physical checks in the bedroom. I mean the one night an  alleged abductor chose to steal the child was one where everyone but the alleged  abductor got within spitting distance - apparently

[G-Unit]

Do you have a cite for "they had no intention of entering the bedroom"?  In any case, it doesn't matter because by entering the apartment they were able to SEE that something wasn't quite as they expected it to be, so they were able to cast aside their intentions and enter the bedroom, something nannies listening at the door would not have been able to do.  You still haven't explained what "nearby" means - how near is nearby?  How many apartments per nanny watch?  How far would the furthest point be that a nanny's watch would extend?  Do you have any idea?

Yes I do. In Kate's case she was all set to return the door to it's correct location and go. She only looked into the bedroom because, she said, the door slammed as she went to pull it to.

Whichever way you twist it, they weren't copying the MW listening service and they weren't providing an improvement either.

The roads were open to the public, which Mark Warner complexes weren't.
The gaps between checks were twice as long as the MW checks.
They were unavailable between checks while MW staff were still out and about in the vicinity.

[Robittybob1]

Why?

If a child goes missing were the people in neighbouring properties trustworthy?

[G-Unit]

If a child goes missing were the people in neighbouring properties trustworthy?

Are unknown people less trustworthy than other holidaymakers?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Yes I do. In Kaye's case she was all set to return the door to it's correct location and go. She only looked into the bedroom because, she said, the door slammed as she went to pull it to.

Whichever way you twist it, they weren't copying the MW listening service and they weren't providing an improvement either.

The roads were open to the public, which Mark Warner complexes weren't.
The gaps between checks were twice as long as the MW checks.
They were unavailable between checks while MW staff were still out and about in the vicinity.

If indeed it was every 30 mins... Mrs Fenn suggests otherwise as a child cried for over an hour on one occasion.

If a child goes missing were the people in neighbouring properties trustworthy?

who knows... and the tapas didn't do police checks anyway- they claimed 'it felt safe'  but then we have Kate saying she didn't feel right about leaving them after the woke up crying incident, BUT left them anyway  even after being challenged by their 3 year old daughter. why did you leave us... This child enquiry did not phase them in the least. because we don't get the full story.  I would expect they would say 'sorry darling were you afraid? we won't do it again'.. but none of that!   

[Vertigo Swirl]

Yes I do. In Kate's case she was all set to return the door to it's correct location and go. She only looked into the bedroom because, she said, the door slammed as she went to pull it to.

Whichever way you twist it, they weren't copying the MW listening service and they weren't providing an improvement either.

The roads were open to the public, which Mark Warner complexes weren't.
The gaps between checks were twice as long as the MW checks.
They were unavailable between checks while MW staff were still out and about in the vicinity.

You are being unfairly pedantic IMO They were copying the MW listening service - ie: regular checks on their kids by visiting the apartments in which their children lay sleeping, though perhaps in order to copy it exactly as per your expectations they should have gone on a training course and had it explained to them the difference between THIS MW resort and others.   How many minutes between 9pm and 10pm was a member of the Tapas group in close proximity to Apartment 5a, given that the walls were so thin that a child crying would be clearly audible even as you approached the apartment, allegedly? 

[Alice Purjorick]

If a child goes missing were the people in neighbouring properties trustworthy?

As Jassi has pointed out at least twice, that is after the event.
What measures do you suggest should be put in place to ensure the people who buy the properties or even rent them are trustworthy?
What persons or organisations will be the arbiter of "trustworthy" and what checks will they perform necessary to determine this "trustworthiness".

[Miss Taken Identity]

As Jassi has pointed out at least twice, that is after the event.
What measures do you suggest should be put in place to ensure the people who buy the properties or even rent them are trustworthy?
What persons or organisations will be the arbiter of "trustworthy" and what checks will they perform necessary to determine this "trustworthiness".

Dear Alice, what are you thinking. The Tapas group were the arbitrers. The risk assessment they took, and made public include:  it was like sitting in the garden
                       It felt safe - looking at the buildings around the flats
                        We could see  the apartment from where we were sitting we were that close.

Unfortunatly they didn't risk assess for their assets being destroyed/disappearing. via  Fire, flood, paedo gangs wandering etc.
                       

[Alice Purjorick]

If they were on a 15 minute checking period then that's twice as frequent as the McCann's chosen frequency, so that's another difference. I assume the nannies had charge of different areas so it's the size of those areas which matters, not the spread of the apartments as a whole. Also the nannies were around. They weren't in a bar or restaurant between checks, they were outside walking the paths and able to see and hear anything suspicious. Here's an account suggesting 15 minute intervals with the MW system, along with a normal parent's misgivings about the system;

We went to Sardinia with Mark Warner last year and children were unwelcome at dinner. You were supposed to use the baby listening service, which consisted of leaving the child alone in the room and every 15 minutes a nanny would physically go and stand outside the door to listen. If the child was crying she'd walk over to the restaurant to fetch you. A lot of parents used this but I thought it was unsafe and mean to let a child cry in a strange hotel room all alone. Also, my son could climb out of the cot and knew how to open the door to the balcony, so I thought he could easily have met with accident in 15 minutes. Why don't you ring up the hotel and ask exactly what they offer and then you can decide if it would suit your child?
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_advice_tips/2633-baby-listening

That restores my faith in human nature a little.
Telephone, email Streetmap Googlemaps all up and running before 2007 so dead easy to "run a tape over it to see if it fits"..........................
Jeez perish the thought of being responsible for your own actions.

[Robittybob1]

As Jassi has pointed out at least twice, that is after the event.
What measures do you suggest should be put in place to ensure the people who buy the properties or even rent them are trustworthy?
What persons or organisations will be the arbiter of "trustworthy" and what checks will they perform necessary to determine this "trustworthiness".

The PJ at least need to know how to contact these people and have access to their apartments.