Mark Warner Holidays

[sadie]

Sadie do you think "642" was Fiona Payne?  I have my doubts.
Do you think the lady over the shoulder of Kate is Rachael?

642 wasn't obvious to me, so I didn't bother to check it Rob.  It was easier to use the photo with Russell and Rachael and compare to the photo with Gerry and Rachael and Fiona.    But certainly using her height and physique, 642 could be Fiona.

I am positive that the lady over the shoulder of Kate is Rachael

[Robittybob1]

642 wasn't obvious to me, so I didn't bother to check it Rob.  It was erasier to use the photo with Russell and Rachael and compare to the photo with Gerry and Rachael and Fiona.    But certainly using her height and physique, 642 could be Fiona.

I am positive that the lady over the shoulder of Kate is Rachael

I was thinking 642 was not Fiona as her hair was parting on a different side.

[sadie]

Rachael was facing 5A, and therefore the plastic 'window'. She was pretty much opposite to Gerry, who had his back to 5A and the window. If he looked at Fiona and Kate he would see what was behind them which was the Tapas reception. Unless his peripheral vision is superhuman, he couldn't see 5A from his seat without turning round.

you are not correct, Gunit.   You have to zoom into Google Earth and be aware of exactly how far round the table Gerry sat.  40* is nearly 45* which is an angle that most of us are familiar with. 
Kates drawing, whilst being neat, has the various people incorrectly spaced ... and that is misleading.



5A was not immediately across (behind) from the table.  Some of the more westerly flats in block 5 were immediately behind Fiona ... but 5A was not.   5A was in more of an easterly direction, along a bit.

My screen is extra wide so I cant measure angles precisely (as I can distances).  However, it appears that Gerry is rather more facing 5A than having his back towards it.   It looks like the angle that Gerry is at to apartment 5A is about 50* .  So he is shoulder on, with Fiona more or less in front of his line of vision to 5A.


However these angles are as in a perfect world

Kate and Gerry were there first and obviously made room for Fiona.  Gerry is a big and expansive man and I cant see him having less than his share. 

Also he was basically an excellent and caring father to his young family, as can be seen from videos on the internet ... and can be heard from various people who knew them.***   

WE dont know, but I think it quite likely that he would chose his exact position bearing in mind his ability and view to visually check 5A. 

In other words with his size and expansiveness, I find it doubtful that he would have less than his 40* portiion but would more likely have a little more to ensure his ability to see 5A. 


But we cant be certain, can we ?   




***  No, I am not giving cites because it is common knowledge   

[sadie]

I was thinking 642 was not Fiona as her hair was parting on a different side.

I wasn't sure, so I chose a photo that definitely identified Fiona.

I hadn't noticed the parting tbh, but that is quite a compelling fact.   Most people do not change their parting side

[Robittybob1]

BRILLIANT.
Thank you Gunit ... once again you have helped solve something that was worrying me about the case.


There were nine people in  the Tapas group, so when they were sitting around the 360* table, they were placed at 40* intervals     [360*/9 = 40*].    Fiona had her back to the plastic curtain wall.  Gerry was at 40* to it.   .

When talking to Fiona, Gerry was virtually looking at the patio of 5A, because it was almost directly behind her.


A photo of the petite dark haired  Rachael below standing immediately behind Kate and Gerry.  It shows how much shorter she was than Gerry.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/2-4-11/10472805.jpg



Fiona was shorter than Rachael as you can see from this photo    [This is beginning to sound like a Ronnie Corbett and Ronnie Barker sketch ] 

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/RachelOldfield-FionaPayne-RussellOBs.jpg



From these two photos, you can see just how much taller Gerry is than the petite Fiona sitting next to him

 

With Fiona being so petite and Gerry being so tall, he could see the illuminated patio area, even over her head.  When talking to Kate, he could see the illuminated patio to her left.  And he was well positioned at the slightest turn of his head to see 5A patio at any time.   Who knows how often, as a very obviously devoted father, he checked 5A visually?


Gerry sat at one of the best positions to keep an eye on 5A, I am thinking


Thanks to you, Gunit, another bit of the jigsaw almost certainly solved.  Well done.        Methinks we make a good team, keep em coming.

The difference in view due to height difference would be incredibly small over a distance of over 50 meters.

The person in the second photo is Russell O'Brien. 
You said "From these two photos, you can see just how much taller Gerry is than the petite Fiona sitting next to him"  Both are with people standing.

First is Kate and Gerry with Rachael behind Kate.

Second one is Rachael, Fiona with Russell.

So we don't have a photo here contrasting Fiona with Gerry.

[Sunny]

And of course in my opinion any difference in height of two people when sitting is completely different to when they are standing. For a start you need to take the length of a persons legs into account, or should I say you need to remove the length  of a persons legs. Generally peoples torsos aren't as variable in length as legs are.

When I am sitting at a concert I can generally see over the people ahead of me but if I am standing behind a tall person no chance.

This is all IMO and on my observation only.

[G-Unit]

And of course in my opinion any difference in height of two people when sitting is completely different to when they are standing. For a start you need to take the length of a persons legs into account, or should I say you need to remove the length  of a persons legs. Generally peoples torsos aren't as variable in length as legs are.

When I am sitting at a concert I can generally see over the people ahead of me but if I am standing behind a tall person no chance.

This is all IMO and on my observation only.

Yes. I'm 5 foot tall but sitting down evens things up. Not that anyone was looking or listening anyway in my opinion. They were on holiday, relaxing and dining, not 'on guard'.

[Brietta]

And of course in my opinion any difference in height of two people when sitting is completely different to when they are standing. For a start you need to take the length of a persons legs into account, or should I say you need to remove the length  of a persons legs. Generally peoples torsos aren't as variable in length as legs are.

When I am sitting at a concert I can generally see over the people ahead of me but if I am standing behind a tall person no chance.

This is all IMO and on my observation only.

How lucky you are at concerts!  I invariably get man or woman mountain sitting directly in front of me giving an exaggerated example of St Vitus's dance.

[Sunny]

How lucky you are at concerts!  I invariably get man or woman mountain sitting directly in front of me giving an exaggerated example of St Vitus's dance.

I did say "invariably" not always Brietta. 

[Robittybob1]

I did say "invariably" not always Brietta. 

from the dictionary:
"invariably

adverb
in every case or on every occasion; always."

Which is rather funny really as "invariably" means "always".   

[Sunny]

from the dictionary:
"invariably

adverb
in every case or on every occasion; always."

Which is rather funny really as "invariably" means "always".   

Oops thanks for the grammar lesson Robittybob1. I thought I knew what invariably meant. Clearly not though.  I meant nearly always of course. 

[sadie]

The difference in view due to height difference would be incredibly small over a distance of over 50 meters.

The person in the second photo is Russell O'Brien. 
You said "From these two photos, you can see just how much taller Gerry is than the petite Fiona sitting next to him"  Both are with people standing.

First is Kate and Gerry with Rachael behind Kate.

Second one is Rachael, Fiona with Russell.

So we don't have a photo here contrasting Fiona with Gerry.

Rob, my friend, I think that you are quite wrong about the distance behind Fiona making any diffrence to the view of 5A apart from it all looking bigger if a shorter distance and smaller if further away.  However the distance betwen Gerry and Fiona could have altered Gerrys view, but he was sufficiently taller than Fiona for it not to matter a jot.

And Rob, please do not forget that the patio balcony of 5A was quite considerably higher than the Tapas restaurant.  He could see it plainly.  No doubt at all about that.  FACT

[sadie]

The difference in view due to height difference would be incredibly small over a distance of over 50 meters.

The person in the second photo is Russell O'Brien. 
You said "From these two photos, you can see just how much taller Gerry is than the petite Fiona sitting next to him"  Both are with people standing.

First is Kate and Gerry with Rachael behind Kate.

Second one is Rachael, Fiona with Russell.

So we don't have a photo here contrasting Fiona with Gerry.

Rob, I am gobsmacked that you with your obviously superior brain cannot understand that if
1)  Rachael is shorter than Gerry (photo 1)
2)  and Fiona is slightly shorter than Rachael, (photo 2)
3)  Then Fiona is also shorter than Gerry (an even bigger height difference than between Rachael and Gerry

Gerry is almost a full head taller than Fiona.



Russell doesn't even enter into the equation.  Even if he was removed from photo 2 the same comparisons would prove what I am saying.

I take your point about both photos were of standing people and sitting people might alter the relative heights, but both Fiona and Gerry are very well proportioned and if anything Fiona has a slightly greater leg length to whole body ratio than Gerry.

There is no doubt at all that Gerry could see everything connected to 5A behind the lovely petite Fiona.

All in my honest opinion ... and I have trained eye for figure proportions and sizes.

[sadie]

And of course in my opinion any difference in height of two people when sitting is completely different to when they are standing. For a start you need to take the length of a persons legs into account, or should I say you need to remove the length  of a persons legs. Generally peoples torsos aren't as variable in length as legs are.

When I am sitting at a concert I can generally see over the people ahead of me but if I am standing behind a tall person no chance.

This is all IMO and on my observation only.

My previous post covers the first part of your comments here.

I would furthermore remind you that at concerts the seating is usually tiered.  Gerry and Fiona were not in a tiered arrangement, but both sitting on level ground


Gery could see clearly over Fionas head . 
That is a FACT worked out by observation and a little informal geometrty

[Robittybob1]

My previous post covers the first part of your comments here.

I would furthermore remind you that at concerts the seating is usually tiered.  Gerry and Fiona were not in a tiered arrangement, but both sitting on level ground


Gery could see clearly over Fionas head . 
That is a FACT worked out by observation and a little informal geometrty

I was not thinking about whether someone was in the way, but the ultimate view of 5A patio.  Did it matter if one was 5 foot and the other 6 foot?