Wandering Off Topic

[Brietta]

From RT.com

‘Police have been blasted over what some see as a misuse of resources.

“These figures bear out what we’ve been saying: that police are wasting more and more time investigating people for comments online that are offensive but not criminal,” Jodie Ginsberg, chief executive of Index on Censorship, told the Times.

Snip
Using Freedom of Information requests, the Times found that 3,395 people across 29 forces were arrested last year under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

The act allows officers to investigate messages and posts which are “grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character.”

In 2014 there were 2,315 arrests, compared with 2,755 in 2015.

This means there has been a rise of almost 50 percent between 2014 and 2016.

However, 15 forces did not submit data, meaning the real figure is likely to be higher.

Last year 1,696 people were charged and 1,399 convicted – despite almost 4,000 arrests.
https://www.rt.com/uk/406467-hate-crime-twitter-troll/

Of those charged with an offence a very high percentage were convicted ... I would imagine that might give a measure of relief to the victims of what is a crime.
Why not cut expenses entirely and dispense with policing crime entirely ... let the crims get on with it?

[slartibartfast]

Snip
Using Freedom of Information requests, the Times found that 3,395 people across 29 forces were arrested last year under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

The act allows officers to investigate messages and posts which are “grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character.”

In 2014 there were 2,315 arrests, compared with 2,755 in 2015.

This means there has been a rise of almost 50 percent between 2014 and 2016.

However, 15 forces did not submit data, meaning the real figure is likely to be higher.

Last year 1,696 people were charged and 1,399 convicted – despite almost 4,000 arrests.
https://www.rt.com/uk/406467-hate-crime-twitter-troll/

Of those charged with an offence a very high percentage were convicted ... I would imagine that might give a measure of relief to the victims of what is a crime.
Why not cut expenses entirely and dispense with policing crime entirely ... let the crims get on with it?

Not exactly being a bit mean on the Internet.

[Brietta]

Not exactly being a bit mean on the Internet.

All a matter of opinion what constitutes "being a bit mean on the internet.  In my opinion worthy of highlight is that "Last year 1,696 people were charged and 1,399 convicted" which I think is a pretty sizeable cache of lawbreaking.

Just as in America we have them here and they do immeasurable harm to themselves and others ... Police accuse two students, age 12, of cyberbullying in suicidehttps://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/23/us/florida-cyberstalking-charges-girl-suicide/index.html

[Alice Purjorick]

All very interesting. Ultimately it comes down to money.
I have no objection to all public sector bodies demanding and receiving more ackers if it is genuinely required to enable them to perform to the standard required.
But remember public sector bodies are funded by the government and district councils. Their only source of revenue being borrowing and taxation.
So have it all, but how much are you prepared to pay for it in increased taxation and police precepts?

[Mr Gray]

All very interesting. Ultimately it comes down to money.
I have no objection to all public sector bodies demanding and receiving more ackers if it is genuinely required to enable them to perform to the standard required.
But remember public sector bodies are funded by the government and district councils. Their only source of revenue being borrowing and taxation.
So have it all, but how much are you prepared to pay for it in increased taxation and police precepts?

I don't think it's, a simple as that... Perhaps the whole budget should be liked at to see where savings could be made elsewhere

It seems we spend more on overseas aid than we do on police

[Alice Purjorick]

1)I don't think it's, a simple as that... 2)Perhaps the whole budget should be liked at to see where savings could be made elsewhere

It seems we spend more on overseas aid than we do on police

I never said it was simple. It's a matter of cutting your cloth etc
I can think of a few good places to start.
NHS: If you can afford to pay for your treatment you should, on a sliding scale.
Child Care; Any household with a joint income > £40k should receive no child care allowance. Stop sponging off me.
Any one in the top ten percent of earners should not receive a winter fuel allowance, which starts at age 60.
PIP and what was DLA should be revisited and "grandfather rights" reassessed for present applicability.

[barrier]

I never said it was simple. It's a matter of cutting your cloth etc
I can think of a few good places to start.
NHS: If you can afford to pay for your treatment you should, on a sliding scale.
Child Care; Any household with a joint income > £40k should receive no child care allowance. Stop sponging off me.
Any one in the top ten percent of earners should not receive a winter fuel allowance, which starts at age 60.
PIP and what was DLA should be revisited and "grandfather rights" reassessed for present applicability.

You need to be born before November 5 1953 or reach pensionable age before being allowed to claim.

A bit more info on that.

"You must be old enough to qualify for a state pension during the ‘qualifying week’ in the autumn before you get the payment. Because the pensionable age is changing on a sliding scale each year, the winter fuel payment eligibility age also changes annually.
Here are a few examples:
A woman born on 1 January 1953 will reach state pension age at 62 years, 8 months and 5 days (i.e. on 6 September 2015)
A man born on 1 January 1954 will reach state pension age at 65 years, 2 months and 5 days (i.e. on 6 March 2019)
From 2020 onwards, everyone will get it from the age of 66"

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/the-winter-fuel-payment-helping-pensioners-keep-warm.html

[jassi]

I never said it was simple. It's a matter of cutting your cloth etc
I can think of a few good places to start.
NHS: If you can afford to pay for your treatment you should, on a sliding scale.
Child Care; Any household with a joint income > £40k should receive no child care allowance. Stop sponging off me.
Any one in the top ten percent of earners should not receive a winter fuel allowance, which starts at age 60.
PIP and what was DLA should be revisited and "grandfather rights" reassessed for present applicability.

Who would decide ? - More paperwork

Gross earnings can be misleading - 40k will go further is some areas of the country than others,

[misty]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/02/met-police-opens-criminal-inquiry-into-labour-[ censored word]emitism-claims

Scotland Yard has opened a criminal investigation into allegations of [ censored word]emitic hate crimes linked to Labour party members, according to the commissioner of the Metropolitan police.

Cressida Dick said officers had reviewed a leaked party dossier detailing 45 cases of alleged [ censored word]emitism that was passed to her in September by the radio station LBC.

The UK’s most senior police officer told the BBC she believed there could be a case to answer and, as a result, the force was consulting with prosecutors on the next steps.

“We have been assessing some material that was passed to me, in a radio studio of all things, about two months ago and we are now investigating some of that material because it appears there may have been a crime committed,” Dick said.


“We are liaising immediately with the Crown Prosecution Service and I hope we will be able to clear that up very quickly.”
t

LBC received an internal Labour dossier detailing 45 cases involving messages posted by party members on social media, including one that read: “We shall rid the Jews who are a cancer on us all.”

The broadcaster passed the leaked material to the former senior police officer Mark Chishty to review, who said 17 instances should have been reported to the police for investigation, and another four were potential race hate crimes.

These four included the message detailed above; the sharing of a link to an allegedly [ censored word]emitic blog; and an entry referring to “a Zionist extremist MP … who hates civilised people, about to get a good kicking”.

Another related to a Labour councillor being accused of putting a child through “10 years of hell”, slurring him racially and calling him a Jew boy.

Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, said the announcement was “thoroughly depressing, although sadly I am not surprised. All I can say to you again, if people have committed hate crimes they need to be dealt with by the full force of the law.”

He added that he hoped the Met inquiry would “silence a very small number of people who believe that [ censored word]emitism doesn’t exist in my party, or in other parties”.

The dossier was handed to Dick on 4 September. A spokesman for the Met added: “The complainant alleged that the documentation included evidence of [ censored word]emitic hate crimes. The contents have been examined by specialist officers. A criminal investigation has commenced into some of the allegations within the documentation.

The Labour party said it had not been contacted by the police but was ready to cooperate with the investigation. The Labour party has a robust system for investigating complaints of alleged breaches of Labour party rules by its members,” a spokesman said. “Where someone feels they have been a victim of crime, they should report it to the police in the usual way.”

=================================================================

Another dossier. Alleged online hate crimes.
Is the expense of a criminal investigation justifiable?

[Alice Purjorick]

I am only speaking from personal experience and opinion.
At age 60 I received 200 quid heating allowance as a matter of course. I didn't need it nor did I want it. It offended my "benevolent socialism" ideals. I phoned to try to hand it back only to be told "you have to have it but you can give it to any charity or little old gadget of your choosing". As the Inland Revenue/HMRC have a record of what everyone earns it can't be too difficult to control it*.

I was a single parent. I had to earn most of what I lobbed out in child care. In those days it was about 5% of my gross, child allowance was less than 2% leaving me to stump up 3% of the costs from my taxed income.

The best one of the lot is PIP. If you did not have it as DLA before PIP(finishes at age 65) then forget it. Because, and I was told this by the DWP, "you are old and do not have to go out much, PIP is to help people back to work". In fact putting it crudely, under the new system , provided you can go for a crap by yourself in the middle of the night you are entitled to naff all. However under "grandfather rights" there are more than enough folk receiving mobility allowances, exemption from car tax etc whilst still walking up to 1km per day from choice.
You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows on that one [PIP].

* caveat. Successive British governments and their departments have shown themselves to be incompetent with IT systems. Funny how multinational corporations can control off one server in their head office in whatever country.

It ever was thus and no doubt will not change. To him that hath shall be given 

[Eleanor]

I am only speaking from personal experience and opinion.
At age 60 I received 200 quid heating allowance as a matter of course. I didn't need it nor did I want it. It offended my "benevolent socialism" ideals. I phoned to try to hand it back only to be told "you have to have it but you can give it to any charity or little old gadget of your choosing". As the Inland Revenue/HMRC have a record of what everyone earns it can't be too difficult to control it*.

I was a single parent. I had to earn most of what I lobbed out in child care. In those days it was about 5% of my gross, child allowance was less than 2% leaving me to stump up 3% of the costs from my taxed income.

The best one of the lot is PIP. If you did not have it as DLA before PIP(finishes at age 65) then forget it. Because, and I was told this by the DWP, "you are old and do not have to go out much, PIP is to help people back to work". In fact putting it crudely, under the new system , provided you can go for a crap by yourself in the middle of the night you are entitled to naff all. However under "grandfather rights" there are more than enough folk receiving mobility allowances, exemption from car tax etc whilst still walking up to 1km per day from choice.
You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows on that one [PIP].

* caveat. Successive British governments and their departments have shown themselves to be incompetent with IT systems. Funny how multinational corporations can control off one server in their head office in whatever country.

It ever was thus and no doubt will not change. To him that hath shall be given 

True.

They took away my Winter Fuel Allowance just when I needed it most.

[barrier]

Mark Williams Thomas who amongst others has had is say on the McCann case is outed as a self promoting tv detective.

How a self-promoting TV detective, obsessed with celebrity sex abusers, helped police ruin the lives of Sir Cliff and a string of other famous faces... who all turned out to be TOTALLY INNOCENT

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6350331/Self-promoting-TV-detective-obsessed-celebrity-sex-abusers-helped-police-ruin-lives.html

[Venturi Swirl]

Mark Williams Thomas who amongst others has had is say on the McCann case is outed as a self promoting tv detective.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6350331/Self-promoting-TV-detective-obsessed-celebrity-sex-abusers-helped-police-ruin-lives.html

Perhaps he was wrong about the extent of  Savile's crimes too...? 

This report will be scoffed at by all those who believe fervently that there is a paedo ring among the  "high ups" and who strive in vain to link this to the McCanns, some of these conspiracy theorists regularly occupy (or used to, I haven't looked for years) the #McCann twitter feed.

[Eleanor]

Perhaps he was wrong about the extent of  Savile's crimes too...? 

This report will be scoffed at by all those who believe fervently that there is a paedo ring among the  "high ups" and who strive in vain to link this to the McCanns, some of these conspiracy theorists regularly occupy (or used to, I haven't looked for years) the #McCann twitter feed.

I think he was wrong about Jimmy Savile.  Among other things.

[Nicholas]

I think he was wrong about Jimmy Savile.  Among other things.

I've posted a plethora of info regarding MWT on this forum - search his name

The truth always out