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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Montclair on March 23, 2015, 05:18:55 PM

Title: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on March 23, 2015, 05:18:55 PM
The McCanns courted the press from day 1 and they have to take the good with the bad. The Portuguese press reported truthfully what the police were thinking. As for the British press, the parents were treated with kid gloves and presented as the perfect family and perfect parents. They have nothing to complain about. What the McCanns feared was that the truth about the investigation would be made public and they have tried everything possible to silence any criticism. They might have been successful if the police files had not been made public, which was a huge shock for them. They didn't realise that the files were to be made available to the press and public in general, in accordance with the Portuguese legislation. It was the truth they feared and still fear.

Furthermore, Gonçalo Amaral was a target from the beginning of the investigation and along with the PJ and GNR was treated with contempt by the British press. This happened long before he even thought that he would be taken off the case or even write a book about it.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 23, 2015, 05:21:17 PM
The McCanns courted the press from day 1 and they have to take the good with the bad. The Portuguese press reported truthfully what the police were thinking. As for the British press, the parents were treated with kid gloves and presented as the perfect family and perfect parents. They have nothing to complain about. What the McCanns feared was that the truth about the investigation would be made public and they have tried everything possible to silence any criticism. They might have been successful if the police files had not been made public, which was a huge shock for them. They didn't realise that the files were to be made available to the press and public in general, in accordance with the Portuguese legislation. It was the truth they feared and still fear.

Furthermore, Gonçalo Amaral was a target from the beginning of the investigation and along with the PJ and GNR was treated with contempt by the British press. This happened long before he even thought that he would be taken off the case or even write a book about it.

Well said Monclair!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 23, 2015, 05:23:42 PM
The McCanns courted the press from day 1 and they have to take the good with the bad. The Portuguese press reported truthfully what the police were thinking. As for the British press, the parents were treated with kid gloves and presented as the perfect family and perfect parents. They have nothing to complain about. What the McCanns feared was that the truth about the investigation would be made public and they have tried everything possible to silence any criticism. They might have been successful if the police files had not been made public, which was a huge shock for them. They didn't realise that the files were to be made available to the press and public in general, in accordance with the Portuguese legislation. It was the truth they feared and still fear.

Furthermore, Gonçalo Amaral was a target from the beginning of the investigation and along with the PJ and GNR was treated with contempt by the British press. This happened long before he even thought that he would be taken off the case or even write a book about it.
a) how did the PT press know what the police were thinking?  Clairvoyant?
b) If the UK press treated the McCanns with kid gloves and as perfect parents then why did the McCanns have to sue them and what was Leveson all about?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: misty on March 23, 2015, 05:25:06 PM
The McCanns courted the press from day 1 and they have to take the good with the bad. The Portuguese press reported truthfully what the police were thinking. As for the British press, the parents were treated with kid gloves and presented as the perfect family and perfect parents. They have nothing to complain about. What the McCanns feared was that the truth about the investigation would be made public and they have tried everything possible to silence any criticism. They might have been successful if the police files had not been made public, which was a huge shock for them. They didn't realise that the files were to be made available to the press and public in general, in accordance with the Portuguese legislation. It was the truth they feared and still fear.

Furthermore, Gonçalo Amaral was a target from the beginning of the investigation and along with the PJ and GNR was treated with contempt by the British press. This happened long before he even thought that he would be taken off the case or even write a book about it.

What part of Portuguese Judicial secrecy do you not understand?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on March 23, 2015, 05:32:38 PM
a) how did the PT press know what the police were thinking?  Clairvoyant?
b) If the UK press treated the McCanns with kid gloves and as perfect parents then why did the McCanns have to sue them and what was Leveson all about?

The McCanns went after the British newspapers when they printed the truth about the investigation and they did an out of court settlement with them, which doesn't mean that what they printed wasn't true. It was confirmed when the police files were made public.

Leveson was about hacking and not about the McCanns. They were not hacked, but managed to jump on the bandwagon, because they wanted to use Leveson as a way to stop the newspapers or bloggers from writing anything they didn't like.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 23, 2015, 05:36:34 PM
The McCanns courted the press from day 1 and they have to take the good with the bad. The Portuguese press reported truthfully what the police were thinking. As for the British press, the parents were treated with kid gloves and presented as the perfect family and perfect parents. They have nothing to complain about. What the McCanns feared was that the truth about the investigation would be made public and they have tried everything possible to silence any criticism. They might have been successful if the police files had not been made public, which was a huge shock for them. They didn't realise that the files were to be made available to the press and public in general, in accordance with the Portuguese legislation. It was the truth they feared and still fear.

Furthermore, Gonçalo Amaral was a target from the beginning of the investigation and along with the PJ and GNR was treated with contempt by the British press. This happened long before he even thought that he would be taken off the case or even write a book about it.

Have you lost touch with planet Earth, Montclair?  Or have you (conveniently) forgotten the press coverage by the UK press - an absolute feeding frenzy - which led to various payouts, apologies and retractions.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 23, 2015, 05:38:48 PM
Have you lost touch with planet Earth, Montclair?  Or have you (conveniently) forgotten the press coverage by the UK press - an absolute feeding frenzy - which led to various payouts, apologies and retractions.
Thanks for saving me the bother of replying.  Montclair seems to have had a severe memory lapse.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 23, 2015, 05:41:50 PM
From the Leveson Report - perhaps Montclair can explain this?

Quote
3.12 The cases of the McCanns and Christopher Jefferies are especially egregious examples of defamatory and sensationalised reporting causing, in their different ways, personal anguish and distress.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on March 23, 2015, 05:43:18 PM
The McCanns courted the press from day 1 and they have to take the good with the bad. The Portuguese press reported truthfully what the police were thinking. As for the British press, the parents were treated with kid gloves and presented as the perfect family and perfect parents. They have nothing to complain about. What the McCanns feared was that the truth about the investigation would be made public and they have tried everything possible to silence any criticism. They might have been successful if the police files had not been made public, which was a huge shock for them. They didn't realise that the files were to be made available to the press and public in general, in accordance with the Portuguese legislation. It was the truth they feared and still fear.

Furthermore, Gonçalo Amaral was a target from the beginning of the investigation and along with the PJ and GNR was treated with contempt by the British press. This happened long before he even thought that he would be taken off the case or even write a book about it.

One or two small points ...
(a)  As for the British press, the parents were treated with kid gloves and presented as the perfect family and perfect parents.

That will be why the British press had to print front page apologies for the calumnies printed about them and pay an out of court settlement?

(b)  in accordance with the Portuguese legislation.

You will be able to provide a cite to the particular piece of Portuguese legislation which allows case files to be given to journalists and members of the public in general.


You are perfectly correct in your statement that Goncalo Amaral was a target ... but mainly of the Portuguese Judiciary and the PJ.
He was made an arguido on the fourth of May and at his subsequent trial was convicted and received a suspended sentence.
He was passed over for promotion ... according to an open letter from his wife, and he was effectively demoted but certainly removed from the investigation into a missing child.
Unfortunately too late for anyone to fix the pig's ear he had made of it.

A measure of the regard in which he was held by his colleagues is that his leaving was unmarked by them, again according to his wife's open letter.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 23, 2015, 05:45:19 PM
The McCanns went after the British newspapers when they printed the truth about the investigation and they did an out of court settlement with them, which doesn't mean that what they printed wasn't true. It was confirmed when the police files were made public.

Leveson was about hacking and not about the McCanns. They were not hacked, but managed to jump on the bandwagon, because they wanted to use Leveson as a way to stop the newspapers or bloggers from writing anything they didn't like.

Here's a headline from the British press in 2007 Montclair - do you maintain this is the truth?

“Maddie ‘sold’ by hard-up McCanns.”
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on March 23, 2015, 05:56:37 PM
The McCanns went after the British newspapers when they printed the truth about the investigation and they did an out of court settlement with them, which doesn't mean that what they printed wasn't true. It was confirmed when the police files were made public.

Leveson was about hacking and not about the McCanns. They were not hacked, but managed to jump on the bandwagon, because they wanted to use Leveson as a way to stop the newspapers or bloggers from writing anything they didn't like.

SYRINGE FOUND IN MADELEINE'S APARTMENT

McCANNS ARE LYING

McCANNS HIDING A BIG SECRET

DNA PUTS PARENTS IN FRAME

The out of court settlement was made because the lawyers told the press they didn't have a leg to stand on if they went to court ... if they had the McCanns would probably have been awarded far more than the settlement.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: John on April 12, 2015, 11:10:56 AM
Relaunched topic.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 13, 2015, 10:57:10 AM
Lest we forget the Jeffrey Archer debacle

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_famous_crime_cases/a_jeffrey_archer/crime_vaults/

JEFFREY ARCHER: SHEPHERDS PIE AND MAYFAIR TARTS by Peter Stubley

Jeffrey Archer arrogantly believed he was untouchable as scandal after scandal failed to destroy his golden reputation.

But after a lifetime of lies, Archer's obsession with sex finally allowed his former secretary Angela Peppiatt and old friend Ted Francis to ruin him.

Archer, a former policeman, corrupted and twisted the 1987 libel action in his favour after he was exposed as a sexual deviant.

Alibis and diaries were concocted and faked to preserve his reputation and overriding ambition.

The confidante of Margaret Thatcher and John Major mixed fantasy and reality as he had done all his life to fool judge and jury at the High Court and walk away with £500,000 damages.

It was the performance of the complete conman - a trade inherited from his father William, a bigamist, swindler and compulsive liar who appeared at the dock of the Old Bailey 87 years before his son.

William Archer (born 1875) was accused of various frauds but fled to France in 1914, leaving the friend who put up his bail to serve a jail term.

He returned after the war but escaped trial when one witness died and another vanished without trace in Europe.

William Archer was in his sixties when he married Archer's mother Lola, who was to die during her son's trial.

THE FIRST JEFFREY ARCHER

The couple's first son was also christened Jeffrey but he was later given up for adoption and renamed David Brown.

The existence of 'the first Jeffrey Archer' had an indelible effect on the politician's boyhood, effectively making him a fraud from the day he was born.

After gaining just three 'O' levels at school near his home in Weston-super-Mare, Archer began lying in earnest, claiming degrees from the University of California and a bogus military career for his father.

He started a career as a PE teacher and managed to get into Oxford University to begin a diploma in education and a political career which would make him a household name.

It was at Oxford that he was to meet his beautiful and long-suffering wife Mary, who would help boost her husband's career and ignore countless affairs.

She would also become embroiled in one of the financial scandals which would feature throughout the life of the disgraced peer.

Even as a student Jeffrey Archer was plagued with rumours of financial wrongdoing - fellow undergraduates were amazed that he owned houses and cars with personalised number plates while working part time as an Oxfam fund raiser.

As an MP in 1973, he settled out of court after he was accused of fiddling his expenses for United Nations charity work. Archer had to pay all costs and the allegations against him were never retracted.

PEER'S INSATIABLE SEX DRIVE

In the 1970s Archer's insatiable sex drive led him to begin the first of his 'public' affairs with society girl Andrina Colquhoun.

The affair had been preceded by a string of casual flings with women he entertained at his fabulous Thames riverside apartment, Alembic House.

After plying them with champagne and showing off his impressive art collection, Archer seduced his conquests on his exclusive white leather furniture.

Mistress Andrina was cheated on herself but was still supportive of her former lover when he dumped her in 1985 after the then PM

Margaret Thatcher warned Archer to tidy up his personal life.

Other lovers included he bubbly blonde actress Sally Farmiloe, who dubbed Archer 'Wonder Boy' because of his sexual endurance.

Despite his high profile Jeffrey Archer could not resist the risk and the danger of squalid sex with prostitutes and was self-deluded enough to believe he could lie or browbeat his way out of any challenge to his integrity.

After his liaison call girl Monica Coghlan in 1987 he begged the editor of the News of the World not to publish the story - and then took the paper to court with the Daily Star.

Archer set about persuading friends to help him prepare a cast-iron and completely dishonest case against the newspapers to win the libel case.

The film rights to his future books were given to friend Terence Baker in exchange for an alibi covering the sex session with Coghlan at the Albion Hotel.

CALL GIRL PAID TO VANISH

Friend and PR man Michael Stacpoole was later hired to pay Coghlan £2,000, to vanish - and she arrived at Victoria Station to collect the cash as undercover newsmen looked on.

Archer's secretary Angie Peppiatt was ordered to fake two diaries to back up his story that he was with Baker on the night he was with Coghlan.

TV producer Ted Francis was also been roped in to provide an alibi for Archer - and was inadvertently given the wrong day to lie about.

But after he had won the case, Archer made the fatal mistake of upsetting those entrusted with his guilty secrets.

After Francis provided the alibi, Archer gave him £12,000 to produce an Enid Blyton series on television.

He then deliberately embarrassed Francis by mentioning the debt in front of guests at one of his famous Krug and shepherd's pie parties.

It was the chance remark that destroyed Jeffery Archer.

The lies Archer hoped were buried for ever surfaced again when vengeful Francis went to the News of the World with his story.

For £14,000, he destroyed Archer's candidature as Mayor, his reputation and his career.

A WOMAN SCORNED

Peppiatt had been sacked by Archer after she caught him fiddling her expenses and in the true tradition of 'a woman scorned' she walked out of his office with armfuls of incriminating documents.

She would have no hesitation in twisting the knife in Archer's back in court, telling shocked jurors how she knew of at least seven of Archer's lovers apart from his mistress.

Archer remained silent in court, hoping his wife could help get him off the hook as she had done in 1987, when her performance in the witness box left a High Court judge fawning over her like an infatuated schoolboy.

But her haughty arrogance and black stockings failed to impress Old Bailey judge Mr Justice Potts, who repeatedly warned her not to give evidence for her husband.

Jeffrey Archer was left staring at his feet as his wife's role sacrificial lamb failed to save him.

He showed no emotion as he was found guilty of four of the five charges he faced.

Lady Archer closed her eyes while the guilty verdicts were announced.

Mr Justice Potts told Archer he was guilty of the most serious case of perjury he had seen as he jailed him for a total of four years.

'DISHONESTLY TO MANIPULATE'

'The fact is that in January 1987 you set out dishonestly to manipulate a proceedings which you had chosen to institute against the Star newspaper,' he told Archer.

'You did so I am satisfied certainly from 8th January when you required Mrs Peppiatt to obtain a blank Economist diary for 1986.

'And you went on choosing your man with care to incite Ted Francis to write those letters to your solicitor setting out the false alibi knowing that he was in need of money for his TV project.

'Sentencing you Lord Archer gives me no pleasure at all, I can assure you. Very little in this case could be said to give any sensible person pleasure.

'It has been a extremely distasteful case.’

Jeffrey Archer has always bounced back - from fiddling expenses, near bankruptcy, claims of shoplifting in Toronto,and the allegations of insider dealing over the £80,000 profit made on Anglia TV shares when his wife was a company director.

Since his conviction he has written a bleating prison diary and has completed new novels.

Those who worked to expose him have not shared Archer’s good fortune - Terence Baker died of a heart attack in 1991, Coghlan was killed in a car smash and Michael Stacpoole was partially paralysed after a stroke.


I wonder how much Gerry trusts his friends ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 13, 2015, 11:08:08 AM
SYRINGE FOUND IN MADELEINE'S APARTMENT

McCANNS ARE LYING

McCANNS HIDING A BIG SECRET

DNA PUTS PARENTS IN FRAME

Are shocking disraceful headlines- thank goodness I do not buy such newspapers.
Trial by media should be made illegal in this country- how many cases have been jepordised by such utterings.

McCanns are quite right to challenge these type of stories.

Having said that The McCanns courted the media not to 'find Maddie' but to promote themselves as people they  did not appear to be. They did enjoy the 'celebrity' and did become quite confident in their new found status- mixing with heads of state. pope, Oprah, evan tried to involve Royal family in their media mania. ( an annoymouse person send a message to the royal website)  YES, this was a global phenomenon created  and enjoyed by the McCanns,

Maddie has never been found!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 13, 2015, 11:27:57 AM
SYRINGE FOUND IN MADELEINE'S APARTMENT

McCANNS ARE LYING

McCANNS HIDING A BIG SECRET

DNA PUTS PARENTS IN FRAME

Are shocking disraceful headlines- thank goodness I do not buy such newspapers.
Trial by media should be made illegal in this country- how many cases have been jepordised by such utterings.

McCanns are quite right to challenge these type of stories.

Having said that The McCanns courted the media not to 'find Maddie' but to promote themselves as people they  did not appear to be. They did enjoy the 'celebrity' and did become quite confident in their new found status- mixing with heads of state. pope, Oprah, evan tried to involve Royal family in their media mania. ( an annoymouse person send a message to the royal website)  YES, this was a global phenomenon created  and enjoyed by the McCanns,

Maddie has never been found!

Everything the McCanns have done has been with the aim of keeping Madeleine's profile as high as possible for as long as possible in the public eye.   As Madeleine's parents how could they do that - and at the same time stay out of the public eye themselves?   That makes no sense.   They couldn't do one without the other.

I've never seen any evidence of a 'celebrity' lifestyle or the slightest desire to have one.   What have I missed?

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 13, 2015, 04:41:36 PM
Everything the McCanns have done has been with the aim of keeping Madeleine's profile as high as possible for as long as possible in the public eye.   As Madeleine's parents how could they do that - and at the same time stay out of the public eye themselves?   That makes no sense.   They couldn't do one without the other.

I've never seen any evidence of a 'celebrity' lifestyle or the slightest desire to have one.   What have I missed?

The problem for me with 'Madeleine's profile' is that I wouldn't have known her if I'd fallen over her at the time. The photos released seemed so different. I could have picked her parents out of a police line-up with ease, but if you'd asked me to find Madeleine in a group of similar little girls I'd have been in trouble. Even the coloboma which received so much publicity has been dismissed since by her mother as 'just a fleck', so we can't rely on that.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 13, 2015, 05:20:24 PM
The problem for me with 'Madeleine's profile' is that I wouldn't have known her if I'd fallen over her at the time. The photos released seemed so different. I could have picked her parents out of a police line-up with ease, but if you'd asked me to find Madeleine in a group of similar little girls I'd have been in trouble. Even the coloboma which received so much publicity has been dismissed since by her mother as 'just a fleck', so we can't rely on that.

I personally would have used the bottom days before missing photo but they didn't have many to choose from.

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_30.jpg)(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dm2505074.jpg)
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Carana on April 13, 2015, 05:33:33 PM
If those who deal with the PJ website ever get time, perhaps they could update this:

http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/PortalWeb/page/%7BB22ED3A0-BAF1-471D-AFDA-AFF94B9BB24B%7D
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2015, 08:21:16 PM
I personally would have used the bottom days before missing photo but they didn't have many to choose from.

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_30.jpg)(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dm2505074.jpg)

It has already been explained on the forum by Carana, I think, that the Polícia Judiciária chose which picture would be used.

If you are going to criticise Madeleine McCann's parents at least use something they and not the PJ have worked on.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 13, 2015, 11:29:04 PM
It has already been explained on the forum by Carana, I think, that the Polícia Judiciária chose which picture would be used.

If you are going to criticise Madeleine McCann's parents at least use something they and not the PJ have worked on.

If that was the photographs they were given what were they supposed to do ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 12:00:08 AM
If that was the photographs they were given what were they supposed to do ?

What do you expect from a third world country only 40 years out of being a dictatorship?
I am not serious about that but some on here are!
I wonder what they thought of Germany in the late 1980s?
Mercy!


Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 14, 2015, 12:43:43 AM
What do you expect from a third world country only 40 years out of being a dictatorship?
I am not serious about that but some on here are!
I wonder what they thought of Germany in the late 1980s?
Mercy!

Rule of thumb amongst supporters......if it's foreign it's ( add your expletive here  )
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 14, 2015, 12:51:50 AM
What do you expect from a third world country only 40 years out of being a dictatorship?
I am not serious about that but some on here are!
I wonder what they thought of Germany in the late 1980s?
Mercy!

I lived in Germany for four years in the 1970's and found the people kind, hard-working and law abiding. I learned the language, although I could speak better than I could understand the answers. We socialised with local people, used local facilities like their lovely open air swimming pools, and enjoyed their beautiful shops. Other UK people there at the time didn't like the country or the people, mostly for reasons related to the past and WW2, but a lot of the people we got to know weren't born then.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 14, 2015, 12:58:04 AM
Please try and stay with the topic of the thread.
Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage -  Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 08:08:49 AM
What do you expect from a third world country only 40 years out of being a dictatorship?
I am not serious about that but some on here are!
I wonder what they thought of Germany in the late 1980s?
Mercy!
I was very happy for Germany in the late 1980s on account of the fall of the Berlin Wall, how about you?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 08:55:30 AM
I was very happy for Germany in the late 1980s on account of the fall of the Berlin Wall, how about you?
How about me what?
I am positively ecstatic that every one was happy with Germany 40 years out of its dictatorship. I wonder why some find the 40 year period so significant  in Portugal?

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 09:17:22 AM
How about me what?
I am positively ecstatic that every one was happy with Germany 40 years out of its dictatorship. I wonder why some find the 40 year period so significant  in Portugal?
I would say it's all about how quickly and efficiently a country can shake off the ways of old regimes and adapt to a different, more democratic and just way of treating people. Some countries adapt to these changes more efficiently than others.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 14, 2015, 09:21:09 AM
The problem for me with 'Madeleine's profile' is that I wouldn't have known her if I'd fallen over her at the time. The photos released seemed so different. I could have picked her parents out of a police line-up with ease, but if you'd asked me to find Madeleine in a group of similar little girls I'd have been in trouble. Even the coloboma which received so much publicity has been dismissed since by her mother as 'just a fleck', so we can't rely on that.

IMO the first photograph was chosen because it showed every detail of her face, hair, eyes etc.  That seems very sensible to me.      People do look different on different photographs - I can't see why that would be a problem.  Surely the more piccies of her out there - the better.   Regardless of what the little imperfection in her eye was called - it was an added means of identification - and IIRC was first mentioned by the PJ in a public 'appeal' on 5th May.   (from memory).

However we have moved on since then and I do wish the media would show the updated age-related 'piccie' of Madeleine.  I can only presume the 'iconic' piccie is considered more advantageous to them -  from the point of view of newspaper sales.

Slightly off topic - but I agree the parents were instantly recognisable from the start -and  imo that's because we were seeing them 'in the flesh' and not just in photographs.    And is also why I don't believe they would be so stupid as to contemplate moving a body and transporting it in a car -  not only in the full glare of the world's media, but having probably the most recognisable faces in Portugal at the time they were supposed to have done that deed.   

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2015, 09:40:28 AM

The press coverage received by the already traumatised family and their friends was nothing short of diabolical and they got off very lightly for it as demonstrated by Professor Cathcart elsewhere in the New Statesman article.

Everything they wrote was based on falsehoods linked to leaks from the investigation which were printed in the Portuguese press and lazily taken up by journalists incapable of doing their jobs and printed by editors conscious only of competition and their sales.

That the disgraceful articles continue to exercise their malign influence even today can be witnessed by those who appear to believe them to this day and write about them still on forums such as and even this.


THE NEW STATESMAN

The Real McCann Scandal

Brian Cathcart details how the British press set out to systematically destroy the parents of Madeleine McCann

BY BRIAN CATHCART PUBLISHED 23 OCTOBER, 2008 - 10:17

You may have missed it: at the High Court in London on 15 October, Express Newspapers agreed to pay £375,000 in libel damages to the so-called "Tapas Seven", the friends of Kate and Gerry McCann who were with the couple in Portugal when Madeleine McCann disappeared.

This development did not receive much coverage. There were three sentences in the Sun on page 21, for example, and just a little more in the Daily Mirror on page 20. In the Daily Express itself you might easily have failed to spot the apology that was part of the settlement, as the two paragraphs in the top corner of page five were a little lost beside the bold headline blaring out across the rest of the spread: "Let the jobless lag lofts, says Brown". The Tapas Seven victory, it seems, was treated as a minor footnote to a burned-out story; few people were likely to be interested.

Well, they ought to be interested, because the McCann case was the greatest scandal in our news media in at least a decade - an outrage far worse than the Andrew Gilligan "sexed-up dossier" affair of 2003 - and those responsible are now slinking away almost unpunished. They are escaping, moreover, by the most shameful of means. The editors and proprietors of the papers responsible for the great balloon of speculative nonsense that was the McCann story had the power to kill off discussion of what went wrong in the press, and they used it. When their balloon burst, they simply began pretending it had never existed.

**snip

Error on this scale, involving hundreds of “completely untrue” news reports, published on front pages month after month in the teeth of desperate denials, can only be systemic

**snip

But look at what we now know about the stories published in this hysterical atmosphere, starting with ones about the Tapas Seven. In as many as 20 articles published over six months, the Sunday and Daily Express and the Daily Star suggested that this group covered up the truth about the girl's disappearance and misled the police who were invest igating the case. They also suggested that one member of the group was officially suspected of being in volved in abducting Madeleine.

As the official apology put it: "We now accept that these suggestions should never have been made and were completely untrue."

**snip

Error on this scale, involving hundreds of "completely untrue" news reports, published on front pages month after month in the teeth of desperate denials, can only be systemic. Judging by what appeared in print, it involved a reckless neglect of ethical standards, a persistent failure to apply even the most basic journalistic rigour, and plenty of plain cruelty.

http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-reform/2008/10/madeleine-mccann-daily-british


In keeping Madeleine McCann's name in the public eye the press coverage has been an essential tool ... but none can deny that her parents have paid the price for it as demonstrated by their vilification for nearly eight years which continues apace .
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2015, 09:51:18 AM
IMO the first photograph was chosen because it showed every detail of her face, hair, eyes etc.  That seems very sensible to me.      People do look different on different photographs - I can't see why that would be a problem.  Surely the more piccies of her out there - the better.   Regardless of what the little imperfection in her eye was called - it was an added means of identification - and IIRC was first mentioned by the PJ in a public 'appeal' on 5th May.   (from memory).

However we have moved on since then and I do wish the media would show the updated age-related 'piccie' of Madeleine.  I can only presume the 'iconic' piccie is considered more advantageous to them -  from the point of view of newspaper sales.

Slightly off topic - but I agree the parents were instantly recognisable from the start -and  imo that's because we were seeing them 'in the flesh' and not just in photographs.    And is also why I don't believe they would be so stupid as to contemplate moving a body and transporting it in a car -  not only in the full glare of the world's media, but having probably the most recognisable faces in Portugal at the time they were supposed to have done that deed.

I think using that photograph was probably one of the things the investigation got right for the reasons you have given, Benice, and the fact that it was a passport photograph makes it an official document rather than a holiday snap of a child who could have been any child.
We have evidence from the "last photo" controversy to support the sort of ludicrous allegations anyone could dream up, so if the worst criticism that can be made of this image is that they had few snaps to pick from or that it isn't pretty enough the PJ made the correct choice.

The parents did publish flyers with their own picture immediately after the event ... this engendered much comment and criticism ... seems whatever they do or whatever they don't do ... it will be subject to vilification.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 14, 2015, 10:05:47 AM
Rule of thumb amongst supporters......if it's foreign it's ( add your expletive here  )

Some serious 'wishful thinking' going on there IMO Faith.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 14, 2015, 10:12:51 AM
The only time the press coverage was "negative" towards the McCanns was just after they were made arguidos. The press then printed information from the investigation which did not please the parents, even though most of it was true. The outrage over these articles IMO is highly exaggerated and nowhere did anyone of these so-called experts criticise how the Portuguese police, country and people were portrayed in the MSM. Hypocritical attitude.

On the whole the press fawned over the McCanns, never criticising their parenting, for example. If any journalist ever expressed any doubts about the case, they were practically forced to do a mea culpa the next day in the press.

The McCanns, through their pit bulls, Carter Ruck, were very successful in putting the fear of god into the papers, who now only print what meets the approval of the parents.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 10:16:17 AM
I would say it's all about how quickly and efficiently a country can shake off the ways of old regimes and adapt to a different, more democratic and just way of treating people. Some countries adapt to these changes more efficiently than others.

You have evidence that Portugal has not "shaken it off" ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: John on April 14, 2015, 10:29:47 AM
It is most unfortunate but even today Madeleine is used as a cash cow, as a means to sell newspapers.  What was diabolical was headlines such as "Madeleine found in Greece", "Madeleine found in Ireland" etc etc...

There should be consequences for reporters and newspapers who promote this rubbish.

(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1421583/thumbs/o-MADDIE-GREECE-570.jpg?2)

(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1421582/thumbs/o-MADDIE-570.jpg?7)
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 14, 2015, 10:44:35 AM
The only time the press coverage was "negative" towards the McCanns was just after they were made arguidos. The press then printed information from the investigation which did not please the parents, even though most of it was true. The outrage over these articles IMO is highly exaggerated and nowhere did anyone of these so-called experts criticise how the Portuguese police, country and people were portrayed in the MSM. Hypocritical attitude.

On the whole the press fawned over the McCanns, never criticising their parenting, for example. If any journalist ever expressed any doubts about the case, they were practically forced to do a mea culpa the next day in the press.

The McCanns, through their pit bulls, Carter Ruck, were very successful in putting the fear of god into the papers, who now only print what meets the approval of the parents.

Then can you explain why - if ''the papers now only print what meets the approval of the parents,' -  The Times has recently had to pay compensation of £50,000 for printing lies about them?







Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Angelo222 on April 14, 2015, 12:14:43 PM
Then can you explain why - if ''the papers now only print what meets the approval of the parents,' -  The Times has recently had to pay compensation of £50,000 for printing lies about them?

I think Monclair means in general as against to always.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2015, 12:30:06 PM
Then can you explain why - if ''the papers now only print what meets the approval of the parents,' -  The Times has recently had to pay compensation of £50,000 for printing lies about them?

The outrageous lies printed in the press about Madeleine McCann's parents did not come about by accident.

The 'leaks' were part of an orchestrated campaign designed not to find a missing child, but to secure a conviction and close the case.

Why change a winning formula?; if it has already proved a success in previous cases what's wrong with using it to 'solve' crimes irrespective of whether or not it allows criminals to walk free to commit further crimes.

Make no mistake about it, the PJ used the media not so much as an investigative tool but as a means to destroy the names and reputations of those they had decided were guilty of the crime.

Easy to defame a resident couple of poor country people.

Not so easy to do the same to a professional couple, but a highly productive defamation campaign based on pejorative leaks to the press might well have succeeded had lessons not been learned in British officialdom from the Rachel Charles case when a British citizen ended up in prison as a result of being 'fitted up' by the PJ.

When one sees the type of charges laid against Cristovao, one of the main conduits of the defamatory leaks from 'a source close to the investigation' one shudders.  The nature of the reasons for his dismissal from the PJ were bad enough, but just what was this man capable of?

What I did find interesting was his allegation of 'racism' particularly as the allegation of 'racism' has been levelled yet again by posters to this forum.
Lessons have certainly been learned and ingrained.

Madeleine: The damning case against the police by Britain's top investigative reporter

By DAVID ROSE

Last updated at 01:33 21 April 2008


**snip
There was a further parallel with the McCann case - leaks, apparently from police sources, to the media. One of the most damaging, Rosado said, was the suggestion that human blood, probably Joana's, had been found in the Ciprianos' fridge.
It was only when Leonor and Joao went on trial for murder that it emerged that this had never been DNA-matched to Joana and might even have come from some meat.

**snip
Amaral faces charges of negligence and falso testimunho - perjury --under Article 360 of the Portuguese penal code, a crime punishable by up to three years in prison.

Cardoso is accused of fabricating a document.

Marques, Bom and Cristovao are charged with torture, for which the maximum penalty is five years.

In Britain, it seems unlikely that officers facing charges of this kind would still be on duty, but last week Amaral was at work in the PJ office in Faro.
Through his lawyer, Antonio Cabrita, he refused to discuss either the Joana or Madeleine cases.

As for Cristovao, he left the PJ after the Joana case to become a writer.
Last year, as a columnist for Diario de Noticias, he became a prolific commentator on the Madeleine inquiry, writing a series of articles apparently derived in part from conversations with his former colleagues.

Last month, with the publication of his book The Star Of Madeleine, currently the Algarve's No3 bestseller, he has mounted a robust defence of the PJ in general and Amaral in particular.

**snip
The book, much of it composed of a fictional dialogue between two fictional PJ officers, Francisco and Joao, recycles some of the cruellest smears against the McCanns, such as the claim that Gerry did not get sufficiently involved in the children's routines.

Such information, it claims, gave the police "an idea how the family functioned".

It also contains details that can have come only from inside the investigation: as a view of PJ thinking, it may well be as authentic an account as has yet been given.

If so, its conclusions are shocking, among them the view that Madeleine is dead and that if her parents did not kill her physically, they did so by their public campaign to find her.

"The publicity given to her face was her death warrant - that's if she really left that apartment still alive," he writes.
Cristovao refused to meet me, saying that too many British journalists were "racist".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-560696/Madeleine-The-damning-case-police-Britains-investigative-reporter.html#ixzz3QpTyTc47
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 12:35:46 PM
You have evidence that Portugal has not "shaken it off" ?
Well apparently there has never been a miscarriage of justice in Portugal - ever.  That rings a teensy alarm bell for me!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: John on April 14, 2015, 12:44:03 PM
Well apparently there has never been a miscarriage of justice in Portugal - ever.  That rings a teensy alarm bell for me!

As rare as hens teeth!  8)-)))

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5005.0;nowap
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 12:56:08 PM
Well apparently there has never been a miscarriage of justice in Portugal - ever.  That rings a teensy alarm bell for me!

I said do you have evidence they have not advanced significantly in 40 years?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 01:13:53 PM
I said do you have evidence they have not advanced significantly in 40 years?
Where have I stated that they have not "advanced significantly" in 40 years?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2015, 01:44:48 PM
I said do you have evidence they have not advanced significantly in 40 years?

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

There seems to be huge concerted effort going on in Portugal at the moment to root out corruption at all levels in the public services.
No-one appears to be 'untouchable' at the moment.

One welcome development appears to be the total lack of unauthorised leaks from within the McCann investigation.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 01:45:16 PM
Where have I stated that they have not "advanced significantly" in 40 years?

I take it from that comment you have never made such an assertion so you are content that 40 years on after the dictatorship ended it is of no relevance, except perhaps in a historical sense, in modern Portuguese society that Portugal was once a dictatorship. Much in the same that Germany's society changed in the similar time span from 1946 to 1986. So when posters hark back to Portugal being only 40 years out of a dictatorship it is probably an irrelevant statement.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 01:49:19 PM
There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

There seems to be huge concerted effort going on in Portugal at the moment to root out corruption at all levels in the public services.
No-one appears to be 'untouchable' at the moment.

One welcome development appears to be the total lack of unauthorised leaks from within the McCann investigation.

Rooting out corruption like in the UK you mean?
I think Portuguese governance, society and the world at large extends a little beyond the McCann case.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2015, 01:56:19 PM
I take it from that comment you have never made such an assertion so you are content that 40 years on after the dictatorship ended it is of no relevance, except perhaps in a historical sense, in modern Portuguese society that Portugal was once a dictatorship. Much in the same that Germany's society changed in the similar time span from 1946 to 1986. So when posters hark back to Portugal being only 40 years out of a dictatorship it is probably an irrelevant statement.

I don't think it is an irrelevant statement.

Bearing in mind that the revolution was a bloodless one not a great upheaval which overturned the structures of the regime.

The old instruments of governance did not vanish overnight ... but the evolution of the revolution continues.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 02:08:42 PM
I don't think it is an irrelevant statement.

Bearing in mind that the revolution was a bloodless one not a great upheaval which overturned the structures of the regime.

The old instruments of governance did not vanish overnight ... but the evolution of the revolution continues.

Well you would say that wouldn't you. If I said the Euler-Bernoulli theory was relevant to beams you would say it isn't.
40 years is hardly overnight unless one is Rip van Winkle of course, even then it would be two nights for him.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 02:13:44 PM
I take it from that comment you have never made such an assertion so you are content that 40 years on after the dictatorship ended it is of no relevance, except perhaps in a historical sense, in modern Portuguese society that Portugal was once a dictatorship. Much in the same that Germany's society changed in the similar time span from 1946 to 1986. So when posters hark back to Portugal being only 40 years out of a dictatorship it is probably an irrelevant statement.
I refer you back to my earlier comment on this thread.  Do you think all countries progress at precisely the same rate or something?  Portugal may have made significant democratic progress but may still have a way to go to have achieved the level of progress made by Germany in a similar timeframe.  And no, don't bother to ask for evidence, it's simply my opinion and in the words of the late great Sweepyface, I'm entitled to it. 8)--))
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 03:39:09 PM
I refer you back to my earlier comment on this thread.  Do you think all countries progress at precisely the same rate or something?  Portugal may have made significant democratic progress but may still have a way to go to have achieved the level of progress made by Germany in a similar timeframe.  And no, don't bother to ask for evidence, it's simply my opinion and in the words of the late great Sweepyface, I'm entitled to it. 8)--))

My opinion is that the rate of change would be variable, however I find it improbable that a country which threw off the mantle of dictatorship in favour of democracy would retain many if any vestiges of totalitarianism more than a generation later.
But then of course the secret policeman is always the secret policeman so whilst I find it improbable I would not believe it impossible for some of the young rotten apples from the old regime to be in the judicial barrel of the new. But 30 to 40 years on the old guard would be long gone.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 14, 2015, 03:45:05 PM
My opinion is that the rate of change would be variable, however I find it improbable that a country which threw off the mantle of dictatorship in favour of democracy would retain many if any vestiges of totalitarianism more than a generation later.
But then of course the secret policeman is always the secret policeman so whilst I find it improbable I would not believe it impossible for some of the young rotten apples from the old regime to be in the judicial barrel of the new. But 30 to 40 years on the old guard would be long gone.

Not quite long gone.  Amaral was a product of The Fascist State.  And this particular Fascist State wasn't annihilated.  They just reinvented themselves.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 04:30:44 PM
Press this button here and that motor over there will fire up!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 04:34:07 PM
Not quite long gone.  Amaral was a product of The Fascist State.  And this particular Fascist State wasn't annihilated.  They just reinvented themselves.

Dr Amaral was 16 at the time of the revolution.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 04:40:15 PM
My opinion is that the rate of change would be variable, however I find it improbable that a country which threw off the mantle of dictatorship in favour of democracy would retain many if any vestiges of totalitarianism more than a generation later.
But then of course the secret policeman is always the secret policeman so whilst I find it improbable I would not believe it impossible for some of the young rotten apples from the old regime to be in the judicial barrel of the new. But 30 to 40 years on the old guard would be long gone.
Have you been to Russia?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: DCI on April 14, 2015, 04:51:05 PM
Dr Amaral was 16 at the time of the revolution.

Do you mean, The 1974 carnation revolution?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 04:51:20 PM
Have you been to Russia?

Yes and?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 05:01:30 PM
Yes and?
Recently?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 05:03:24 PM
Recently?

1981 & 2000.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 05:09:26 PM
Do you mean, The 1974 carnation revolution?

Well I don't mean the 1910 revolution so I figure I must mean The Carnation Revolution unless there was another one in the 1970s while I wasn't paying attention. That is always plausible in this manor.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: DCI on April 14, 2015, 05:16:20 PM
Well I don't mean the 1910 revolution so I figure I must mean The Carnation Revolution unless there was another one in the 1970s while I wasn't paying attention. That is always plausible in this manor.

No need for sarcasm. By the way he was 15.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 05:38:37 PM
1981 & 2000.
Not recently then, so you wouldn't know how much progress they've made in a generation between a totalitarian state and a democratic one then?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 06:30:04 PM
No need for sarcasm. By the way he was 15.

So a callow youth when democracy was introduced?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 06:37:31 PM
Not recently then, so you wouldn't know how much progress they've made in a generation between a totalitarian state and a democratic one then?

I wouldn't know anyway. I went over there and other places in the world to do what I do not make comparisons in cultural or political situations. It is best not to if you want to come home.
Your first question was had I been to Russia the answer is yes. Then you decided to ask a different question.
Ask me one about the Czech Republic, Jordan or RSA.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 14, 2015, 06:46:02 PM
I wouldn't know anyway. I went over there and other places in the world to do what I do not make comparisons in cultural or political situations. It is best not to if you want to come home.
Your first question was had I been to Russia the answer is yes. Then you decided to ask a different question.
Ask me one about the Czech Republic, Jordan or RSA.
I asked the question because of your earlier statement  "I find it improbable that a country which threw off the mantle of dictatorship in favour of democracy would retain many if any vestiges of totalitarianism more than a generation later".  Now, as I haven't been to Russia I thought you, as a seasoned traveller and all round know-it-all would be able to tell us if your statement held true for Russia, which I had been led to believe (probably by the evil capitalist MSM) to have not yet quite thrown off its vestiges of totalitarianism.   Still, you don't seem to know, so never mind, I'm sure your statement is correct for almost all erstwhile totalitarian states ...  8(>((
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 06:51:56 PM
I asked the question because of your earlier statement  "I find it improbable that a country which threw off the mantle of dictatorship in favour of democracy would retain many if any vestiges of totalitarianism more than a generation later". Now, as I haven't been to Russia I thought you, as a seasoned traveller and all round know-it-all would be able to tell us if your statement held true for Russia, which I had been led to believe (probably by the evil capitalist MSM) to have not yet quite thrown off its vestiges of totalitarianism.   Still, you don't seem to know, so never mind, I'm sure your statement is correct for almost all erstwhile totalitarian states ...  8(>((

I am glad you appreciate the position.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: DCI on April 14, 2015, 09:14:55 PM
So a callow youth when democracy was introduced?

Democracy much to some peoples annoyance. Like Amaral and Flores.

MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realised anything, she'd be in jail.

GA – Right, but in your time, in our old times, investigation was made with fuel. Now we all move on honey. Apart from that, this is a process that is uncomfortable for everyone. Nicely archived, nice and quiet, that's how it looks better. Everyone was happy.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 14, 2015, 09:50:11 PM
Democracy much to some peoples annoyance. Like Amaral and Flores.

MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realised anything, she'd be in jail.

GA – Right, but in your time, in our old times, investigation was made with fuel. Now we all move on honey. Apart from that, this is a process that is uncomfortable for everyone. Nicely archived, nice and quiet, that's how it looks better. Everyone was happy.

They could be talking about policing in the 80s in the UK.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2015, 10:56:51 PM

The lies made up and released to the Portuguese press by a 'source close to the investigation' were so effective that there are those who believe them even today.

The constant barrage of leaks was not designed to discover Madeleine McCann's fate, but to put her parents through a 'trial by media' and manipulate public opinion against them in a way which remains one of the most disgraceful tactics of the case.

If as much effort had been put into looking for Madeleine by those tasked with the duty, they might actually have found her.


LIES, BEATINGS, SECRET TRIALS: THE DARK SIDE OF POLICE HANDLING MADELEINE CASE.

By DAVID ROSE
Last updated at 18:57 16 September 2007


**snip

Other aspects of the emerging mindset against the McCanns seemed equally questionable.

Several Portuguese lawyers and journalists, along with a uniformed police officer from the National Republican Guard I spoke to outside the Ocean Club apartment, told me solemnly not only that the McCanns and their friends were “swingers” who had taken their holiday together to indulge in group sex (an assertion made repeatedly by the Portuguese Press), but that “everyone knows” that its tolerance of orgies is the Mark Warner Ocean Club resort’s main selling point.

One afternoon I decided to test this proposition, approaching two holiday reps there, dressed in their red Mark Warner sweatshirts. “Er, is this a good place for swingers, then?” I asked.

They looked at me in total bafflement. “Swingers?” one replied.

“Look around you, sir. Most of our guests are retired, or families with children.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482007/Lies-beatings-secret-trials-dark-police-handling-Madeleine-case.html
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 10:58:46 PM
They could be talking about policing in the 80s in the UK.

Late 1970s early 1980s The Special Patrol Group (SPG).
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 14, 2015, 11:00:21 PM
God help us all.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 14, 2015, 11:02:05 PM
Late 1970s early 1980s The Special Patrol Group (SPG).

but the UK has moved on whereas Portugal seems not to have
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 14, 2015, 11:08:43 PM
but the UK has moved on whereas Portugal seems not to have

Well many places are a bit dodgy; best not go beyond the soggy bit at Dover without mummy.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 14, 2015, 11:36:33 PM
but the UK has moved on whereas Portugal seems not to have

Really ?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/21/500-black-asian-deaths-custody-no-prosecutions
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 15, 2015, 12:42:06 AM
Really ?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/21/500-black-asian-deaths-custody-no-prosecutions

Portugal did have serious problem, and quite possibly does still have.  There never was anything like a serious Revolution.  The real shit bags just reinvented themselves.  And in the end it was just the same old same old.
I feel really sad about this.  But I do know of certain sure that the disappearance of that little girl will forever be the end of Facist Portugal.  Not one PJ Officer will ever again even think about beating anyone.
That poor little girl did so much for the real people.
 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 15, 2015, 08:22:21 AM
Well many places are a bit dodgy; best not go beyond the soggy bit at Dover without mummy.

My 90 yr old mother was saying the same last week...how old are you?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 08:33:12 AM
Really ?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/21/500-black-asian-deaths-custody-no-prosecutions
Is it possible to find any statistics for ethnic minority deaths in Portuguese prisons and whilst in custody for a similar period?  I don't suppose there have been any, seeing as how Portugal has never had a miscarriage of justice either (allegedly)!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 15, 2015, 08:48:17 AM
Portugal did have serious problem, and quite possibly does still have.  There never was anything like a serious Revolution.  The real shit bags just reinvented themselves.  And in the end it was just the same old same old.
I feel really sad about this.  But I do know of certain sure that the disappearance of that little girl will forever be the end of Facist Portugal.  Not one PJ Officer will ever again even think about beating anyone.
That poor little girl did so much for the real people.

Do you really believe in your wildest imaginings that Portugal is the only country where there are 'real shit bags' in positions of power. The ongoing investigation  into paedophile activity with politicians, judges, police, etc. involved should tell you a lot there, not that it wasn't clear before in that regard that those in authority will abuse their positions.

It's that old line about power corrupting.................................

As to Fascism ending, don't make me laugh.

You have never struck me as being naive Eleanor.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: sadie on April 15, 2015, 08:55:48 AM
Democracy much to some peoples annoyance. Like Amaral and Flores.

MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realised anything, she'd be in jail.

GA – Right, but in your time, in our old times, investigation was made with fuel. Now we all move on honey. Apart from that, this is a process that is uncomfortable for everyone. Nicely archived, nice and quiet, that's how it looks better. Everyone was happy.

That's how it looks better !

This case has been hallmarked by "looks", propaganda and myth making.  Seems those are some of the most important elements to Amarals [senior] crew.

All imo.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 15, 2015, 08:57:56 AM
That's how it looks better !

This case has been hallmarked by "looks", propaganda and myth making.  Seems those are some of the most important elements to Amarals [senior] crew.

All imo.

and we know what is the biggest myth of all sadie............

IMO, and many others, of course.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 15, 2015, 09:25:19 AM
My 90 yr old mother was saying the same last week...how old are you?

Mummy would have told me to say "The same age as my tongue and little bit older than my teeth".
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 15, 2015, 09:33:35 AM
Mummy would have told me to say "The same age as my tongue and little bit older than my teeth".

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 15, 2015, 10:01:54 AM
Portugal did have serious problem, and quite possibly does still have.  There never was anything like a serious Revolution.  The real shit bags just reinvented themselves.  And in the end it was just the same old same old.
I feel really sad about this.  But I do know of certain sure that the disappearance of that little girl will forever be the end of Facist Portugal.  Not one PJ Officer will ever again even think about beating anyone.
That poor little girl did so much for the real people.

It doesn't take a state to be facist for its police to beat a perceived offender. Have you seen the news from America recently ?

As to 'that poor little girl' who has done so much for the real people why then are the McCanns so unpopular ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: sadie on April 15, 2015, 10:49:38 AM
Portugal did have serious problem, and quite possibly does still have.  There never was anything like a serious Revolution.  The real shit bags just reinvented themselves.   And in the end it was just the same old same old..
I feel really sad about this.  But I do know of certain sure that the disappearance of that little girl will forever be the end of Facist Portugal.  Not one PJ Officer will ever again even think about beating anyone.
That poor little girl did so much for the real people.

 8@??)(  Very perceptive.


Portugal goes on as it always has but now it is wrapped up in disinformation, propaganda and glitzy paper to make it look palatable and new.


My PT friend did not even know what Democracy meant. 

He could not get his head around the concept of "innocent until proven Guilty".  Nor could he get his head around the concept that tortured out evidence was not evidence at all.  He said "But it is OK because it helps the PJ to solve cases"


sadie rolls her eyes in despair. 8(8-))



I think he had some understanding by the time I had finished with him !

Sadly it seems that THEY have suckered most of the people into thinking they, the ordinary trusting people, won in the mid 1970's


But Fascism still rules.


Amazing what lies, propaganda, media manipulation and "glitzy paper" can do to mislead the ordinary people
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: sadie on April 15, 2015, 10:52:36 AM
Mummy would have told me to say "The same age as my tongue and little bit older than my teeth".

Are you a priest, monk or ex pupil of Ampleforth College, perchance?

There is something familiar about the way that you put word to paper
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Moderator on April 15, 2015, 11:19:00 AM
Portugal is a very new democracy having had an extremely tortuous birth in 1976.  Little wonder therefore that much remains of the old guard and what it stood for. The police have had a difficult transition into what they look like today, some things take time.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 15, 2015, 01:05:04 PM
8@??)(  Very perceptive.


Portugal goes on as it always has but now it is wrapped up in disinformation, propaganda and glitzy paper to make it look palatable and new.


My PT friend did not even know what Democracy meant. 

He could not get his head around the concept of "innocent until proven Guilty".  Nor could he get his head around the concept that tortured out evidence was not evidence at all.  He said "But it is OK because it helps the PJ to solve cases"


sadie rolls her eyes in despair. 8(8-))



I think he had some understanding by the time I had finished with him !

Sadly it seems that THEY have suckered most of the people into thinking they, the ordinary trusting people, won in the mid 1970's


But Fascism still rules.


Amazing what lies, propaganda, media manipulation and "glitzy paper" can do to mislead the ordinary people


You have one PT friend and he doesn't know the concept "innocent until proven guilty"!! I have lots of Portuguese friends and they are well aware of the concept. I even had colleague at work whose husband was a judge and think that he would know the concept.

I don't think that you have even the slightest idea of what democracy is like in Portugal. For one thing, the people have more rights when comes to unions and public demonstrations than in the UK.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 01:09:09 PM
I think the following article sums up much of the 'reasoning' behind the very unfriendly press treatment to which the McCanns were subject.

In the days after Madeleine's disappearance criticism was being made that she was being looked for.

from the article ...
In his Thursday column in the Público newspaper, the former head of Portugal’s bar association, José Miguel Júdice, said the enormous mobilisation was due to the fact that the little girl “is English, white, and the daughter of doctors.”

In the cases of the 31 children who went missing last year in Portugal, “we didn’t see helicopters or planes chartered by TV stations, or hundreds of police officers and trained dogs,” he wrote.

The only thing I could say in response to that is ... why the Hell not ??


PORTUGAL: Some Missing Children More Equal than Others
By Mario de Queiroz
Reprint |      |  Print | Send by email
Mario de Queiroz

LISBON, May 18 2007 (IPS) - Never before has the Portuguese idiom “para o inglês ver” (literally: for the English to see), which means putting on a front to impress outsiders and ward off criticism, been so apt as today in Portugal, when the entire country has its attention riveted on the case of a four-year-old British girl who disappeared from a hotel two weeks ago.

The investigation into the May 3 disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a resort in Portugal’s southern Algarve region has come up with few leads and little evidence, despite the unprecedented police effort in a country where kidnappings of local children have gone largely unnoticed.

The saying “para o inglês ver”, remarkably pertinent with respect to this case, emerged in Brazil in 1831, when a law was passed prohibiting the importation of slaves under pressure from the British. However, the law was not enforced, and the slave trade continued at a brisk pace in Brazil and in Portugal’s African colonies, thus giving rise to the idiom that referred to a law approved merely for the sake of appearance.

Madeleine went missing from her hotel room at the Ocean Club resort in the village of Praia da Luz, where she was sleeping along with her two-year-old twin siblings while their parents had dinner at a poolside tapas bar 40 metres away.

Since then, the British ambassador has gotten involved, and the Judicial Police, with the support of other police forces, has launched a search and investigation operation of a scope never before seen in Portugal, with130 senior officers and 800 beat officers reportedly assigned to the case.

In the last two weeks, the quiet former fishing village of Praia da Luz has been overrun by police officers and their dogs, as well as battalions of British and Portuguese journalists who have set up satellite dishes to broadcast around the clock.

The only suspect investigated so far is Robert Murat, a British resident of Praia da Luz. Also questioned, but as a witness, was Russian computer specialist Sergei Malinka, who helped design a web site for Murat.

Murat’s home, near the Ocean Club, was searched by the police, who said they did not arrest him because not enough evidence was found, although tests are still being carried out on objects found in the dwelling.

The police have not been forthcoming with information, and much of the media coverage has been speculation.

The case has triggered a media feeding frenzy and has snowballed into an international cause, in which ordinary citizens, analysts, psychologists, doctors and criminologists have all offered their opinions and advice on radio and television programmes and web logs (blogs).

Some observers point out that Madeleine comes from a well-heeled British family (both of her parents are doctors), unlike so many Portuguese or immigrant children whose disappearance has drawn scant attention from the press.

Brazilian-Portuguese activist Ana Filgueiras told IPS that “the deployment of resources to find the missing girl is laudable, but it is regrettable that the same does not happen in the case of people who are less well-off. In Portugal we have never before seen a mobilisation of this magnitude.”

Filgueiras founded the non-governmental Brazilian Centre for the Defence of Children’s Rights (CBDDCA) in the 1970s, which drew attention to the killings of street children by military police in Rio de Janeiro.

“Across the globe, but especially in Africa, Latin America and Asia, the kidnapping of children is almost routine, but the phenomenon receives little coverage from media that are more interested in reporting each and every detail of the disappearance of a British girl, even though the case is insignificant in statistical terms,” said Filgueiras.

According to UNICEF (the U.N. children’s fund), 1.2 million children are trafficked every year around the world.

In Portugal, SOS Criança Desaparecida (SOS Missing Children) of the Instituto de Apoio à Crianza opened 31 new cases last year of missing children, involving 19 girls and 12 boys.

Filgueiras said that when Portuguese children go missing, “no TV station airs photos of the victims,” but in Madeleine’s case “we are watching a soap opera conceived of to boost ratings and readership to a maximum, by playing on people’s feelings.”

“If Madeleine were the daughter of parents from Africa, Eastern Europe or even Portugal, would the media have seized on it like this? Would there be so much news, and such an outpouring of concern?” asks someone writing at http://mrsleeves.blogspot.com, a Portuguese language blog.

Another blog, http://insolitos-da-gravata.blogspot.com/, notes that in the case of Joanna, a Portuguese girl who disappeared a year ago, “it took the police several days to start searching, while in this case it took just 30 minutes, and I can’t avoid thinking, selfishly, that it was only because she was from a well-off English family, since any of us would have had to wait for 48 hours after the disappearance, as established by law.”

The Judicial Police launched the investigation six hours after Kate McCann, Madeleine’s mother, reported that her daughter was missing. “Record time in Portugal,” said Carlos Anjos, president of the association of criminal investigators, who added, however, that six hours was enough time for the kidnappers to have sped across the border with Spain, just 150 kilometres away.

In his Thursday column in the Público newspaper, the former head of Portugal’s bar association, José Miguel Júdice, said the enormous mobilisation was due to the fact that the little girl “is English, white, and the daughter of doctors.”

In the cases of the 31 children who went missing last year in Portugal, “we didn’t see helicopters or planes chartered by TV stations, or hundreds of police officers and trained dogs,” he wrote.

The British and Portuguese media have not reacted this way on other occasions, “and they couldn’t care less about reporting on the immense tragedy in (the Sudanese region of) Darfur, because doing so is infinitely more dangerous and brings less audience and readership than describing, live and direct, every single detail of the family drama” in Praia da Luz, Júdice maintained.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2007/05/portugal-some-missing-children-more-equal-than-others/

 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 15, 2015, 01:11:37 PM
You have one PT friend and he doesn't know the concept "innocent until proven guilty"!! I have lots of Portuguese friends and they are well aware of the concept. I even had colleague at work whose husband was a judge and think that he would know the concept.

I don't think that you have even the slightest idea of what democracy is like in Portugal. For one thing, the people have more rights when comes to unions and public demonstrations than in the UK.

To be honest Montclair I don't think it would have mattered which country Madeleine had disappeared in the faithful would still have given it a verbal kicking.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 15, 2015, 01:19:17 PM
To be honest Montclair I don't think it would have mattered which country Madeleine had disappeared in the faithful would still have given it a verbal kicking.

Oh, so true!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: sadie on April 15, 2015, 01:22:40 PM
You have one PT friend and he doesn't know the concept "innocent until proven guilty"!! I have lots of Portuguese friends and they are well aware of the concept. I even had colleague at work whose husband was a judge and think that he would know the concept.

I don't think that you have even the slightest idea of what democracy is like in Portugal. For one thing, the people have more rights when comes to unions and public demonstrations than in the UK.
I have a number actually Montclair.

But only one that i have gone thru discussing Democracy with.

He accepted the blurb that PT was now Democratic ... but didn't understand the basic principles of Democracy.

He was gobsmacked when he realised that PT was not being Democratic, especially with the torture bit.  As long as the PJ got results he thought that OK.



And he definitely wanted the accused to prove their innocense rather than the Police to prove thei guilt.



I think he understands now tho.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Lyall on April 15, 2015, 01:24:59 PM
I think the following article sums up much of the 'reasoning' behind the very unfriendly press treatment to which the McCanns were subject.

In the days after Madeleine's disappearance criticism was being made that she was being looked for.

from the article ...
In his Thursday column in the Público newspaper, the former head of Portugal’s bar association, José Miguel Júdice, said the enormous mobilisation was due to the fact that the little girl “is English, white, and the daughter of doctors.”

In the cases of the 31 children who went missing last year in Portugal, “we didn’t see helicopters or planes chartered by TV stations, or hundreds of police officers and trained dogs,” he wrote.

The only thing I could say in response to that is ... why the Hell not ??


PORTUGAL: Some Missing Children More Equal than Others
By Mario de Queiroz
Reprint |      |  Print | Send by email
Mario de Queiroz

LISBON, May 18 2007 (IPS) - Never before has the Portuguese idiom “para o inglês ver” (literally: for the English to see), which means putting on a front to impress outsiders and ward off criticism, been so apt as today in Portugal, when the entire country has its attention riveted on the case of a four-year-old British girl who disappeared from a hotel two weeks ago.

The investigation into the May 3 disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a resort in Portugal’s southern Algarve region has come up with few leads and little evidence, despite the unprecedented police effort in a country where kidnappings of local children have gone largely unnoticed.

The saying “para o inglês ver”, remarkably pertinent with respect to this case, emerged in Brazil in 1831, when a law was passed prohibiting the importation of slaves under pressure from the British. However, the law was not enforced, and the slave trade continued at a brisk pace in Brazil and in Portugal’s African colonies, thus giving rise to the idiom that referred to a law approved merely for the sake of appearance.

Madeleine went missing from her hotel room at the Ocean Club resort in the village of Praia da Luz, where she was sleeping along with her two-year-old twin siblings while their parents had dinner at a poolside tapas bar 40 metres away.

Since then, the British ambassador has gotten involved, and the Judicial Police, with the support of other police forces, has launched a search and investigation operation of a scope never before seen in Portugal, with130 senior officers and 800 beat officers reportedly assigned to the case.

In the last two weeks, the quiet former fishing village of Praia da Luz has been overrun by police officers and their dogs, as well as battalions of British and Portuguese journalists who have set up satellite dishes to broadcast around the clock.

The only suspect investigated so far is Robert Murat, a British resident of Praia da Luz. Also questioned, but as a witness, was Russian computer specialist Sergei Malinka, who helped design a web site for Murat.

Murat’s home, near the Ocean Club, was searched by the police, who said they did not arrest him because not enough evidence was found, although tests are still being carried out on objects found in the dwelling.

The police have not been forthcoming with information, and much of the media coverage has been speculation.

The case has triggered a media feeding frenzy and has snowballed into an international cause, in which ordinary citizens, analysts, psychologists, doctors and criminologists have all offered their opinions and advice on radio and television programmes and web logs (blogs).

Some observers point out that Madeleine comes from a well-heeled British family (both of her parents are doctors), unlike so many Portuguese or immigrant children whose disappearance has drawn scant attention from the press.

Brazilian-Portuguese activist Ana Filgueiras told IPS that “the deployment of resources to find the missing girl is laudable, but it is regrettable that the same does not happen in the case of people who are less well-off. In Portugal we have never before seen a mobilisation of this magnitude.”

Filgueiras founded the non-governmental Brazilian Centre for the Defence of Children’s Rights (CBDDCA) in the 1970s, which drew attention to the killings of street children by military police in Rio de Janeiro.

“Across the globe, but especially in Africa, Latin America and Asia, the kidnapping of children is almost routine, but the phenomenon receives little coverage from media that are more interested in reporting each and every detail of the disappearance of a British girl, even though the case is insignificant in statistical terms,” said Filgueiras.

According to UNICEF (the U.N. children’s fund), 1.2 million children are trafficked every year around the world.

In Portugal, SOS Criança Desaparecida (SOS Missing Children) of the Instituto de Apoio à Crianza opened 31 new cases last year of missing children, involving 19 girls and 12 boys.

Filgueiras said that when Portuguese children go missing, “no TV station airs photos of the victims,” but in Madeleine’s case “we are watching a soap opera conceived of to boost ratings and readership to a maximum, by playing on people’s feelings.”

“If Madeleine were the daughter of parents from Africa, Eastern Europe or even Portugal, would the media have seized on it like this? Would there be so much news, and such an outpouring of concern?” asks someone writing at http://mrsleeves.blogspot.com, a Portuguese language blog.

Another blog, http://insolitos-da-gravata.blogspot.com/, notes that in the case of Joanna, a Portuguese girl who disappeared a year ago, “it took the police several days to start searching, while in this case it took just 30 minutes, and I can’t avoid thinking, selfishly, that it was only because she was from a well-off English family, since any of us would have had to wait for 48 hours after the disappearance, as established by law.”

The Judicial Police launched the investigation six hours after Kate McCann, Madeleine’s mother, reported that her daughter was missing. “Record time in Portugal,” said Carlos Anjos, president of the association of criminal investigators, who added, however, that six hours was enough time for the kidnappers to have sped across the border with Spain, just 150 kilometres away.

In his Thursday column in the Público newspaper, the former head of Portugal’s bar association, José Miguel Júdice, said the enormous mobilisation was due to the fact that the little girl “is English, white, and the daughter of doctors.”

In the cases of the 31 children who went missing last year in Portugal, “we didn’t see helicopters or planes chartered by TV stations, or hundreds of police officers and trained dogs,” he wrote.

The British and Portuguese media have not reacted this way on other occasions, “and they couldn’t care less about reporting on the immense tragedy in (the Sudanese region of) Darfur, because doing so is infinitely more dangerous and brings less audience and readership than describing, live and direct, every single detail of the family drama” in Praia da Luz, Júdice maintained.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2007/05/portugal-some-missing-children-more-equal-than-others/

Mainly just means the media campaign events were counterproductive with some people. Nothing more than that.

They were with me back in the UK, so it's no surprise they would be a good deal more with some of those in Portugal.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 01:56:13 PM
Mainly just means the media campaign events were counterproductive with some people. Nothing more than that.

They were with me back in the UK, so it's no surprise they would be a good deal more with some of those in Portugal.

I have just watched a news broadcast of parents making an appeal for information on their missing daughter ... that is what happens ... publicity!

I am sickened that only fifteen days after Madeleine's disappearance in Portugal there was already resentment being publicly expressed that she was being looked for.

If you think that is acceptable and wish to defend it, that is between you and your conscience.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Lyall on April 15, 2015, 02:22:06 PM
I have just watched a news broadcast of parents making an appeal for information on their missing daughter ... that is what happens ... publicity!

I am sickened that only fifteen days after Madeleine's disappearance in Portugal there was already resentment being publicly expressed that she was being looked for.

If you think that is acceptable and wish to defend it, that is between you and your conscience.

There was - in UK and doubtless much more so in Portugal - concern that the media circus hampered police and reduced Madeleine's chances (if abducted/kidnapped and still alive).

I've no problem defending that.

That concern emerged much sooner than 15 days in.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 03:04:03 PM
There was - in UK and doubtless much more so in Portugal - concern that the media circus hampered police and reduced Madeleine's chances (if abducted/kidnapped and still alive).

I've no problem defending that.

That concern emerged much sooner than 15 days in.

In the UK the police use the media to get the message out and they keep them informed. They will advise relatives what to say and what not to say during an appeal. In Portugal this doesn't happen, so the parents took it upon themselves to publicise not just the disappearance but also their own conclusions on why their daughter disappeared. The UK media ran the story that she had been abducted because that was the story given to them. The apartment had been broken into and a child taken.

Once it emerged that the apartment had not been broken into the questions began.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: jassi on April 15, 2015, 03:09:50 PM
In the UK the police use the media to get the message out and they keep them informed. They will advise relatives what to say and what not to say during an appeal. In Portugal this doesn't happen, so the parents took it upon themselves to publicise not just the disappearance but also their own conclusions on why their daughter disappeared. The UK media ran the story that she had been abducted because that was the story given to them. The apartment had been broken into and a child taken.

Once it emerged that the apartment had not been broken into the questions began.

And are unlikely to ever go away.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 15, 2015, 03:23:30 PM
Are you a priest, monk or ex pupil of Ampleforth College, perchance?

There is something familiar about the way that you put word to paper

No.
No and
No.
Possibly I went to school in North Hertfordshire at the intersection of the old A1 and old A505  @)(++(*

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 15, 2015, 03:24:54 PM
To be honest Montclair I don't think it would have mattered which country Madeleine had disappeared in the faithful would still have given it a verbal kicking.

An odds on racing certainty more like.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 04:50:02 PM
There was - in UK and doubtless much more so in Portugal - concern that the media circus hampered police and reduced Madeleine's chances (if abducted/kidnapped and still alive).

I've no problem defending that.

That concern emerged much sooner than 15 days in.

Oh I know ... when you are looking for a missing person ... best to do it in secret ... no photographs ... no public appeals ...

Wonder why other law enforcement professionals haven't thought to use that model      £4%4£
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 04:52:39 PM
In the UK the police use the media to get the message out and they keep them informed. They will advise relatives what to say and what not to say during an appeal. In Portugal this doesn't happen, so the parents took it upon themselves to publicise not just the disappearance but also their own conclusions on why their daughter disappeared. The UK media ran the story that she had been abducted because that was the story given to them. The apartment had been broken into and a child taken.

Once it emerged that the apartment had not been broken into the questions began.

You know that Madeleine had not been abducted ... how exactly?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 15, 2015, 05:22:28 PM
In the UK the police use the media to get the message out and they keep them informed. They will advise relatives what to say and what not to say during an appeal. In Portugal this doesn't happen, so the parents took it upon themselves to publicise not just the disappearance but also their own conclusions on why their daughter disappeared. The UK media ran the story that she had been abducted because that was the story given to them. The apartment had been broken into and a child taken.

Once it emerged that the apartment had not been broken into the questions began.

Any normal person's immediate first thoughts on finding their daughter missing  - and the previously closed window in her room -  now wide open - would be that someone had got in through that window and abducted their child.

There would be something wrong with them if they didn't think that IMO.

Later - when more facts emerged -  they realised that the intruder may have entered via other means.

Also perfectly normal.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 15, 2015, 05:38:51 PM
Any normal person's immediate first thoughts on finding their daughter missing  - and the previously closed window in her room -  now wide open - would be that someone had got in through that window and abducted their child.

There would be something wrong with them if they didn't think that IMO.

Later - when more facts emerged -  they realised that the intruder may have entered via other means.

Also perfectly normal.

The police didn't see the window open and finger prints found were not from an abductor. You would think he/she would wear gloves but no marks found.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: DCI on April 15, 2015, 05:54:09 PM
The police didn't see the window open and finger prints found were not from an abductor. You would think he/she would wear gloves but no marks found.

Did they look.

Yes and you would think there would have been other prints found. If Amaral thinks Madeliene climbed on the windowsill, why no fingerprints or fibres from her pyjamas.
Out of all the people who had been in the apartment, all week, very conveniently only Kates were found. Looks like no other places were tested. Surely, Gerry and the twins prints should have been found, somewhere.
If that womans show of forensics was anything to go by, is it any wonder?

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 06:25:13 PM
You have one PT friend and he doesn't know the concept "innocent until proven guilty"!! I have lots of Portuguese friends and they are well aware of the concept. I even had colleague at work whose husband was a judge and think that he would know the concept.

I don't think that you have even the slightest idea of what democracy is like in Portugal. For one thing, the people have more rights when comes to unions and public demonstrations than in the UK.

Ofcourse it is just a concept...because here's the thing. If I kill someone I am guilty of killing that person, there is nothing innocent about it.BUT in the eye of the Law (mega bucks industry for the great and the greedy) I may be 'found' to be innocent ON ACCOUNT that no one saw me and CPS had no 'evidence' proof'...cool eh?  well sweet for the crims.

UK does not have a 'democracy' in any form.. we are serfs- ruled by monarch we are still slaves. Dontcha know!
It is a romantic notion thrown at us during election time...




Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 06:26:25 PM
Ofcourse it is just a concept...because here's the thing. If I kill someone I am guilty of killing that person, there is nothing innocent about it.BUT in the eye of the Law (mega bucks industry for the great and the greedy) I may be 'found' to be innocent ON ACCOUNT that no one saw me and CPS had no 'evidence' proof'...cool eh?  well sweet for the crims.

UK does not have a 'democracy' in any form.. we are serfs- ruled by monarch we are still slaves. Dontcha know!
It is a romantic notion thrown at us during election time...
@)(++(*
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 06:27:50 PM
Just wondering did April Jones parents meet the pope? go on Oprah? go jogging and blogging.. I heard they were and still are distraught....
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 06:36:17 PM
Just wondering did April Jones parents meet the pope? go on Oprah? go jogging and blogging.. I heard they were and still are distraught....
No but they have written a book which is on sale at half-price on Amazon and WHSmiths, which, according to sceptic logic means that no one wants to buy it and is therefore a flop. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 15, 2015, 06:38:06 PM
Just wondering did April Jones parents meet the pope? go on Oprah? go jogging and blogging.. I heard they were and still are distraught....

Perhaps they were more concerned about their daughter and not becoming 'z-list celebs'.

Or perhaps not. %£&)**# &%&£(+ &%+((£

The Jones were concerned about their daughter.

As to the mccanns, actions speak louder than words.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
Sceptics will also be disgusted to learn that profits from the book by April Jones' parents are being given to Missing People Charity, of which Kate is the ambassador. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: jassi on April 15, 2015, 06:42:03 PM
I should think most will be delighted that it is going to a real charity  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 06:42:48 PM
No but they have written a book which is on sale at half-price on Amazon and WHSmiths, which, according to sceptic logic means that no one wants to buy it and is therefore a flop.

So... what you are saying is, they should have had a marketing manager, fund organiser and lawyers galore, oh and full backing of the 'good and the great'....and and a PR team.  wow see now we know the difference.

Which sceptics are these you speak of, and whatare they sceptics of?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 06:42:58 PM
I should think most will be delighted that it is going to a real charity  ?{)(**
I think you'll find that most "sceptics" don't consider Missing People to be a real charity.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 06:44:05 PM
So... what you are saying is, they should have had a marketing manager, fund organiser and lawyers galore, oh and full backing of the 'good and the great'....and and a PR team.  wow see now we know the difference.

Which sceptics are these you speak of, and whatare they sceptics of?

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? 
You're a sceptic, and you are sceptical of the McCanns' version of events, are you not?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 06:46:39 PM
You know how I arrived at that...work it out!. Why is Aprils mum not an ambassador?

What is it you are accusing me of exactly; calling me a sceptic?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 06:50:44 PM
You know how I arrived at that...work it out!. Why is Aprils mum not an ambassador?

What is it you are accusing me of exactly; calling me a sceptic?
Why is April's mum not an ambassador?  You'd have to ask the charity that.  Obviously she is a supporter of the charity however.
I'm not accusing you of anything, just stating a fact.  Do you have a problem being called a sceptic?  I'm regularly referred to as "the Faithful" - is that OK with you?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 07:00:04 PM
You know that Madeleine had not been abducted ... how exactly?

What I know is the sensational story told to the media on 3rd/4th May by friends and family of the McCanns that the apartment had been broken into. The story was immediately denied by John Hill. Whether the parents did it by mistake or not it is one of the reasons they were looked at with suspicion. The second problem was them leaving the children alone in an unlocked apartment, which wasn't in the first stories as far as I know. That confirmed there was no need for a break-in, all that was needed was a walk-in. After that everything they said and did was taken with a large pinch of salt.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:00:42 PM
I have no opinion on what you call me. You are now claiming that I am a sceptic as a fact- so why not share what it is I am sceptical about.

It is no secret that I do not hold any theory of  which there are many,what happened to little Maddie as being the truth.

I do not wish the parents to be harmed,and do not accuse them of  murdering their child, or hiding  bodies.  Now what is it I am sceptical about- without any evidence /proof -no theory can be sold as a given.

Is this what makes me a sceptic?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 07:02:53 PM
I have no opinion on what you call me. You are now claiming that I am a sceptic as a fact- so why not share what it is I am sceptical about.

It is no secret that I do not hold any theory of  which there are many,what happened to little Maddie as being the truth.

I do not wish the parents to be harmed,and do not accuse them of  murdering their child, or hiding  bodies.  Now what is it I am sceptical about- without any evidence /proof -no theory can be sold as a given.

Is this what makes me a sceptic?
You tell me.  If you actually do believe that it's most likely that the McCanns were telling the truth about the events of that night as they perceived them, then you are not so much a McCann sceptic, more a critic. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:03:28 PM
What I know is the sensational story told to the media on 3rd/4th May by friends and family of the McCanns that the apartment had been broken into. The story was immediately denied by John Hill. Whether the parents did it by mistake or not it is one of the reasons they were looked at with suspicion. The second problem was them leaving the children alone in an unlocked apartment, which wasn't in the first stories as far as I know. That confirmed there was no need for a break-in, all that was needed was a walk-in. After that everything they said and did was taken with a large pinch of salt.

Sadly G that is the truth! arrogance and self preservation took over in my opinion.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 15, 2015, 07:04:31 PM
I think you'll find that most "sceptics" don't consider Missing People to be a real charity.

I wonder why when it was obvious that the fund would no longer be needed to fund the search for Madeleine the money in it wasn't given to Missing People as some of the money paid to the McCanns by the Sunday Times was ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
You tell me.  If you actually do believe that it's most likely that the McCanns were telling the truth about the events of that night as they perceived them, then you are not so much a McCann sceptic, more a critic.

No Alfie, stating facts is not critizising - it is stating facts! You know those facts you and your 'non sceptic' love to chuck around about anyone who dares to speak against Team McCann.

I have just said I do not hold any theory up as actual events. ANY. Not a one... due to lack of evidence or proof to charge and find guilty perpetrators.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:10:32 PM
I wonder why when it was obvious that the fund would no longer be needed to fund the search for Madeleine the money in it wasn't given to Missing People as some of the money paid to the McCanns by the Sunday Times was ?


Yeah Faith. That did disgust me as well.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 07:11:04 PM
I wonder why when it was obvious that the fund would no longer be needed to fund the search for Madeleine the money in it wasn't given to Missing People as some of the money paid to the McCanns by the Sunday Times was ?
Perhaps because the Investigation has not yet found Madeleine, and may be closed without finding her, at which point the McCanns will no doubt put the fund money to resume their own private investigation.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 15, 2015, 07:11:51 PM
Sceptics will also be disgusted to learn that profits from the book by April Jones' parents are being given to Missing People Charity, of which Kate is the ambassador.

an ambassador
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 07:12:46 PM
No Alfie, stating facts is not critizising - it is stating facts! You know those facts you and your 'non sceptic' love to chuck around about anyone who dares to speak against Team McCann.

I have just said I do not hold any theory up as actual events. ANY. Not a one... due to lack of evidence or proof to charge and find guilty perpetrators.
So you have no opinion whatsoever on whether or not the McCanns are liars / body hiders etc?  And you have never once been critical of the McCanns?? Gosh.  I stand corrected then. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 07:13:56 PM
an ambassador
And I stand corrected again.  Look at me, admitting my mistakes all over de place.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 07:14:25 PM
No Alfie, stating facts is not critizising - it is stating facts! You know those facts you and your 'non sceptic' love to chuck around about anyone who dares to speak against Team McCann.

I have just said I do not hold any theory up as actual events. ANY. Not a one... due to lack of evidence or proof to charge and find guilty perpetrators.

Very very well said.  8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 07:14:39 PM

Yeah Faith. That did disgust me as well.
Hmmm...that sounds a teensy weensy bit like a criticism. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:19:52 PM
So you have no opinion whatsoever on whether or not the McCanns are liars / body hiders etc?  And you have never once been critical of the McCanns?? Gosh.  I stand corrected then.

Kate McCANN admits to telling lies, they have been shown as being untrustworthy. These are facts.
I have never accused  them of killing their daughter or hiding bodies or being paedophiles /swingers.

They made bad descisions- I comment on them...

 I discuss with others, anomolies in all the theories as this is a discussion forum- you want to call it McCann Bashing- you have issues.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 15, 2015, 07:23:55 PM
Perhaps because the Investigation has not yet found Madeleine, and may be closed without finding her, at which point the McCanns will no doubt put the fund money to resume their own private investigation.

And what would be the point if three police forces and tens of millions of pounds were unsuccessful ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 15, 2015, 07:29:04 PM
I think you'll find that most "sceptics" don't consider Missing People to be a real charity.

Is that right? Silly them. The Charities Commission think it's real.
Guess this makes me a pretendy sceptic. What a shame!
It is Missing People Limited; Reg. Char. No. 1020419. last figures: income £2.225MM expenditure £2.312MM.
Assets £1.37MM liabilities £0.37MM.
Nine ambassadors of whom KM is one.


Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 07:29:38 PM
Perhaps they were more concerned about their daughter and not becoming 'z-list celebs'.

Or perhaps not. %£&)**# &%&£(+ &%+((£

The Jones were concerned about their daughter.

As to the mccanns, actions speak louder than words.

Doesn't it occur to you that it has been proved April Jones is dead.  Her parents know that.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:34:26 PM
Hmmm...that sounds a teensy weensy bit like a criticism.

No Alfie, pay attention. Facts ...News of the world had money which they gave to 'charities' NOT FUNDS! this was donated by the public for VARIOUS CHARITIES not FUNDS.. when the NOW closed it gave all the money to A FUND without consulting the public who donated the money. Now I feel quite disgusted at this. The FUND is not a charity they should have handed it o to a charity or refused it!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 07:38:45 PM
What I know is the sensational story told to the media on 3rd/4th May by friends and family of the McCanns that the apartment had been broken into. The story was immediately denied by John Hill. Whether the parents did it by mistake or not it is one of the reasons they were looked at with suspicion. The second problem was them leaving the children alone in an unlocked apartment, which wasn't in the first stories as far as I know. That confirmed there was no need for a break-in, all that was needed was a walk-in. After that everything they said and did was taken with a large pinch of salt.

Oh, I see ... all your suppositions based on really hard prejudice ... quelle surprise!  but thanks for the answer.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 07:43:05 PM
Kate McCANN admits to telling lies, they have been shown as being untrustworthy. These are facts.
I have never accused  them of killing their daughter or hiding bodies or being paedophiles /swingers.

They made bad descisions- I comment on them...

 I discuss with others, anomolies in all the theories as this is a discussion forum- you want to call it McCann Bashing- you have issues.

Wonder if you would give me a cite for Dr McCann admitting to telling lies ... I have asked Stephen for one but he hasn't bothered ... maybe you can assist?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 15, 2015, 07:50:37 PM
Wonder if you would give me a cite for Dr McCann admitting to telling lies ... I have asked Stephen for one but he hasn't bothered ... maybe you can assist?

To do a 'Davel'... It has been said on another thread.  Or  you could buy and read Kates book. It is in there.
SHe mentioned she had to tell a lie, and didn't like it.

It was debated at lenght, but then you know that because it claimed it was..just a little lie" and that is where we discovered that Kate's lies are  better than anyone elses'. We also discovered that there were 'shades' and levels of lies..oh how  laughed that night!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 08:08:57 PM
Oh, I see ... all your suppositions based on really hard prejudice ... quelle surprise!  but thanks for the answer.

My 'suppositions'are actually facts, 'prejudice' doesn't enter into it;

According to friends and relatives, her mother, Kate McCann, came back to check on her three children and found Madeleine's 18-month-old brother and sister asleep in cots on either side of her empty bed. The window had been forced open and the door left ajar.

"They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut," said Trish Cameron, Madeleine's aunt. "Kate went back at 10pm to check, the front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jammied open, and Madeleine was missing."

"It looks as if somebody has come in the window, that's either been watching or they've targeted her."

John Hill, the manager at the British-run Mark Warner resort, said Madeleine's parents and twin siblings were distraught and that sniffer dogs had been brought in to comb the resort, while border police in Portugal and Spain had been alerted to her disappearance.

He denied reports that the windows to the apartment had been forced open, while another spokesman said a set of French windows had been left unlocked.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/04-05-07-Times-Transcript.htm
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 10:03:06 PM
Kate McCANN admits to telling lies, they have been shown as being untrustworthy. These are facts.
I have never accused  them of killing their daughter or hiding bodies or being paedophiles /swingers.

They made bad descisions- I comment on them...

 I discuss with others, anomolies in all the theories as this is a discussion forum- you want to call it McCann Bashing- you have issues.
OK I'll call a spade a spade then - a McCann basher is precisely what you are.  Why this description should irk you so I have no idea as it is an accurate description of what you do.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 10:04:28 PM
And what would be the point if three police forces and tens of millions of pounds were unsuccessful ?
Because unlike 3 police forces they have vowed never to give up looking for her - got a problem with that?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 10:15:29 PM
To do a 'Davel'... It has been said on another thread.  Or  you could buy and read Kates book. It is in there.
SHe mentioned she had to tell a lie, and didn't like it.

It was debated at lenght, but then you know that because it claimed it was..just a little lie" and that is where we discovered that Kate's lies are  better than anyone elses'. We also discovered that there were 'shades' and levels of lies..oh how  laughed that night!

Hmmm ... so you are prepared to make a pejorative statement which you cannot corroborate.  No change there then.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2015, 10:20:27 PM
My 'suppositions'are actually facts, 'prejudice' doesn't enter into it;

According to friends and relatives, her mother, Kate McCann, came back to check on her three children and found Madeleine's 18-month-old brother and sister asleep in cots on either side of her empty bed. The window had been forced open and the door left ajar.

"They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut," said Trish Cameron, Madeleine's aunt. "Kate went back at 10pm to check, the front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jammied open, and Madeleine was missing."

"It looks as if somebody has come in the window, that's either been watching or they've targeted her."

John Hill, the manager at the British-run Mark Warner resort, said Madeleine's parents and twin siblings were distraught and that sniffer dogs had been brought in to comb the resort, while border police in Portugal and Spain had been alerted to her disappearance.

He denied reports that the windows to the apartment had been forced open, while another spokesman said a set of French windows had been left unlocked.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/04-05-07-Times-Transcript.htm

Unadulterated prejudice ... we all know there was no forced entry ... and third party statements from distraught relations don't cut the mustard.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 15, 2015, 11:08:12 PM
No Alfie, pay attention. Facts ...News of the world had money which they gave to 'charities' NOT FUNDS! this was donated by the public for VARIOUS CHARITIES not FUNDS.. when the NOW closed it gave all the money to A FUND without consulting the public who donated the money. Now I feel quite disgusted at this. The FUND is not a charity they should have handed it o to a charity or refused it!
It is a FACT that if you say you are DISGUSTED by someone's actions that it is a CRITICISM:

"the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes".

Why do you have a problem with accepting that you are both critical and sceptical of the McCanns?  Shouldn't you be deeply proud of yourself and your on-going actions against this couple that you find so incredibly loathesome?

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 15, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Brietta link=topic=6191.msg232974#msg232974 date=1 8(0(*429132827
Unadulterated prejudice ... we all know there was no forced entry ... and third party statements from distraught relations don't cut the mustard.

Prejudice; forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case. The word is often used to refer to preconceived, usually unfavorable, judgments toward people or a person

My opinions on this case have been formed based on the facts as they have emerged. I had no opinions about the McCanns prior to that. How could I have had? I'd never heard of 'em. I don't have any strong opinions about them now, unlike some, who seem to have them on such a high pedestal they're practically out of sight.  8(0(*

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 15, 2015, 11:44:23 PM
Because unlike 3 police forces they have vowed never to give up looking for her - got a problem with that?

I believe three generations of the Needham family have recently returned from Greece where they were checking out a lead that may have been Ben. That's what you call real searching for your loved one....and it doesn't take a massive fund.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 16, 2015, 01:24:20 AM
Prejudice; forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case. The word is often used to refer to preconceived, usually unfavorable, judgments toward people or a person

My opinions on this case have been formed based on the facts as they have emerged. I had no opinions about the McCanns prior to that. How could I have had? I'd never heard of 'em. I don't have any strong opinions about them now, unlike some, who seem to have them on such a high pedestal they're practically out of sight.  8(0(*

Much of what you post is based on exactly the type of misinformation and myth prevalent in the press at the time which was subsequently proved to be a tissue of lies.

The fact of the matter is that the mistaken path taken by the initial investigation has been discarded by the present SY and PJ investigations.
I'm sorry if you don't like it but that is the fact of the matter.

You would not devalue your argument by fatuous statements such as that in your last sentence if your argument was capable of standing up to scrutiny.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 16, 2015, 08:09:25 AM
I believe three generations of the Needham family have recently returned from Greece where they were checking out a lead that may have been Ben. That's what you call real searching for your loved one....and it doesn't take a massive fund.
Why are they soliciting funds from the public?  Isn't Kerry's book being used to fund the search?  What, pray, is the difference?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 16, 2015, 08:14:52 AM
I believe three generations of the Needham family have recently returned from Greece where they were checking out a lead that may have been Ben. That's what you call real searching for your loved one....and it doesn't take a massive fund.

The mccanns have achieved a lot more than the Needhams as regards searching...well done to them
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: jassi on April 16, 2015, 08:28:56 AM
The mccanns have achieved a lot more than the Needhams as regards searching...well done to them

Really? What have they achieved? Has Madeleine been found?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 16, 2015, 08:33:50 AM
Really? What have they achieved? Has Madeleine been found?
That's not how you measure achievement..Has Ben been found?

I think the mccanns campaign to find Maddie has been incredible...others want to criticise them for just about everything they do. These forums are NOT about justice for Maddie they are about bashing the McCanns
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 16, 2015, 08:59:43 AM
Much of what you post is based on exactly the type of misinformation and myth prevalent in the press at the time which was subsequently proved to be a tissue of lies.

The fact of the matter is that the mistaken path taken by the initial investigation has been discarded by the present SY and PJ investigations.
I'm sorry if you don't like it but that is the fact of the matter.

You would not devalue your argument by fatuous statements such as that in your last sentence if your argument was capable of standing up to scrutiny.

If the press printed a tissue of lies on 4th May they got them from friends and relatives of the McCanns. The present investigation is not relevant to this thread, so why mention it?

Everyone makes fatuous comments about me and my opinions, to which I try not to respond as it's too childish. Couldn't resist that one though.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 16, 2015, 09:22:24 AM
Just wondering did April Jones parents meet the pope? go on Oprah? go jogging and blogging.. I heard they were and still are distraught....

'Wonder' no more -  AFAIK they didn't go  jogging - but Paul Jones did find it helped to go for long walks up the surrounding hills a lot.  I suppose as long as he never broke into a jog - that's OK with you?   

Why would they want to meet the Pope - they weren't Catholics?

Also - if we are making comparisons  - it would appear that April's parents did not spend the whole night out and about searching for their daughter on the day she was abducted.   Nor did they join in with the following searches.    An unforgiveable sin apparently.
 
They also set up a fund - not a charity.

Like Kate - Coral has also said she will always carry the guilt of knowing that she allowed her little girl to  be in a situation where an abductor was able to take her.

Unlike the rest of us  - Coral Jones actually knows Kate McCann - and believes and supports her - along with other parents of abducted children - like Sara Payne and Kerry Needham.

I often wonder how 'sceptics' square that extremely inconvenient fact with their own completely opposite beliefs?

   
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 16, 2015, 09:22:56 AM
It is a FACT that if you say you are DISGUSTED by someone's actions that it is a CRITICISM:

"the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes".

Why do you have a problem with accepting that you are both critical and sceptical of the McCanns?  Shouldn't you be deeply proud of yourself and your on-going actions against this couple that you find so incredibly loathesome?

The fact that you find it important enough to take time out of your happy life to call me names and set me into a /category, says more about you than me.

The McCANNS COURTED THE PRESS FROM THE BEGINNING- for PR reasons in my opinion.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 16, 2015, 09:25:40 AM
The fact that you find it important enough to take time out of your happy life to call me names and set me into a /category, says more about you than me.

The McCANNS COURTED THE PRESS FROM THE BEGINNING- for PR reasons in my opinion.

 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 16, 2015, 09:33:23 AM
The fact that you find it important enough to take time out of your happy life to call me names and set me into a /category, says more about you than me.

The McCANNS COURTED THE PRESS FROM THE BEGINNING- for PR reasons in my opinion.
fortunately your opinion...nor mine ..is of any importance whatsoever
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 09:41:55 AM
'Wonder' no more -  AFAIK they didn't go  jogging - but Paul Jones did find it helped to go for long walks up the surrounding hills a lot.  I suppose as long as he never broke into a jog - that's OK with you?   

Why would they want to meet the Pope - they weren't Catholics?

Also - if we are making comparisons  - it would appear that April's parents did not spend the whole night out and about searching for their daughter on the day she was abducted.   Nor did they join in with the following searches.    An unforgiveable sin apparently.
 
They also set up a fund - not a charity.

Like Kate - Coral has also said she will always carry the guilt of knowing that she allowed her little girl to  be in a situation where an abductor was able to take her.

Unlike the rest of us  - Coral Jones actually knows Kate McCann - and believes and supports her - along with other parents of abducted children - like Sara Payne and Kerry Needham.

I often wonder how 'sceptics' square that extremely inconvenient fact with their own completely opposite beliefs?

 

The April Jones fund was given charitable status so you are wrong Benice it was a charity. I believe it has now been wound up with the remaining monies given to local causes. But while it was functioning I believe it was used to pay for search teams. Another difference to the Madeleine fund is April's parents were not directors of the fund.

As to Carol 'knowing' Kate McCann I believe she's met her on a few occasions, a bit like saying Teresa May knows Kate McCann just because they've met. I may be wrong but I don't think either Sara Payne or Kerry Needham have met Kate so I'm sure have no more knowledge of Madeleine's disappearance than us.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 16, 2015, 09:55:21 AM
The April Jones fund was given charitable status so you are wrong Benice it was a charity. I believe it has now been wound up with the remaining monies given to local causes. But while it was functioning I believe it was used to pay for search teams. Another difference to the Madeleine fund is April's parents were not directors of the fund.

As to Carol 'knowing' Kate McCann I believe she's met her on a few occasions, a bit like saying Teresa May knows Kate McCann just because they've met. I may be wrong but I don't think either Sara Payne or Kerry Needham have met Kate so I'm sure have no more knowledge of Madeleine's disappearance than us.

There are many differences with the McCANNS and other ,missing,/ Murdered children.
There was evidence to convict in most cases. Aprils mum does feel guilty-the fact is most people would- She didn't stand in From of a TV crew defending herself- as she didn't need to,unlike the McCANNS who went straight onto the defensive saying they could see the apartment-checking regularly etc.  The other children were doing normal children things...Out playing with their friends. Not being left alone in a strange countrywith no knowledge of the language in case they got into difficulty...not the same at all. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: John on April 16, 2015, 10:02:09 AM
As happens quite often, courting the media has a sting in the tail or should that be tale?

People tend to forget that the only reason the Press get involved in these events is to pay the mortgage.  I have yet to meet a Press reporter who does what he does out of some sense of moral necessity.

In many cases this need to sell their story tends to influence the story itself or at least the way in which it is reported.  Bad news, someone's misfortune and sensationalism will always sell more newspapers so will attract a larger fee...a fact of life unfortunately.  The lies printed by the Daily Star namely, "Maddie found in Ireland" and "Maddie found in Greece" being classic examples.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 16, 2015, 10:38:26 AM
The April Jones fund was given charitable status so you are wrong Benice it was a charity. I believe it has now been wound up with the remaining monies given to local causes. But while it was functioning I believe it was used to pay for search teams. Another difference to the Madeleine fund is April's parents were not directors of the fund.

As to Carol 'knowing' Kate McCann I believe she's met her on a few occasions, a bit like saying Teresa May knows Kate McCann just because they've met. I may be wrong but I don't think either Sara Payne or Kerry Needham have met Kate so I'm sure have no more knowledge of Madeleine's disappearance than us.

Re the Fund.  I took that info from BBC news (Wales).   No mention of a charity.

Quote
A fund set up in memory of murdered five-year-old April Jones has given around £80,000 to almost two dozen local charities and groups.

The fund was formed just days after April disappeared while playing near her home in Machynlleth, Powys, on 1 October, 2012.

Her former school is among 23 beneficiaries of the donations from around the world.
End quote.

No mention of paying for search teams.  Could you provide a cite?

You can  attempt to play down how well the mothers of other abducted children know the McCanns as much as you like.    The fact is that they all believe and support the McCanns.   If there is evidence to the contrary - I would like to know what it is.     I've never seen any.

The idea that they don't know the McCanns any better than the rest of us is pure 'wishful thinking' on your part  IMO Faith.


Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: jassi on April 16, 2015, 10:48:52 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-21173293

also - The official April Jones Fund was established by Machynlleth Town Council, and more recently, a Charitable Trust  - independent of April's family but run in accordance with their wishes.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/april-jones-fund-benefit-local-2548092

http://www.countytimes.co.uk/news/117460/missing-april-jones-fund-to-be-registered-as-a-charity.aspx
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 16, 2015, 11:03:15 AM
also - The official April Jones Fund was established by Machynlleth Town Council, and more recently, a Charitable Trust  - independent of April's family but run in accordance with their wishes.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/april-jones-fund-benefit-local-2548092

I'm not disputing the fact that it eventually changed to a Charitable Trust - but it did start as a Fund as far as I can see.

IIRC it is not possible to set up a charity in one persons's name.   I presume this also applied in April's case.

I notice that one of the 'conditions' is that it was run in accordance with the family's wishes - so the fact that they were not 'officials' of the charity makes little difference IMO. 

The major difference is that Aprils's case was solved and so the Jones family were able to wind up the charity.
If Madeleine's case is ever solved, then no doubt the McCanns will be doing the same.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: jassi on April 16, 2015, 11:11:00 AM
I'm not disputing the fact that it eventually changed to a Charitable Trust - but it did start as a Fund as far as I can see.

IIRC it is not possible to set up a charity in one persons's name.   I presume this also applied in April's case.

I notice that one of the 'conditions' is that it was run in accordance with the family's wishes - so the fact that they were not 'officials' of the charity makes little difference IMO. 

The major difference is that Aprils's case was solved and so the Jones family were able to wind up the charity.
If Madeleine's case is ever solved, then no doubt the McCanns will be doing the same.

Not what you said -

Re the Fund.  I took that info from BBC news (Wales).  No mention of a charity.

Quote
A fund set up in memory of murdered five-year-old April Jones has given around £80,000 to almost two dozen local charities and groups.

The fund was formed just days after April disappeared while playing near her home in Machynlleth, Powys, on 1 October, 2012.

Her former school is among 23 beneficiaries of the donations from around the world.
End quote.

No mention of paying for search teams.  Could you provide a cite?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 11:18:38 AM
Re the Fund.  I took that info from BBC news (Wales).   No mention of a charity.

Quote
A fund set up in memory of murdered five-year-old April Jones has given around £80,000 to almost two dozen local charities and groups.

The fund was formed just days after April disappeared while playing near her home in Machynlleth, Powys, on 1 October, 2012.

Her former school is among 23 beneficiaries of the donations from around the world.
End quote.

No mention of paying for search teams.  Could you provide a cite?

You can  attempt to play down how well the mothers of other abducted children know the McCanns as much as you like.    The fact is that they all believe and support the McCanns.   If there is evidence to the contrary - I would like to know what it is.     I've never seen any.

The idea that they don't know the McCanns any better than the rest of us is pure 'wishful thinking' on your part  IMO Faith.

http://www.countytimes.co.uk/news/117460/missing-april-jones-fund-to-be-registered-as-a-charity.aspx

As to the Neddhams, Sara Payne and April's family having any more idea what the McCanns are really like or indeed the veracity of their abduction tale than you or I perhaps you'd tell us how ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 16, 2015, 11:29:12 AM
Not what you said -

Re the Fund.  I took that info from BBC news (Wales).  No mention of a charity.

Quote
A fund set up in memory of murdered five-year-old April Jones has given around £80,000 to almost two dozen local charities and groups.

The fund was formed just days after April disappeared while playing near her home in Machynlleth, Powys, on 1 October, 2012.

Her former school is among 23 beneficiaries of the donations from around the world.
End quote.

No mention of paying for search teams.  Could you provide a cite?

But there is no mention of a charity in that cite I gave you.  It's described as a fund.  I've now been made aware that charitable status was acquired at some later date - which I have accepted.

I can't see what your problem is Faith?   

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 11:40:50 AM
But there is no mention of a charity in that cite I gave you.  It's described as a fund.  I've now been made aware that charitable status was acquired at some later date - which I have accepted.

I can't see what your problem is Faith?

You were replying to a post by jassi. Not sure where I became involved.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 16, 2015, 11:41:39 AM
You were replying to a post by jassi. Not sure where I became involved.

Sorry Faith my mistake.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 11:52:12 AM
Sorry Faith my mistake.

Not the first one this morning Benice.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 16, 2015, 11:59:39 AM
http://www.countytimes.co.uk/news/117460/missing-april-jones-fund-to-be-registered-as-a-charity.aspx

As to the Neddhams, Sara Payne and April's family having any more idea what the McCanns are really like or indeed the veracity of their abduction tale than you or I perhaps you'd tell us how ?


As far as I know all  the above have been in contact with the McCanns - to what extent we don't know - except that as Coral Jones and Kate joined forces to launch the Child Rescue Alert System - imo that would involve spending quite a lot of time together.

As the obvious experts on the subject of child abduction - from the parents perspective  -  and having observed the McCanns for 8 years, it would appear that none of them have come to the same conclusions as sceptics have.    I would have thought no-one would be better qualified to spot a fake than those parents.

Pure speculation on my part, but I suspect that publicising contact with the McCanns would be avoided by other mothers of abducted children - due to the load of abuse they would inevitably be subjecting themselves to from those conducting a venomous h.a.t.e campaign against the McCanns.


Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 16, 2015, 12:11:26 PM
Not the first one this morning Benice.

Do please fill me in Faith.     Although I must go out now - so will have to wait to see what they are.

How far up the scale of the  'seriousness of mistakes'   does mistaking a reply from one poster as being a reply from another poster stand?

Shall I prepare myself for sackcloth and ashes?

(Now I really must go.    Have a pleasant day)





Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2015, 12:40:42 PM
Carol meets Kate.....Good coverage for both parents IMO


Madeleine McCann's mum Kate and April Jones' mum Coral launch Child Rescue Alert
Kate McCann and Coral Jones urge the public to sign up to the new text and email system
By Keith Kendrick May 21, 2014
Updated: August 19, 2014 4:39 PM

8sharesfacebooktwittergoogle+pinterestemail

(http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/bfaa6116ea88041980ebde6f1506a888/200143495/9900342-1.jpg)

PA
Madeleine McCann's mum Kate and Coral Jones, the mum of murdered five-year-old April, have joined forces to help endangered children.

Coral, 44, appealed to the public to sign up to the Child Rescue Alert text and email system as the two mums met for the first time.

It will send out an alert when a child has been taken or is believed to be in peril.

Coral - whose daughter April was murdered by paedophile Mark Bridger in Wales in 2012 - said: "I want us to work together to make a difference."

Speaking at London's St Pancras train station, she added: "I really hope something positive can come of this."

Kate, 46, said: "There is now something we can all do to help."

Her daughter, Madeleine, disappeared from a resort in Portugal in 2007 aged three.

For more information on Child Rescue Alert, visit Childrescuealert.org.uk.

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2014/05/21/madeleine-mccanns-mum-kate-and-april-jones-mum-coral-launch-child-rescue-alert/#!slide=aol_1003675
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 12:55:41 PM

As far as I know all  the above have been in contact with the McCanns - to what extent we don't know - except that as Coral Jones and Kate joined forces to launch the Child Rescue Alert System - imo that would involve spending quite a lot of time together.

As the obvious experts on the subject of child abduction - from the parents perspective  -  and having observed the McCanns for 8 years, it would appear that none of them have come to the same conclusions as sceptics have.    I would have thought no-one would be better qualified to spot a fake than those parents.

Pure speculation on my part, but I suspect that publicising contact with the McCanns would be avoided by other mothers of abducted children - due to the load of abuse they would inevitably be subjecting themselves to from those conducting a venomous h.a.t.e campaign against the McCanns.

Be honest neither you nor I have any idea how much contact any of the parents mentioned have had with the McCanns although a meeting between Kerry and Kate was turned down by Kate several years ago. As to April's mums contact with Kate it is entirely possible they only met for the photo shoot.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2015, 01:08:48 PM
I’m Kate McCann’s worst nightmare. She’s had 6 years of hell. I’ve had 22. It must have been hard meeting me
Says KERRY NEEDHAM, whose son Ben is missing

Suffering ... Kerry Needham has spent 22 years searching for her missing son Ben Ross Parry
By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
published
2 years ago
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/real_life/4913188/kerry-needham-on-meeting-kate-mccann.html

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 01:17:20 PM
I’m Kate McCann’s worst nightmare. She’s had 6 years of hell. I’ve had 22. It must have been hard meeting me
Says KERRY NEEDHAM, whose son Ben is missing

Suffering ... Kerry Needham has spent 22 years searching for her missing son Ben Ross Parry
By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
published
2 years ago
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/real_life/4913188/kerry-needham-on-meeting-kate-mccann.html

Thank you Anna. I know Kate initially turned down the chance to meet Kerry. Do you have the rest of the article ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2015, 01:19:59 PM
Thank you Anna. I know Kate initially turned down the chance to meet Kerry. Do you have the rest of the article ?

I'm afraid that is all that was on it, Faith, as the link, but I will have a look and see what I can find.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 01:22:20 PM
I'm afraid that is all that was on it, Faith, as the link, but I will have a look and see what I can find.

Thank you Anna.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2015, 01:28:49 PM
Thank you Anna.

You are welcome Faith, Not an arranged meeting, I don't think, but they met.

here you go:-



THEY are the mothers in two of the highest-profile child abductions ever.

But when Kerry Needham came face to face with Kate McCann she was lost for words.

Kerry says: “What possible words of comfort could I ever offer her?

“Could I say it gets any better? No. What advice could I give her? What could I tell her to do that she hasn’t done already?

“Meeting me must have been very difficult for Kate — she has had six years of hell, I’ve had 22.

“I must be her worst nightmare because I prove her situation could go on for years.

“The only thing I could say is to never stop searching and never give up. I haven’t, and I won’t.”

Kerry’s 21-month-old son Ben was snatched on July 24, 1991, as he played in fields outside a farmhouse his grandfather was renovating on the island of Kos, Greece.

Kerry, then a young mum aged 19, was at work in a local bar.

Despite a huge global manhunt, Ben has never been found. He would now be 23.

Kerry met Kate — whose three-year-old daughter Madeleine was abducted from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal on May 3, 2007 — at a Downing Street reception to mark International Missing Children’s Day.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic19997.html
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 16, 2015, 01:36:19 PM
'Wonder' no more -  AFAIK they didn't go  jogging - but Paul Jones did find it helped to go for long walks up the surrounding hills a lot.  I suppose as long as he never broke into a jog - that's OK with you?   

Why would they want to meet the Pope - they weren't Catholics?

Also - if we are making comparisons  - it would appear that April's parents did not spend the whole night out and about searching for their daughter on the day she was abducted.   Nor did they join in with the following searches.    An unforgiveable sin apparently.
 
They also set up a fund - not a charity.

Like Kate - Coral has also said she will always carry the guilt of knowing that she allowed her little girl to  be in a situation where an abductor was able to take her.

Unlike the rest of us  - Coral Jones actually knows Kate McCann - and believes and supports her - along with other parents of abducted children - like Sara Payne and Kerry Needham.

I often wonder how 'sceptics' square that extremely inconvenient fact with their own completely opposite beliefs?

 

It is not inconvenient so wonder no more. It makes not one jot of difference to my thoughts whether they were best mates or sworn enemies and what was a charity and what wasn't. Some might it find it fun to argue about I suppose but in the general scheme of things 'tis largely irrelevant. IMHO of course
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: DCI on April 16, 2015, 02:01:55 PM
Here you are, Anna.

I’m Kate McCann’s worst nightmare. She’s had 6 years of hell. I’ve had 22. It must have been hard meeting meSays KERRY NEEDHAM, whose son Ben is missing


THEY are the mothers in two of the highest-profile child abductions ever.

But when Kerry Needham came face to face with Kate McCann she was lost for words.

Kerry says: “What possible words of comfort could I ever offer her?

“Could I say it gets any better? No. What advice could I give her? What could I tell her to do that she hasn’t done already?

“Meeting me must have been very difficult for Kate — she has had six years of hell, I’ve had 22.

“I must be her worst nightmare because I prove her situation could go on for years.

“The only thing I could say is to never stop searching and never give up. I haven’t, and I won’t.”

Kerry’s 21-month-old son Ben was snatched on July 24, 1991, as he played in fields outside a farmhouse his grandfather was renovating on the island of Kos, Greece.

Kerry, then a young mum aged 19, was at work in a local bar.

Despite a huge global manhunt, Ben has never been found. He would now be 23.

Kerry met Kate — whose three-year-old daughter Madeleine was abducted from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal on May 3, 2007 — at a Downing Street reception to mark International Missing Children’s Day.

Next week a book, called simply Ben, detailing Kerry’s heartbreaking search for her son and the effect it has had on her family will be published.

Kerry says she has wanted to write a book for years, but adds bitterly: “When we approached publishers, they didn’t want to know because they said there was no ending.”

In the flesh, Kerry is much prettier and younger-looking than pictures portray her.

Gone is the short-haired teenager who was photographed looked bewildered after Ben went missing.

Now she is a middle-aged mum desperate for a happy ending that never comes.

Speaking at her home in Sheffield, Kerry says: “Not knowing destroys you, it’s a never-ending nightmare. But if I knew, I could cope.

“If Ben was alive but didn’t want to know me, I would have to deal with that — just as long as I knew. He could be married with kids and may not remember me at all.

“I’ve rehearsed what I would say if I saw someone I thought could be him.

“I wouldn’t say, ‘Hi, I think I’m your mum’, because I fear that could frighten him off.

“Instead I would say, ‘I think I know someone who knows you’, then try to get as much info as possible.

“My theory is that Ben was taken to be sold for adoption.

“Child trafficking is a huge issue — it happens an awful lot more than people realise.”

Kerry is also realistic enough to know that Ben may not be alive.

She says: “All I’ve ever wished for is an ending and if that was the case, at least that is an ending. But I’m still full of hope.”

Kerry believes she will find Ben one day because she has “an overwhelming feeling he is still alive”.

She says: “I just feel it... call it a mother’s instinct, whatever.

“I believe that if Ben was dead, a part of me would know and this driving feeling to search would stop.

“But it never goes. Every day I wake up and think, ‘Right, what next? What can we do now?’ ”

Kerry and her family — particularly her daughter Leighanna — have paid a high price for that search. In her book, Kerry reveals that five years after Ben went missing she embarked on a drink and drugs binge that lasted four months.

During that time she left Leighanna — only a toddler then — with her parents.

Kerry cringes at the memory, admitting: “I know, how could I? How could someone who had lost their first child then leave their second?

“But I truly believe if I hadn’t done that, I wouldn’t be here now — I was ripping myself apart.

“I had tried suicide several times and had a recurring dream where I would find Ben with strangers, grab him and run, run, run through the streets of Kos.

“Then I got to a police station and I was begging them to believe the baby was Ben but they wouldn’t.

“They demanded I give the baby back — then I would wake up.

“When we moved back from Kos, I did Ben’s room up with Winnie the Pooh wallpaper and began to hear a baby cry.

“Over and over again I would hear Ben crying. I would often wake up lying on his bed and not remember how I got there.

“No one deserves to live like that — I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.”

Kerry also had to deal with the attention Ben’s abduction brought.

She says: “Everywhere I went, people would point and stare.

“People came up to me in the street and one woman even said, ‘You’re Ben Needham’s mum. I don’t know how you’re still here’.

“That made me feel terrible — as if I should have killed myself.

“I was riddled with guilt for leaving Ben, for not being able to find him... I lost myself.

“Then, when I was 24, I started working at a nightclub. For the first time in years, I was just Kerry — not Ben Needham’s mum.

“People didn’t treat me differently, they didn’t look at me with pity, they weren’t judging me... I started partying after work and taking amphetamines. Drink and drugs helped with the horrible, crushing pain that never went away. I’m not proud of it, but I believe that, in a way, it saved me.”

Kerry finally came to her senses when Ben and Leighanna’s father, Simon Ward, rang to tell her his dad had just died.

She says: “I thought, ‘What am I doing? I have a daughter’.

“I went to my parents’ house and Leighanna ran up to me, saying, ‘Mummy, Mummy’.

“She literally saved me. I had something to live for, something to get up for, someone to make me feel like I WAS a good mother.”

Sitting listening to her mum talk is Leighanna, a pretty, blonde girl who looks remarkably like Ben.

Now 20, she reveals that, at times, growing up in Ben’s shadow has been difficult.

Leighanna says: “I didn’t have any freedom, as you can imagine. Mum wouldn’t let me out of her sight.

“I just wanted to be a normal teenager but I couldn’t, I always had to come straight home at 6pm.

“I understood, of course I did, but at times it felt oppressive.

“Even now, if I go out I have to text Mum several times saying who I am with and where I am.

“But I don’t mind because I know that if I don’t, she will be going out of her mind at home.”

There are lots of photos of Ben dotted around Kerry’s home.

Leighanna looks at one and smiles, saying: “It’s strange, but I have always felt like his older sister because the only images of him I know are of him as a baby.”

Leighanna, a trainee accountant, now helps her mum with the ongoing search for Ben, using social media to spread the word about her brother.

She says: “I’ve known about Ben since I was tiny.

“When I started going for job interviews, they sometimes asked, ‘Do you have any brothers and sisters?’ And of course I had to say, ‘Well...’

“It’s little things like that that make you realise what a strange situation we are in.”

Kerry looks at her daughter with a mixture of pride and sadness.

She says: “I don’t want to grow old like this, never knowing. It kills you.

“I hope there is an ending soon as I don’t want Leighanna to have to live with this for another 20 years.

“I want her and me to have some sort of normal family life — the life we’ve never had.”

Ben, by Kerry Needham, will be published by Ebury Press on May 9, £16.99. Also available as an ebook.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4913188/kerry-needham-on-meeting-kate-mccann.html
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2015, 02:17:16 PM
Here you are, Anna.

I’m Kate McCann’s worst nightmare. She’s had 6 years of hell. I’ve had 22. It must have been hard meeting meSays KERRY NEEDHAM, whose son Ben is missing


THEY are the mothers in two of the highest-profile child abductions ever.

But when Kerry Needham came face to face with Kate McCann she was lost for words.

Kerry says: “What possible words of comfort could I ever offer her?

“Could I say it gets any better? No. What advice could I give her? What could I tell her to do that she hasn’t done already?

“Meeting me must have been very difficult for Kate — she has had six years of hell, I’ve had 22.

“I must be her worst nightmare because I prove her situation could go on for years.

“The only thing I could say is to never stop searching and never give up. I haven’t, and I won’t.”

Kerry’s 21-month-old son Ben was snatched on July 24, 1991, as he played in fields outside a farmhouse his grandfather was renovating on the island of Kos, Greece.

Kerry, then a young mum aged 19, was at work in a local bar.

Despite a huge global manhunt, Ben has never been found. He would now be 23.

Kerry met Kate — whose three-year-old daughter Madeleine was abducted from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal on May 3, 2007 — at a Downing Street reception to mark International Missing Children’s Day.

Next week a book, called simply Ben, detailing Kerry’s heartbreaking search for her son and the effect it has had on her family will be published.

Kerry says she has wanted to write a book for years, but adds bitterly: “When we approached publishers, they didn’t want to know because they said there was no ending.”

In the flesh, Kerry is much prettier and younger-looking than pictures portray her.

Gone is the short-haired teenager who was photographed looked bewildered after Ben went missing.

Now she is a middle-aged mum desperate for a happy ending that never comes.

Speaking at her home in Sheffield, Kerry says: “Not knowing destroys you, it’s a never-ending nightmare. But if I knew, I could cope.

“If Ben was alive but didn’t want to know me, I would have to deal with that — just as long as I knew. He could be married with kids and may not remember me at all.

“I’ve rehearsed what I would say if I saw someone I thought could be him.

“I wouldn’t say, ‘Hi, I think I’m your mum’, because I fear that could frighten him off.

“Instead I would say, ‘I think I know someone who knows you’, then try to get as much info as possible.

“My theory is that Ben was taken to be sold for adoption.

“Child trafficking is a huge issue — it happens an awful lot more than people realise.”

Kerry is also realistic enough to know that Ben may not be alive.

She says: “All I’ve ever wished for is an ending and if that was the case, at least that is an ending. But I’m still full of hope.”

Kerry believes she will find Ben one day because she has “an overwhelming feeling he is still alive”.

She says: “I just feel it... call it a mother’s instinct, whatever.

“I believe that if Ben was dead, a part of me would know and this driving feeling to search would stop.

“But it never goes. Every day I wake up and think, ‘Right, what next? What can we do now?’ ”

Kerry and her family — particularly her daughter Leighanna — have paid a high price for that search. In her book, Kerry reveals that five years after Ben went missing she embarked on a drink and drugs binge that lasted four months.

During that time she left Leighanna — only a toddler then — with her parents.

Kerry cringes at the memory, admitting: “I know, how could I? How could someone who had lost their first child then leave their second?

“But I truly believe if I hadn’t done that, I wouldn’t be here now — I was ripping myself apart.

“I had tried suicide several times and had a recurring dream where I would find Ben with strangers, grab him and run, run, run through the streets of Kos.

“Then I got to a police station and I was begging them to believe the baby was Ben but they wouldn’t.

“They demanded I give the baby back — then I would wake up.

“When we moved back from Kos, I did Ben’s room up with Winnie the Pooh wallpaper and began to hear a baby cry.

“Over and over again I would hear Ben crying. I would often wake up lying on his bed and not remember how I got there.

“No one deserves to live like that — I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.”

Kerry also had to deal with the attention Ben’s abduction brought.

She says: “Everywhere I went, people would point and stare.

“People came up to me in the street and one woman even said, ‘You’re Ben Needham’s mum. I don’t know how you’re still here’.

“That made me feel terrible — as if I should have killed myself.

“I was riddled with guilt for leaving Ben, for not being able to find him... I lost myself.

“Then, when I was 24, I started working at a nightclub. For the first time in years, I was just Kerry — not Ben Needham’s mum.

“People didn’t treat me differently, they didn’t look at me with pity, they weren’t judging me... I started partying after work and taking amphetamines. Drink and drugs helped with the horrible, crushing pain that never went away. I’m not proud of it, but I believe that, in a way, it saved me.”

Kerry finally came to her senses when Ben and Leighanna’s father, Simon Ward, rang to tell her his dad had just died.

She says: “I thought, ‘What am I doing? I have a daughter’.

“I went to my parents’ house and Leighanna ran up to me, saying, ‘Mummy, Mummy’.

“She literally saved me. I had something to live for, something to get up for, someone to make me feel like I WAS a good mother.”

Sitting listening to her mum talk is Leighanna, a pretty, blonde girl who looks remarkably like Ben.

Now 20, she reveals that, at times, growing up in Ben’s shadow has been difficult.

Leighanna says: “I didn’t have any freedom, as you can imagine. Mum wouldn’t let me out of her sight.

“I just wanted to be a normal teenager but I couldn’t, I always had to come straight home at 6pm.

“I understood, of course I did, but at times it felt oppressive.

“Even now, if I go out I have to text Mum several times saying who I am with and where I am.

“But I don’t mind because I know that if I don’t, she will be going out of her mind at home.”

There are lots of photos of Ben dotted around Kerry’s home.

Leighanna looks at one and smiles, saying: “It’s strange, but I have always felt like his older sister because the only images of him I know are of him as a baby.”

Leighanna, a trainee accountant, now helps her mum with the ongoing search for Ben, using social media to spread the word about her brother.

She says: “I’ve known about Ben since I was tiny.

“When I started going for job interviews, they sometimes asked, ‘Do you have any brothers and sisters?’ And of course I had to say, ‘Well...’

“It’s little things like that that make you realise what a strange situation we are in.”

Kerry looks at her daughter with a mixture of pride and sadness.

She says: “I don’t want to grow old like this, never knowing. It kills you.

“I hope there is an ending soon as I don’t want Leighanna to have to live with this for another 20 years.

“I want her and me to have some sort of normal family life — the life we’ve never had.”

Ben, by Kerry Needham, will be published by Ebury Press on May 9, £16.99. Also available as an ebook.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4913188/kerry-needham-on-meeting-kate-mccann.html

Thank you DCI, That poor woman was so distraught, that she left her other young child and turned to drugs. I didn't know that.

Lets hope she has now learnt to live with the pain of losing her child. What else can the mother of a missing child do in the end, without going crazy.

I often wonder if they knew that their child was no longer alive, would it bring closure and allow them to eventually heal?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: DCI on April 16, 2015, 02:20:07 PM
Thank you Anna. I know Kate initially turned down the chance to meet Kerry. Do you have the rest of the article ?

Yes in January 2008. Her reason given by Kerry.

In January 2008 Kerry was contacted by a television director, who was making a documentary about the McCanns. As Kerry remembers it, she was asked if she would like to meet Kate McCann; she said yes, as long as there were no cameras, no reporters, that they could meet as one bereft mother with another. But the meeting never took place. When I spoke to Clarence Mitchell in November 2008, he said that the film director hadn't asked Kerry if she wanted to meet Kate McCann, but whether she would appear in the documentary as the mother of a lost child. "Kate finds the idea of meeting a parent in that position quite daunting," he told me then.

"[Kerry] has been living with it for 18 years and the idea of facing it as long and stoically as Kerry has is a bit daunting. It's not that she doesn't want to meet her, she's sure she's a lovely person and maybe one day she will feel like it. But she doesn't want to face a lifetime without finding Madeleine."

So when a letter arrived out of the blue on 24 January from Kate McCann, Kerry was amazed.

"I thought it was sweet of her. I didn't think she'd ever get in contact with me. I was really moved, it's a really heartfelt letter. She'd wanted to be in touch with me, but had been scared of having to admit that Madeleine's disappearance might end up like Ben's. Nobody wants to think a child could be missing for years and years. If the boot had been on the other foot I wouldn't have wanted to get in touch with somebody whose child had been missing for all these years because it would give you no hope. You'd think, is that me in 18 years?"
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2015, 03:44:10 PM
So no arranged meeting between Kerry and Kate just a few snatched minutes at a Downing Street reception which they both attended. How can you gauge anything really based on a few scant words ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2015, 07:59:52 PM

Please adhere to the topic of the thread. Thank you.

Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage -  Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2015, 09:04:27 PM
As happens quite often, courting the media has a sting in the tail or should that be tale?

People tend to forget that the only reason the Press get involved in these events is to pay the mortgage.  I have yet to meet a Press reporter who does what he does out of some sense of moral necessity.

In many cases this need to sell their story tends to influence the story itself or at least the way in which it is reported.  Bad news, someone's misfortune and sensationalism will always sell more newspapers so will attract a larger fee...a fact of life unfortunately.  The lies printed by the Daily Star namely, "Maddie found in Ireland" and "Maddie found in Greece" being classic examples.

I totally agree, John.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 16, 2015, 09:43:11 PM
Cop out.

You can know someone for years and still not know who they really are. How many women say: "I had no idea that my husband was a serial killer".
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 16, 2015, 10:16:10 PM

Off Topic Posts will be deleted.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 18, 2015, 02:33:41 AM
The press in the uk are about 90% behund the Mccann family and always have been. Some reported some stories frm abroad which were not favourable, but all in all it has been a positive press over the years.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Carana on April 18, 2015, 08:54:51 AM
The press in the uk are about 90% behund the Mccann family and always have been. Some reported some stories frm abroad which were not favourable, but all in all it has been a positive press over the years.

I think you'll find Leveson disagrees with you on that one...
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 18, 2015, 08:55:45 AM
The press in the uk are about 90% behund the Mccann family and always have been. Some reported some stories frm abroad which were not favourable, but all in all it has been a positive press over the years.

I can only presume that you are not familiar with the Leveson Enquiry.

Quote from Leveson report.

 In his submissions opening Module One of the Inquiry, David Sherborne, Counsel for the Core Participant Victims, described the press treatment of the McCanns as a 'national scandal': not merely had they suffered the personal tragedy of the abduction of their daughter, they were subjected to a barrage of press reporting which could only be fairly characterised as a diatribe. Clearly, therefore, it is appropriate to take the experience of the McCanns as a 'case study' warranting further examination for the light it throws on the culture, practices and ethics of the press. Their case is also highly illuminating in the context of the action, or rather the inaction, of the PCC.
unquote
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 09:04:35 AM
I can only presume that you are not familiar with the Leveson Enquiry.

Quote from Leveson report.

 In his submissions opening Module One of the Inquiry, David Sherborne, Counsel for the Core Participant Victims, described the press treatment of the McCanns as a 'national scandal': not merely had they suffered the personal tragedy of the abduction of their daughter, they were subjected to a barrage of press reporting which could only be fairly characterised as a diatribe. Clearly, therefore, it is appropriate to take the experience of the McCanns as a 'case study' warranting further examination for the light it throws on the culture, practices and ethics of the press. Their case is also highly illuminating in the context of the action, or rather the inaction, of the PCC.
unquote

Leverson.

Cowing down to the mccanns.

I wonder if Leverson would like to provide the evidence of abduction ?


Meanwhile benice, can you remind me of any press conference or media opportunity in this country when the mccanns were questioned as to their version of events, and not heralded/controlled by thge media manipulator himself, Mitchell ?


Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 09:24:15 AM
Leverson.

Cowing down to the mccanns.

I wonder if Leverson would like to provide the evidence of abduction ?


Meanwhile benice, can you remind me of any press conference or media opportunity in this country when the mccanns were questioned as to their version of events, and not heralded/controlled by thge media manipulator himself, Mitchell ?

Actually, Stephen ... the Drs McCann are not the story.  Madeleine is.

Now that at long last Madeleine McCann's disappearance is being investigated by two professional policing bodies, you will note that the Drs McCann have become almost invisible.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: jassi on April 18, 2015, 09:28:07 AM
Actually, Stephen ... the Drs McCann are not the story.  Madeleine is.

Now that at long last Madeleine McCann's disappearance is being investigated by two professional policing bodies, you will note that the Drs McCann have become almost invisible.


And long may it remain so. 8((()*/
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 18, 2015, 09:29:14 AM
Leverson.

Cowing down to the mccanns.


I wonder if Leverson would like to provide the evidence of abduction ?


Meanwhile benice, can you remind me of any press conference or media opportunity in this country when the mccanns were questioned as to their version of events, and not heralded/controlled by thge media manipulator himself, Mitchell ?


LOL - so you think Lord Justice Leveson and the legal team representing all of the victims of the press - are also part of some massive conspiracy - where everyone has to do what the McCanns tell them to do.

Hilarious!
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 09:35:33 AM

LOL - so you think Lord Justice Leveson and the legal team representing all of the victims of the press - are also part of some massive conspiracy - where everyone has to do what the McCanns tell them to do.

Hilarious!

Hardly hilarious.

Levers on showed his limitations by believing the mccanns with no evidence to back it up.

Now remind me when any press conference or media event in the last years in this country, when the mccanns accounts of events were questioned ?

Something tells me I will have a long wait. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 09:36:46 AM
Actually, Stephen ... the Drs McCann are not the story.  Madeleine is.

Now that at long last Madeleine McCann's disappearance is being investigated by two professional policing bodies, you will note that the Drs McCann have become almost invisible.
Really.

Can you remind me of how much mccann talks about herself in the book compared to Madelerine  ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 18, 2015, 09:48:59 AM
Hardly hilarious.

Levers on showed his limitations by believing the mccanns with no evidence to back it up.

Now remind me when any press conference or media event in the last years in this country, when the mccanns accounts of events were questioned ?

Something tells me I will have a long wait. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#

At least you've got that right.  I shan't be replying because:

1. You consistently refuse to answer any of my questions

and

2. I'm too busy laughing at your belief that Lord Justice Leveson was 'cowing down' to the McCanns.


Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 18, 2015, 09:58:27 AM
At least you've got that right.  I shan't be replying because:

1. You consistently refuse to answer any of my questions

and

2. I'm too busy laughing at your belief that Lord Justice Leveson was 'cowing down' to the McCanns.

Of course, Leveson cowed down to the McCanns. No serious questions were asked of them and the conclusions were already decided long before the inquiry ended. Sloppy work by all involved.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 10:00:07 AM
Really.

Can you remind me of how much mccann talks about herself in the book compared to Madelerine  ?

Are you still a believer in the early press stories  such as ...

Daily Express ~ 'McCANNS ARE LYING'
Sunday Express ~ McCANNS 'ARE HIDING A BIG SECRET'
Daily Mirror ~ McCANN FRIENDS 'CHANGE THEIR STORY'
Daily Express ~ 'SYRINGE FOUND IN MADELEINE'S APARTMENT'
Evening Standard ~ 'CORPSE IN McCANN CAR'
Daily Express ~ Madeleine  DNA PUTS PARENTS IN THE FRAME

If like the rest of the world you have discounted the lies churned out by a 'source close to the investigation' and replicated in the British press for home consumption ... do you have an explanation for your extraordinary antipathy towards Madeleine McCann's parents.

They have worked how unwise it was to leave the children in the apartment ... so you must be basing your opinion on something which has really annoyed you for eight years ... the way Gerry pulls his ear, or the press coverage?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 10:01:32 AM
At least you've got that right.  I shan't be replying because:

1. You consistently refuse to answer any of my questions

and

2. I'm too busy laughing at your belief that Lord Justice Leveson was 'cowing down' to the McCanns.

No, the real reason is you can't answer the questions.

I don't' refuse to answer your questions benice.

However, what is extremely is your pathetic excuse not to respond to the truth. 8(0(*
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 10:03:36 AM
Of course, Leveson cowed down to the McCanns. No serious questions were asked of them and the conclusions were already decided long before the inquiry ended. Sloppy work by all involved.


Hmmm ... another one to add to the list ...  £4%4£ ... Leveson was innit too. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 18, 2015, 10:15:39 AM

Hmmm ... another one to add to the list ...  £4%4£ ... Leveson was innit too.

Leveson was not "innit". He just didn't care enough to carry out a proper inquiry and look into the complaints made by the McCanns.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 10:25:05 AM

Hmmm ... another one to add to the list ...  £4%4£ ... Leveson was innit too.

Leverson showed his naivety by believing the fairy tale of the mccanns.

Do you like fairy tales too ? 8)--))

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 18, 2015, 10:28:59 AM
Are you still a believer in the early press stories  such as ...

Daily Express ~ 'McCANNS ARE LYING'
Sunday Express ~ McCANNS 'ARE HIDING A BIG SECRET'
Daily Mirror ~ McCANN FRIENDS 'CHANGE THEIR STORY'
Daily Express ~ 'SYRINGE FOUND IN MADELEINE'S APARTMENT'
Evening Standard ~ 'CORPSE IN McCANN CAR'
Daily Express ~ Madeleine  DNA PUTS PARENTS IN THE FRAME

If like the rest of the world you have discounted the lies churned out by a 'source close to the investigation' and replicated in the British press for home consumption ... do you have an explanation for your extraordinary antipathy towards Madeleine McCann's parents.

They have worked how unwise it was to leave the children in the apartment ... so you must be basing your opinion on something which has really annoyed you for eight years ... the way Gerry pulls his ear, or the press coverage?

These headlines were not lies! They presented the information from the investigation, although the headlines, as in most of the press, were dramatic and were confirmed by the police files when they were released.

1.The police believed and most probably still believe that the McCanns were lying from the beginning.
2.I believe that the headline about the parents "hiding a big secret" was the opinion of a former policeman, speaking from experience.
3.I don't see how an article about the friends changing their story reflects badly on the parents.
4.As for the syringe, I have no idea what that was about.
5. Corpse in car and DNA story came from the investigation.

The problem was that the McCanns did not want any kind of information about the investigation that showed them in a bad light to come out and that is why they sued all and sundry. Of course, the British press caved in because of the libel laws at the time, it was much easier just to settle out of court.

Unfortunately, for the parents, they did not realise that the police files would be made public, in accordance with the law, and they believed that they would be the only ones with access.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: John on April 18, 2015, 10:29:38 AM
Of course, Leveson cowed down to the McCanns. No serious questions were asked of them and the conclusions were already decided long before the inquiry ended. Sloppy work by all involved.

The Leveson Inquiry was a sham, just as the failed prosecution of journalists involved in payments to public officials was.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 10:37:58 AM
Are you still a believer in the early press stories  such as ...

Daily Express ~ 'McCANNS ARE LYING'
Sunday Express ~ McCANNS 'ARE HIDING A BIG SECRET'
Daily Mirror ~ McCANN FRIENDS 'CHANGE THEIR STORY'
Daily Express ~ 'SYRINGE FOUND IN MADELEINE'S APARTMENT'
Evening Standard ~ 'CORPSE IN McCANN CAR'
Daily Express ~ Madeleine  DNA PUTS PARENTS IN THE FRAME

If like the rest of the world you have discounted the lies churned out by a 'source close to the investigation' and replicated in the British press for home consumption ... do you have an explanation for your extraordinary antipathy towards Madeleine McCann's parents.

They have worked how unwise it was to leave the children in the apartment ... so you must be basing your opinion on something which has really annoyed you for eight years ... the way Gerry pulls his ear, or the press coverage?

Read Montclair's response.

Then tell me in the last 6 years  in this country, when the mccanns version of events has been questioned in the press or in news conferences ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 18, 2015, 10:44:18 AM
Of course, Leveson cowed down to the McCanns. No serious questions were asked of them and the conclusions were already decided long before the inquiry ended. Sloppy work by all involved.

You seem to be inferring that the McCanns were on trial.   They were not.   Can you give examples of 'serious questions that were not asked of them'  regarding the appallingly cruel press coverage - the untruthfulness of which has been acknowleldged and apologised for - by the Press themselves.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2015, 10:49:03 AM
Leverson showed his naivety by believing the fairy tale of the mccanns.

Do you like fairy tales too ? 8)--))

The fairy tales began immediately. The McCanns were publicly praising the police, but feeding criticism of them to the media via friends and relatives;

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office said that the alarm had been raised immediately by the girl's parents and that the British Consul in Portimao, Bill Henderson, had gone to the resort to offer what support he could. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/04-05-07-Times-Transcript.htm

The child was missing at 10pm and the police were not called until 10.40pm. What stopped the parents from demanding that the police were called immediately? What stopped any of them from standing over the receptionist and making sure the police were contacted? The first 40 minutes were lost, which was ample time for any abductor to be out of the country.

"We went down to the beach with scores of other people to look for her," said Mr Moyes. "The police arrived at around midnight and by that stage we were already out looking. There were uniformed police, plain clothes and even off duty local officers who joined in.
 
"The search went on all night, people were using torches, and in the morning police sniffer dogs arrived."
 
By 4.30am exhausted holiday makers began drifting away, having found no sign of Madeleine. Back home in Dumbarton, Mrs Cameron spoke to her brother again at 10am yesterday.
 
"It was frustrating for him then because between 5am and 7am the police seemed to do nothing, they were standing about," she said.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/GUARDIAN_05_05_2007.htm

Rather unfair to criticise those who had searched all night while the parents and their friends spent all night phoning people instead, I think.

Meanwhile, Gerry’s sister Philomena slammed Portuguese police for not doing enough to find Madeleine’s faster. 
Speaking from her home in Glasgow she said Gerry was furious with the way the inquiry was being handled. “My brother is at his wits’ end. They’ve just played it down from the minute he first approached them. 
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/Express_06_05_2007.htm

Family pal Gill Renwick revealed how panicking Kate sent her a text saying: “I need help.”
She said: “Kate was at the police station in hysterics. When we spoke she said the police weren’t doing enough.”
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/SUN_06_05_07.htm
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 18, 2015, 10:51:20 AM
The Leveson Inquiry was a sham, just as the failed prosecution of journalists involved in payments to public officials was.

So who instructed this 'sham' to take place and on whose behalf?   Who would this 'sham' benefit?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: John on April 18, 2015, 11:05:13 AM
So who instructed this 'sham' to take place and on whose behalf?   Who would this 'sham' benefit?

The UK Government instructed it to look into Press abuses and criminal activity whilst operating under the guise of a' free Press'.  This 'sham' benefits those criminal journalists who have until now escaped prosecution for their illegal and immoral activities.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 18, 2015, 11:09:05 AM
So who instructed this 'sham' to take place and on whose behalf?   Who would this 'sham' benefit?

It appeared to be serving a purpose whatever that may have been.
What did it achieve though? Has there been any fundamental change in the way the press operates? Has the "watch dog" been set up? Anyway there was no legal obligation on the press to set up or belong to a "watchdog". All we discovered  was what we knew all along; the press can be scurrilous and to an extent above the law. So to be repetitive what has changed since Leveson?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Carana on April 18, 2015, 11:14:48 AM
These headlines were not lies! They presented the information from the investigation, although the headlines, as in most of the press, were dramatic and were confirmed by the police files when they were released.

1.The police believed and most probably still believe that the McCanns were lying from the beginning.
2.I believe that the headline about the parents "hiding a big secret" was the opinion of a former policeman, speaking from experience.
3.I don't see how an article about the friends changing their story reflects badly on the parents.
4.As for the syringe, I have no idea what that was about.
5. Corpse in car and DNA story came from the investigation.

The problem was that the McCanns did not want any kind of information about the investigation that showed them in a bad light to come out and that is why they sued all and sundry. Of course, the British press caved in because of the libel laws at the time, it was much easier just to settle out of court.

Unfortunately, for the parents, they did not realise that the police files would be made public, in accordance with the law, and they believed that they would be the only ones with access.

1. Yes, no doubt the PJ did suspect them from the start. But is it normal professional police strategy to blab to tabloids in they way the did, do you think?

2. "Hiding a big secret" was the opinion of a former UK cop wondering why the T7 were not engaging with the media (aside from JT re Tannerman).  Quite apart from the judicial secrecy laws which he may not have been aware of, he was being a bit naive, IMO, particularly when any word uttered could be distorted in a negative way to provide a sensational headline.

3. "Changing their stories" can be taken to mean that they were about to "spill the beans" against the McCanns. If there is any element of truth in that, it might well have been that they would happily agree to rogatory interviews in which they could provide more detail and correct media smears.

4. The "syringe" story was pure invention. I haven't even found a potential tenuous link to a half-myth on that one.

5. "Corpse in car and 100% DNA" - yes, that did come from a PJ leak. And it turned out to be that the PJ didn't know what they were talking about.

There was also the "Gerry not the father" rubbish splashed all over the papers, and many more.

I have no idea whether the McCanns had been told that the files would be made accessible to the media. I suspect so as a few comments made by some of the T7 tend to make me think that they were aware that what they said could be made public. That said, the files were supposed to be made accessible to the media (i.e. for the perusal of responsible journalists adhering to a code of ethics) - they were not supposed to be splashed unredacted all over the Internet for every Tom, Dick and Harriet.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 11:16:35 AM
These headlines were not lies! They presented the information from the investigation, although the headlines, as in most of the press, were dramatic and were confirmed by the police files when they were released.

1.The police believed and most probably still believe that the McCanns were lying from the beginning.
2.I believe that the headline about the parents "hiding a big secret" was the opinion of a former policeman, speaking from experience.
3.I don't see how an article about the friends changing their story reflects badly on the parents.
4.As for the syringe, I have no idea what that was about.
5. Corpse in car and DNA story came from the investigation.

The problem was that the McCanns did not want any kind of information about the investigation that showed them in a bad light to come out and that is why they sued all and sundry. Of course, the British press caved in because of the libel laws at the time, it was much easier just to settle out of court.

Unfortunately, for the parents, they did not realise that the police files would be made public, in accordance with the law, and they believed that they would be the only ones with access.

There is something disturbing about the mentality of 'Justice Seekers' who pick and mix which laws of the land are applicable to them and not the populace at large.

That you continue believe these outrageous tales, despite evidence to prove the contrary ~ "These headlines were not lies! They presented the information from the investigation, although the headlines, as in most of the press, were dramatic and were confirmed by the police files when they were released." is I find rather worrying although it does explain the inexplicable just a bit.


McCanns welcome papers' apology

Daily Express and Daily Star
The McCanns received a public apology read in open court

McCann spokesman
Madeleine McCann's parents have welcomed a libel settlement and apology from Express Newspapers for suggesting they were responsible for her death.
In a statement the McCanns said they were pleased that the newspaper group had admitted the "utter falsity" of the "grotesque" stories written about them.
The newspaper group has paid £550,000 to the Find Madeleine campaign.

**snip
The Daily Express and Daily Star have issued front-page apologies admitting the stories were inaccurate.

The papers said: "We acknowledge that there is no evidence whatsoever to support this theory and that Kate and Gerry are completely innocent of any involvement in their daughter's disappearance. "

**snip
In court Stephen Bacon, representing the newspapers, said: "Express Newspapers regrets publishing these extremely serious, yet baseless, allegations."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7304556.stm



Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 11:21:39 AM
Read Montclair's response.

Then tell me in the last 6 years  in this country, when the mccanns version of events has been questioned in the press or in news conferences ?

Not for a millisecond did I expect the post directed to you to receive a response ... if you, as you appear to be, are in agreement with Montclair's rather confused and shaky understanding of the libel laws which bind the press as well as everyone else ... why on earth would I care to enter into discussion with either of you?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 11:34:11 AM
Not for a millisecond did I expect the post directed to you to receive a response ... if you, as you appear to be, are in agreement with Montclair's rather confused and shaky understanding of the libel laws which bind the press as well as everyone else ... why on earth would I care to enter into discussion with either of you?

Your 'reasoned' approach is to back the mccanns 100%.

Regardless of the fact that the persons responsible for Madeleine's disappearance have yet to be determined.

All you clearly show, is BLIND FAITH and nothing more, and every action you undertake on here, reflects that fact.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 11:43:49 AM
1. Yes, no doubt the PJ did suspect them from the start. But is it normal professional police strategy to blab to tabloids in they way the did, do you think?

2. "Hiding a big secret" was the opinion of a former UK cop wondering why the T7 were not engaging with the media (aside from JT re Tannerman).  Quite apart from the judicial secrecy laws which he may not have been aware of, he was being a bit naive, IMO, particularly when any word uttered could be distorted in a negative way to provide a sensational headline.

3. "Changing their stories" can be taken to mean that they were about to "spill the beans" against the McCanns. If there is any element of truth in that, it might well have been that they would happily agree to rogatory interviews in which they could provide more detail and correct media smears.

4. The "syringe" story was pure invention. I haven't even found a potential tenuous link to a half-myth on that one.

5. "Corpse in car and 100% DNA" - yes, that did come from a PJ leak. And it turned out to be that the PJ didn't know what they were talking about.

There was also the "Gerry not the father" rubbish splashed all over the papers, and many more.

I have no idea whether the McCanns had been told that the files would be made accessible to the media. I suspect so as a few comments made by some of the T7 tend to make me think that they were aware that what they said could be made public. That said, the files were supposed to be made accessible to the media (i.e. for the perusal of responsible journalists adhering to a code of ethics) - they were not supposed to be splashed unredacted all over the Internet for every Tom, Dick and Harriet.

There was so much misinformation and downright propaganda doing the rounds in 2007 that it was impossible for people to to evaluate precisely what the real story was.

John Stalker is always quoted on his 'suspicion' about the silence of the McCann friends but for some reason or other the sceptics never read beyond the headline ... in the same article he continues ...


**snip
The sad fact is that we still have a missing girl and I believe the investigation will be focusing on the theory that she is dead.

The likeliest scenario is that her abductor panicked when he realised the attention the case was creating and killed her days after snatching her.

My fear now is that unless we find her body or her killer strikes again we will never know what really happened to that tiny child.

My instinct, based on years of policing similar cases, is that we are looking at an abduction where the child was targeted in the days before her disappearance.

On the night she vanished it is likely that her abductor simply spotted his opportunity and struck while he could.

I have been horrified by the abject failure of the Portuguese detectives to adhere to basic principles of policing.

The investigation does not seem to have taken a step forward from where it was in the first week after she went missing. I cannot believe that the Portuguese only sent selected DNA samples to the forensic science lab in Birmingham.

There is absolutely no sense in that whatsoever. To fully evaluate poor-quality DNA traces, as we believe these were, forensic experts need to see the whole picture.

In the past, when I have dealt with traces of bodily fluids, it is very difficult to establish how they got to be where they were.

All DNA is highly transferable and that is the most likely explanation for the alleged traces found in the McCanns' hire car and on her mother's clothing. Robert Murat, the other suspect, was seen close to the apartment the day after Madeleine disappeared and freely admits having helped police as a translator.

If he was in that apartment, or anywhere near it, ther is no doubt he would have transferred some of Madeleine's or the twins' DNA on to his clothing.

I don't believe for one minute that Kate and Gerry McCann or their friends are capable or guilty of having murdered the four-year-old.

All the criticism of Kate and Gerry and their friends has been completely out of order. They are extremely intelligent and articulate people and, just because they have never visibly cracked in public to the extent that they are beaten, does not mean that they are guilty of anything sinister.

Yes, they have had more doors opened for them than other people would have in similar circumstances, but their main aim is to discover what happened to Madeleine. That should be the aim of all concerned.

But my gut instinct still forces me to wonder: What is the secret that the Tapas Nine are so carefully hiding?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/6oct7/EXPRESS-28-10-07.htm
 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 11:46:50 AM
Your 'reasoned' approach is to back the mccanns 100%.

Regardless of the fact that the persons responsible for Madeleine's disappearance have yet to be determined.

All you clearly show, is BLIND FAITH and nothing more, and every action you undertake on here, reflects that fact.


You appear to confuse the press misinformation prevalent from 2007 with fact, if that keeps you content, who am I to burst your bubble.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 11:49:15 AM

You appear to confuse the press misinformation prevalent from 2007 with fact, if that keeps you content, who am I to burst your bubble.

I was referring to the years after the libel hearing.

No would you care to give examples of where the mccanns have been asked pertinent questions about their account of events, in newspapers and conferences , in the UK , in intervening years ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 18, 2015, 11:55:26 AM
I was referring to the years after the libel hearing.

No would you care to give examples of where the mccanns have been asked pertinent questions about their account of events, in newspapers and conferences , in the UK , in intervening years ?

You are missing the point.  The Media do not have a right to ask questions of The McCanns regarding the disappearance of their daughter, and nor did The Leveson Inquiry.  The McCanns were not and never have been On Trial.  And Trial by Media is totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 18, 2015, 11:57:45 AM
There was so much misinformation and downright propaganda doing the rounds in 2007 that it was impossible for people to to evaluate precisely what the real story was.

John Stalker is always quoted on his 'suspicion' about the silence of the McCann friends but for some reason or other the sceptics never read beyond the headline ... in the same article he continues ...


**snip
The sad fact is that we still have a missing girl and I believe the investigation will be focusing on the theory that she is dead.

The likeliest scenario is that her abductor panicked when he realised the attention the case was creating and killed her days after snatching her.

My fear now is that unless we find her body or her killer strikes again we will never know what really happened to that tiny child.

My instinct, based on years of policing similar cases, is that we are looking at an abduction where the child was targeted in the days before her disappearance.

On the night she vanished it is likely that her abductor simply spotted his opportunity and struck while he could.

I have been horrified by the abject failure of the Portuguese detectives to adhere to basic principles of policing.

The investigation does not seem to have taken a step forward from where it was in the first week after she went missing. I cannot believe that the Portuguese only sent selected DNA samples to the forensic science lab in Birmingham.

There is absolutely no sense in that whatsoever. To fully evaluate poor-quality DNA traces, as we believe these were, forensic experts need to see the whole picture.

In the past, when I have dealt with traces of bodily fluids, it is very difficult to establish how they got to be where they were.

All DNA is highly transferable and that is the most likely explanation for the alleged traces found in the McCanns' hire car and on her mother's clothing. Robert Murat, the other suspect, was seen close to the apartment the day after Madeleine disappeared and freely admits having helped police as a translator.

If he was in that apartment, or anywhere near it, ther is no doubt he would have transferred some of Madeleine's or the twins' DNA on to his clothing.

I don't believe for one minute that Kate and Gerry McCann or their friends are capable or guilty of having murdered the four-year-old.

All the criticism of Kate and Gerry and their friends has been completely out of order. They are extremely intelligent and articulate people and, just because they have never visibly cracked in public to the extent that they are beaten, does not mean that they are guilty of anything sinister.

Yes, they have had more doors opened for them than other people would have in similar circumstances, but their main aim is to discover what happened to Madeleine. That should be the aim of all concerned.

But my gut instinct still forces me to wonder: What is the secret that the Tapas Nine are so carefully hiding?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/6oct7/EXPRESS-28-10-07.htm
 

Is it worth pointing out that this article was published long before the files were released. It would be interesting to hear what Stalker thinks now.

Also four years, £10m and thousands of man hours later and SY appear to know no more than the PJ in those first few months.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Carana on April 18, 2015, 12:02:19 PM
I was referring to the years after the libel hearing.

No would you care to give examples of where the mccanns have been asked pertinent questions about their account of events, in newspapers and conferences , in the UK , in intervening years ?

What would you consider to be pertinent questions that haven't already been answered? And what would they be pertinent to?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: sadie on April 18, 2015, 12:25:24 PM
Is it worth pointing out that this article was published long before the files were released. It would be interesting to hear what Stalker thinks now.

Also four years, £10m and thousands of man hours later and SY appear to know no more than the PJ in those first few months.

Dont kid yourself !

They know sooooo much that you dont know about ... as proved by their actions.

Soz, I cant tell you which actions.  Some on here know, but you will have to work it out, yourself.


Cos I aint telling you.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 12:30:00 PM
You are missing the point.  The Media do not have a right to ask questions of The McCanns regarding the disappearance of their daughter, and nor did The Leveson Inquiry.  The McCanns were not and never have been On Trial.  And Trial by Media is totally unacceptable.

I am not missing any point at all.

Why should anyone take the mccanns version of events to be the truth, when the nature of the crime is to be determined.

Or would you rather everyone fawn to the mccanns and believe every word they said ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 12:31:24 PM
Dont kid yourself !

They know sooooo much that you dont know about ... as proved by their actions.

Soz, I cant tell you which actions.  Some on here know, but you will have to work it out, yourself.


Cos I aint telling you.

SY would not tell you anything pertinent sadie.

You are no more than a member of the public.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 12:38:40 PM
Dont kid yourself !

They know sooooo much that you dont know about ... as proved by their actions.

Soz, I cant tell you which actions.  Some on here know, but you will have to work it out, yourself.


Cos I aint telling you.

The one thing they did ~ that the PJ singularly failed to do ~ was to eliminate Madeleine McCann's parents and their friends from the inquiry.
This has enabled them to follow other avenues which will hopefully lead to the resolution of Madeleine's case.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 18, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
I am not missing any point at all.

Why should anyone take the mccanns version of events to be the truth, when the nature of the crime is to be determined.

Or would you rather everyone fawn to the mccanns and believe every word they said ?

Trial by Media is totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 12:41:40 PM
I am not missing any point at all.

Why should anyone take the mccanns version of events to be the truth, when the nature of the crime is to be determined.

Or would you rather everyone fawn to the mccanns and believe every word they said ?

Would you rather that people base their opinions on discredited and false information promoted by the press than on the few facts which are in the public domain?

That was a rhetorical question in case you failed to notice.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 12:43:03 PM
Trial by Media is totally unacceptable.

So if the media was to find out through investigative journalism that people have committed serious crimes, that would be wrong, and I am talking in general here.

As to trial by media, it has happened since the invention of the 'media' and you're naive if you believe , it will go away.

and pray tell me, why should anyone believe the mccanns story, when they are contradictions in their accounts of events ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 12:49:45 PM
Would you rather that people base their opinions on discredited and false information promoted by the press than on the few facts which are in the public domain?

That was a rhetorical question in case you failed to notice.

Everything you say, has to be judged in conjunction with your unequivocal support of the mccanns.

P.S. I do know what a rhetorical question is. 8((()*/

and pray tell, how do you know the mccanns have told the truth of what happened ?

 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 18, 2015, 12:50:16 PM
So if the media was to find out through investigative journalism that people have committed serious crimes, that would be wrong, and I am talking in general here.

As to trial by media, it has happened since the invention of the 'media' and you're naive if you believe , it will go away.

and pray tell me, why should anyone believe the mccanns story, when they are contradictions in their accounts of events ?

Hence The Leveson Inquiry.  Trial by Media has to stop.  Too many innocent people are tainted by this.  Who is innocent or guilty is the remit of The Courts.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: lordpookles on April 18, 2015, 12:53:34 PM
I agree in a way with that Eleanor, but how do you propose to stop people talking about/discussing stuff? In a way the press is just an extension of the public discourse. The worse possible scenario is a world in which we muzzle the press.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 12:54:17 PM
Hence The Leveson Inquiry.  Trial by Media has to stop.  Too many innocent people are tainted by this.  Who is innocent or guilty is the remit of The Courts.

How do you know it is going to stop ?

and as I said, if investigative journalism reveals criminal activities,are you prepared to say that journalists should not engage in that?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 18, 2015, 01:29:58 PM
I agree in a way with that Eleanor, but how do you propose to stop people talking about/discussing stuff? In a way the press is just an extension of the public discourse. The worse possible scenario is a world in which we muzzle the press.

Thanks, Pookles.

It is possible to discuss things without direct accusations and deliberate innuendo.  It just requires a bit of self control and an improved use and knowledge of The English Language.  Inverted Commas and IMO won't do if Libel is implied.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 18, 2015, 01:34:39 PM
How do you know it is going to stop ?

and as I said, if investigative journalism reveals criminal activities,are you prepared to say that journalists should not engage in that?

Fine if they can Prove what they are saying.  Otherwise they will have to take their chances with The Laws of Libel.  As some of them discovered.

It is already much better under control.  Most of the more responsible Media Outlets are now refusing to accept comments.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: John on April 18, 2015, 01:54:00 PM
A gentle reminder on this glorious Spring day to keep on topic please and to keep posts polite but firm where appropriate.   

*&(+(+
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Carana on April 18, 2015, 02:47:11 PM
I agree in a way with that Eleanor, but how do you propose to stop people talking about/discussing stuff? In a way the press is just an extension of the public discourse. The worse possible scenario is a world in which we muzzle the press.

I doubt that many posters here are against a responsible press.

The anarchy generated by the "free speach (sic) but only for me" brigade unleashed by the explosion in social media will - at some point - have to give way to democratic values of rights and responsibilities. Hopefully, at least.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 03:23:15 PM
Fine if they can Prove what they are saying.  Otherwise they will have to take their chances with The Laws of Libel.  As some of them discovered.

It is already much better under control.  Most of the more responsible Media Outlets are now refusing to accept comments.

What then will stop criminals using the laws of libel to hide their crimes.

e.g. Jeffrey Archer and the case of the prostitute.

True in the end he was sent to prison, only because the newspaper involved persevered afterthze initial court case.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 18, 2015, 03:31:58 PM

This Thread is about Madeleine McCann Press coverage.  It has already gone quite far enough Off Topic.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 18, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
So if the media was to find out through investigative journalism that people have committed serious crimes, that would be wrong, and I am talking in general here.

As to trial by media, it has happened since the invention of the 'media' and you're naive if you believe , it will go away.

and pray tell me, why should anyone believe the mccanns story, when they are contradictions in their accounts of events ?

No-one is objecting to ''investigative journalism''  -  but investigative journalism has nothing whatsoever to do with  the barrage of scurrilous lies printed about the McCanns over a period of several months.     IMO the only 'investigations'  carried out in that regard -  was into how much extra profit the papers would make if they went ahead and printed them.   

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 18, 2015, 04:05:35 PM
Would you rather that people base their opinions on discredited and false information promoted by the press than on the few facts which are in the public domain?

That was a rhetorical question in case you failed to notice.

Your post may have been viewed with the respect you so obviously think it deserves if you didn't illustrate almost every one of your arguments with a link to some tabloid article or other.

Cherry picking at its best I'd say.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2015, 04:16:18 PM
So if the media was to find out through investigative journalism that people have committed serious crimes, that would be wrong, and I am talking in general here.

As to trial by media, it has happened since the invention of the 'media' and you're naive if you believe , it will go away.

and pray tell me, why should anyone believe the mccanns story, when they are contradictions in their accounts of events ?

so you would support Brunt investigating Brenda Leyland
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 05:42:45 PM
Fine if they can Prove what they are saying.  Otherwise they will have to take their chances with The Laws of Libel.  As some of them discovered.

It is already much better under control.  Most of the more responsible Media Outlets are now refusing to accept comments.

I think the fact that the majority of responsible newspapers find it impossible to allow comment on Madeleine McCann's case or any related story because of the tawdry comments certain to be posted is an utter disgrace.

There are responsibilities which go hand in hand with the right to freedom of speech; the relentless self congratulatory campaigns have taken that right away from the general public when it comes to publishers having to make sure they stay within the law in their comments sections.

Really very sad.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 05:56:32 PM
I think the fact that the majority of responsible newspapers find it impossible to allow comment on Madeleine McCann's case or any related story because of the tawdry comments certain to be posted is an utter disgrace.

There are responsibilities which go hand in hand with the right to freedom of speech; the relentless self congratulatory campaigns have taken that right away from the general public when it comes to publishers having to make sure they stay within the law in their comments sections.

Really very sad.

Does that include the mccanns, their friends or associates, attacking others using the media, via 'sources close to the McCann's'. ?


 %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: sadie on April 18, 2015, 06:11:02 PM
Does that include the mccanns, their friends or associates, attacking others using the media, via 'sources close to the McCann's'. ?


 %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
When did that happen Stephen?

I saw no attacks.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 06:15:40 PM
Does that include the mccanns, their friends or associates, attacking others using the media, via 'sources close to the McCann's'. ?


 %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#

Please cite any evidence you may have and/or occasions when the people you have mentioned have lied about people and libelled them ... thanking you in anticipation of your first provision of a requested cite.



There are retrospective reports from many journalist who were on the ground in Praia da Luz and who bitterly regretted the copy which they sent back to their editors.

The retiring editor of the Daily Express noted that a regret of his career was printing what the journalists were gathering from their sources regarding Madeleine McCann's disappearance. Although accepting that it was his job and theirs to sell newspapers, which Madeleine McCann's name did in abundance.

Hindsight is indeed an exact science and newspaper professionals have accepted that they perpetrated dreadful calumnies against the parents of a missing child.

The clincher I think may have been when they had sight of the FSS files and not the misunderstood interpretation of them. Nobody likes being taken for mugs ... and they were collectively taken to the cleaners!

Wonder why there are those even today who have not quite grasped the reality of that situation.


**snip
But he is contrite about the sad episode that ended with Express Newspapers being landed with one of the most expensive legal bills in newspaper history – the coverage of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Hill's paper and its three other titles, the Daily Star, Sunday Express and Daily Star Sunday. He says: "I did too much on the story. I accept that."

Too much wasn't the only problem though. There were also the stories that suggested Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, might have been complicit in her disappearance, which in its apology Express Newspapers admitted were "seriously defamatory".

Asked whether he regretted libelling the McCanns, he replies: "Of course I do. And I insisted on apologising on the front of the newspaper when it became clear that it was a complete fabrication. We gave them £500,000. It doesn't redound to my credit but it did help them to continue the search."

Leaking stories
So why did it happen? "It was a huge story, and every adult in the country had an opinion on it. I admit it helped to sell the paper. There were many factors involved, such as the way Maddy's parents sought publicity in an unprecedented way.
"All the way through, our principal focus was on 'what's happened to Maddy?' The Portuguese police and British legal sources were leaking stories that implied the McCanns were guilty in some way. We were not to know that the Portuguese police were ineffectual and, in some cases, corrupt."

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/feb/21/peter-hill-daily-express-madeleine-mccann
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 06:28:33 PM
so you would support Brunt investigating Brenda Leyland

Perhaps you should read again.

sky and brunt, took the law into their own hands.

If they suspected Brenda of criminal activity, they should have taken the evidence to the police.

They didn't.

She's dead.

They acted as vigilantes.

The consequences of that are well known.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 06:34:45 PM
Please cite any evidence you may have and/or occasions when the people you have mentioned have lied about people and libelled them ... thanking you in anticipation of your first provision of a requested cite.



There are retrospective reports from many journalist who were on the ground in Praia da Luz and who bitterly regretted the copy which they sent back to their editors.

The retiring editor of the Daily Express noted that a regret of his career was printing what the journalists were gathering from their sources regarding Madeleine McCann's disappearance. Although accepting that it was his job and theirs to sell newspapers, which Madeleine McCann's name did in abundance.

Hindsight is indeed an exact science and newspaper professionals have accepted that they perpetrated dreadful calumnies against the parents of a missing child.

The clincher I think may have been when they had sight of the FSS files and not the misunderstood interpretation of them. Nobody likes being taken for mugs ... and they were collectively taken to the cleaners!

Wonder why there are those even today who have not quite grasped the reality of that situation.


**snip
But he is contrite about the sad episode that ended with Express Newspapers being landed with one of the most expensive legal bills in newspaper history – the coverage of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Hill's paper and its three other titles, the Daily Star, Sunday Express and Daily Star Sunday. He says: "I did too much on the story. I accept that."

Too much wasn't the only problem though. There were also the stories that suggested Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, might have been complicit in her disappearance, which in its apology Express Newspapers admitted were "seriously defamatory".

Asked whether he regretted libelling the McCanns, he replies: "Of course I do. And I insisted on apologising on the front of the newspaper when it became clear that it was a complete fabrication. We gave them £500,000. It doesn't redound to my credit but it did help them to continue the search."

Leaking stories
So why did it happen? "It was a huge story, and every adult in the country had an opinion on it. I admit it helped to sell the paper. There were many factors involved, such as the way Maddy's parents sought publicity in an unprecedented way.
"All the way through, our principal focus was on 'what's happened to Maddy?' The Portuguese police and British legal sources were leaking stories that implied the McCanns were guilty in some way. We were not to know that the Portuguese police were ineffectual and, in some cases, corrupt."

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/feb/21/peter-hill-daily-express-madeleine-mccann

Did I use the word lie in my post ?

NO.

You implied I did.

Now I know what that makes you.

and are you really saying  the mccanns, friends or followers have not attacked or slandered others ?

Give me a break

Two easy examples..............

Pat Brown and Amaral.

and also don't lie and say I don't give cites.

I do and /or give my opinion.


http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/we-are-in-secret-madeleine-mccann-troll.html


Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2015, 06:39:34 PM
Perhaps you should read again.

sky and brunt, took the law into their own hands.

If they suspected Brenda of criminal activity, they should have taken the evidence to the police.

They didn't.

She's dead.

They acted as vigilantes.

The consequences of that are well known.

This is what you posted...
As to trial by media, it has happened since the invention of the 'media' and you're naive if you believe , it will go away.


Do you actually understand what you are posting.....Brenda...Brunt....trial by media
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 06:50:45 PM
This is what you posted...
As to trial by media, it has happened since the invention of the 'media' and you're naive if you believe , it will go away.


Do you actually understand what you are posting.....Brenda...Brunt....trial by media

Why are you so angry dave ?

Did I say it was the right thing to do ?

Clearly you approve of it.

Shouldn't  the correct course of action be for the press to go to the police first ?

In case you haven't noticed, Brenda is dead.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2015, 07:00:39 PM
Why are you so angry dave ?

Did I say it was the right thing to do ?

Clearly you approve of it.

Shouldn't  the correct course of action be for the press to go to the police first ?

In case you haven't noticed, Brenda is dead.

Brenda was tried by the media....that's the way it is..trial by media is not going to go away...is what you wrote...and that is correct
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
Trial by media is a  necessary evil...tempered by  libel law...this will help stop things being covered up
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 07:06:50 PM
Brenda was tried by the media....that's the way it is..trial by media is not going to go away...is what you wrote...and that is correct

A woman guilty of NO CRIME is dead.

Are you happy with that ?

Would you like to see the mccanns treated the same way as Brenda was, with no one to help her ?

When for the first year when the mccanns were attacked by some members of the press, they had help.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2015, 07:08:25 PM
Trial by media is a  necessary evil...tempered by  libel law...this will help stop things being covered up

Does that include the paedophile politicians, judges, police, etc., whose activities were covered up ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 07:51:41 PM
Did I use the word lie in my post ?

NO.

You implied I did.

Now I know what that makes you.

and are you really saying  the mccanns, friends or followers have not attacked or slandered others ?

Give me a break

Two easy examples..............

Pat Brown and Amaral.

and also don't lie and say I don't give cites.

I do and /or give my opinion.


http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/we-are-in-secret-madeleine-mccann-troll.html

True to form Stephen, you have made another pejorative accusation directed at the Drs McCann and their associates when you claim, "Does that include the mcanns, their friends or associates, attacking others using the media, via 'sources close to the McCann's'. ?" without being able to corroborate it.
As well as reiterating your opinion in your response ... still minus any cite to back it up.

I would say that reflects perfectly the type of misinformation and innuendo Madeleine's parents suffered due to leaks from 'a source close to the investigation' in the immediate aftermath of her disappearance.

I didn't expect you to provide a cite ... in fact I would have been astounded if you had ... rather devalues anything you have to say old chap or chapess as the case may be. Not worth the green ink with which it would have been written pre- internet days.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2015, 10:29:04 PM

I don't think it is possible to place enough emphasis and abhorrence on the unjustifiably shabby treatment Madeleine McCann's parents have received at the hands of the press. 

Thankfully the broadcast media in Britain had a more restrained approach; unlike in Portugal where Sargento, Amaral and Cristóvão made a ubiquitous presence and an easy living from perpetuating the myths and assumptions which they had been instrumental in fashioning. ( botched and inconclusive investigation, books and documentaries etc)

The McCanns are not an abstract ~ they are living breathing people ~ doing their best to bring up their children as best they can ~ while doing the best they can to find their missing daughter.

It is my opinion that their human rights have been systematically abjured by inhumane internet comment which says so much more about those making the comments than those on the receiving end.

They have been charged with nothing …  the calumnies levelled at them have been proved to be without foundation … yet there are those who remain unable to comprehend the simple message contained in the press climbdown.


**snip
Media commentator Roy Greenslade said that for two national newspapers to carry front-page apologies at the same time was an "unprecedented climbdown".

The fact that the papers capitulated without a fight suggested that their legal advisers told them they had no chance of winning if the case went to trial, he said.

"This was no journalistic accident, but a sustained campaign of vitriol against a grief-stricken family.

The stories were not merely speculative, but laced with innuendo which continually made accusations against the McCanns on the basis of anonymous sources and without any hard evidence." he said.

"Wild claims, often made by unattributed sources to Portuguese newspapers, were then spun even more negatively by the Express and Star titles."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mccanns-win-pound-550k-payout-and-apologies-for-libels-1.876873
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 18, 2015, 11:21:54 PM
I don't think it is possible to place enough emphasis and abhorrence on the unjustifiably shabby treatment Madeleine McCann's parents have received at the hands of the press. 

Thankfully the broadcast media in Britain had a more restrained approach; unlike in Portugal where Sargento, Amaral and Cristóvão made a ubiquitous presence and an easy living from perpetuating the myths and assumptions which they had been instrumental in fashioning. ( botched and inconclusive investigation, books and documentaries etc)

The McCanns are not an abstract ~ they are living breathing people ~ doing their best to bring up their children as best they can ~ while doing the best they can to find their missing daughter.

It is my opinion that their human rights have been systematically abjured by inhumane internet comment which says so much more about those making the comments than those on the receiving end.

They have been charged with nothing …  the calumnies levelled at them have been proved to be without foundation … yet there are those who remain unable to comprehend the simple message contained in the press climbdown.


**snip
Media commentator Roy Greenslade said that for two national newspapers to carry front-page apologies at the same time was an "unprecedented climbdown".

The fact that the papers capitulated without a fight suggested that their legal advisers told them they had no chance of winning if the case went to trial, he said.

"This was no journalistic accident, but a sustained campaign of vitriol against a grief-stricken family.

The stories were not merely speculative, but laced with innuendo which continually made accusations against the McCanns on the basis of anonymous sources and without any hard evidence." he said.

"Wild claims, often made by unattributed sources to Portuguese newspapers, were then spun even more negatively by the Express and Star titles."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mccanns-win-pound-550k-payout-and-apologies-for-libels-1.876873

Not sure why you have been labouring the point quite so vociferously over the last day or so. I think everyone agrees that the McCanns received some terrible press in the early days, and especially after they were made arguidos. However I think you will find that the number of those scurrilous stories pale into insignificance when viewed against the amount of good press that the McCanns have received since. BTW Brietta if you are so disgusted by the treatment of the McCanns by certain newspapers why do you use links to them  to illustrate many of your points ?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Lyall on April 18, 2015, 11:47:35 PM
I don't think it is possible to place enough emphasis and abhorrence on the unjustifiably shabby treatment Madeleine McCann's parents have received at the hands of the press. 

Thankfully the broadcast media in Britain had a more restrained approach; unlike in Portugal where Sargento, Amaral and Cristóvão made a ubiquitous presence and an easy living from perpetuating the myths and assumptions which they had been instrumental in fashioning. ( botched and inconclusive investigation, books and documentaries etc)

The McCanns are not an abstract ~ they are living breathing people ~ doing their best to bring up their children as best they can ~ while doing the best they can to find their missing daughter.

It is my opinion that their human rights have been systematically abjured by inhumane internet comment which says so much more about those making the comments than those on the receiving end.

They have been charged with nothing …  the calumnies levelled at them have been proved to be without foundation … yet there are those who remain unable to comprehend the simple message contained in the press climbdown.


**snip
Media commentator Roy Greenslade said that for two national newspapers to carry front-page apologies at the same time was an "unprecedented climbdown".

The fact that the papers capitulated without a fight suggested that their legal advisers told them they had no chance of winning if the case went to trial, he said.

"This was no journalistic accident, but a sustained campaign of vitriol against a grief-stricken family.

The stories were not merely speculative, but laced with innuendo which continually made accusations against the McCanns on the basis of anonymous sources and without any hard evidence." he said.

"Wild claims, often made by unattributed sources to Portuguese newspapers, were then spun even more negatively by the Express and Star titles."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mccanns-win-pound-550k-payout-and-apologies-for-libels-1.876873

You are of course only telling half of the story.

The press did indeed do what they do best: reproduce material found elsewhere with minimum consideration and effort.

But at the same time they always printed every word the McCanns wanted them to. Every paper did so, including Express and Star.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2015, 12:09:16 AM
You are of course only telling half of the story.

The press did indeed do what they do best: reproduce material found elsewhere with minimum consideration and effort.

But at the same time they always printed every word the McCanns wanted them to. Every paper did so, including Express and Star.

Oh ... I see ... the Drs McCann were perfectly happy with newspaper stories in which they were accused of selling their daughter to pay off their debts ~ were involved in wife swapping ~ all with the underlying beat that they were responsible for their daughter's death.
How they and their family must have appreciated all that!!

Get real ... Lyall.

Nothing justifies fabricated tales like that ... and if it was so easy for the Drs McCann to have the press eating out of the palm of their hands as you have metaphorically stated ... why was it necessary for them to go to court to get the newspapers who were defaming and libelling them on a daily basis to desist?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Lyall on April 19, 2015, 12:22:19 AM
Oh ... I see ... the Drs McCann were perfectly happy with newspaper stories in which they were accused of selling their daughter to pay off their debts ~ were involved in wife swapping ~ all with the underlying beat that they were responsible for their daughter's death.
How they and their family must have appreciated all that!!

Get real ... Lyall.

Nothing justifies fabricated tales like that ... and if it was so easy for the Drs McCann to have the press eating out of the palm of their hands as you have metaphorically stated ... why was it necessary for them to go to court to get the newspapers who were defaming and libelling them on a daily basis to desist?

I'm not saying the papers simultaneously gave them great support for philanthropic reasons, of course the reasons were also financial. That's why they didn't just stop when asked.

But why didn't the McCanns use the PCC from August? Why was it 2008 before they used the courts?

The press were perhaps getting mixed messages for that reason. The position wasn't as black and white as you're claiming.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2015, 12:31:16 AM
Every cloud has a silver lining. The "Drs Mccann" received at least £1.3 million compensation from the newspapers for articles written therefore enabling them to fund the search. They further recieved another £0.5 million from the Sun which serialised their book.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2015, 01:11:39 AM
Every cloud has a silver lining. The "Drs Mccann" received at least £1.3 million compensation from the newspapers for articles written therefore enabling them to fund the search. They further recieved another £0.5 million from the Sun which serialised their book.

The 'silver lining' hardly compensates for the ruination of of one's character, the effects of which can be measured today by those who have never heard about the FSS report, but have heard all about body fluids slopping around the non existent wheel well of the Renault.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2015, 01:21:31 AM
I'm not saying the papers simultaneously gave them great support for philanthropic reasons, of course the reasons were also financial. That's why they didn't just stop when asked.

But why didn't the McCanns use the PCC from August? Why was it 2008 before they used the courts?

The press were perhaps getting mixed messages for that reason. The position wasn't as black and white as you're claiming.

You just aren't going to accept that the press were way off line in the unprecedented systemic character assassination they undertook on the McCanns.

Nothing short of sadistic when taking their status into account.

Easy to remember headlines such as ~ PARENTS' CAR HID A CORPSE - Portuguese police ~ so easy to overlook the retraction made the following day.

Don't excuse the actions of the press ~ they were content with their sales ~ if they were destroying a family in the process ~ so what?
That it took legal action ~ not a polite request to desist ~ rather reveals all.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2015, 01:23:50 AM
The 'silver lining' hardly compensates for the ruination of of one's character, the effects of which can be measured today by those who have never heard about the FSS report, but have heard all about body fluids slopping around the non existent wheel well of the Renault.

I doubt there is more than a handful of people who believe that, bit drama queenish of you if I may say so. Not good or clever to gild the lily.
Still, the Drs Mccanns must have been happy with the welcome injection of million plus funds to aid the search, 'even if'' they felt their characters were marred to a stranger population who read the papers
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: misty on April 19, 2015, 01:30:20 AM
I doubt there is more than a handful of people who believe that, bit drama queenish of you if I may say so. Not good or clever to gild the lily.
Still, the Drs Mccanns must have been happy with the welcome injection of million plus funds to aid the search, 'even if'''they felt their characters were marred to a stranger population who read the papers

25000 Facebook members & a daily perusal of the constant stream of tweeters on #mccann would disagree with you on that.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2015, 01:33:55 AM
I doubt there is more than a handful of people who believe that, bit drama queenish of you if I may say so. Not good or clever to gild the lily.
Still, the Drs Mccanns must have been happy with the welcome injection of million plus funds to aid the search, 'even if'' they felt their characters were marred to a stranger population who read the papers

Please take note of what Misty has said ... money does not compensate for that sort of lasting character assassination.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2015, 01:35:43 AM
25000 Facebook members & a daily perusal of the constant stream of tweeters on #mccann would disagree with you on that.

25000 people think this? I don't believe you. And I am sure you have no proof.

But, what if they did?
What does it matter?
It matters not a jot. Many people think aliens control their minds. Enough said. My shift calls.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: misty on April 19, 2015, 01:51:15 AM
25000 people think this? I don't believe you. And I am sure you have no proof.

But, what if they did?
What does it matter?
It matters not a jot. Many people think aliens control their minds. Enough said. My shift calls.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheMadeleineMcCannControversy/


24,640 members



AboutPublic GroupPublic Group
Three successive governments have helped the McCanns conceal Madeleine's untimely death in suspicious circumstances for over seven years. What on earth happened to that poor three year old?

____________________________________________________________________

That is just a snippet of the group's résumé, its raison d'être based mainly on the myths propagated by the (Portuguese) media and ex-lead detective.
 Supporters of the abduction theory are not permitted to join in the debate, often finding themselves ejected into the abyss towards the bowels of Facebook.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Lyall on April 19, 2015, 01:52:01 AM
You just aren't going to accept that the press were way off line in the unprecedented systemic character assassination they undertook on the McCanns.

Nothing short of sadistic when taking their status into account.

Easy to remember headlines such as ~ PARENTS' CAR HID A CORPSE - Portuguese police ~ so easy to overlook the retraction made the following day.

Don't excuse the actions of the press ~ they were content with their sales ~ if they were destroying a family in the process ~ so what?
That it took legal action ~ not a polite request to desist ~ rather reveals all.

Of course I accept some papers were out of line , it was obvious at the time. Why didn't they use the PCC or the court earlier?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 19, 2015, 09:30:04 AM
What supporters fail to acknowledge is that just because something is written in the newspapers doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of the readers believe it. They seem to have worked out that those scurrilous stories aren't true so are they really so arrogant to think that most newspaper readers aren't intelligent enough to work that out too ?

As to the compensation payments made to the McCanns Mercury makes a valid point. If it wasn't for those there would more than likely have been no private search for the child post 2008. 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2015, 10:16:33 AM
You just aren't going to accept that the press were way off line in the unprecedented systemic character assassination they undertook on the McCanns.

Nothing short of sadistic when taking their status into account.

Easy to remember headlines such as ~ PARENTS' CAR HID A CORPSE - Portuguese police ~ so easy to overlook the retraction made the following day.

Don't excuse the actions of the press ~ they were content with their sales ~ if they were destroying a family in the process ~ so what?
That it took legal action ~ not a polite request to desist ~ rather reveals all.

The police investigation led them to believe that Madeleine's corpse was hidden in the car. Therefore, the headline was legitimate. No lie there. And please don't come back with the argument of leaks. That is not the point, the point is that the headline was NOT a lie.

Of course, the McCanns did not want to use the services of PCC because they would not have gotten any monetary compensation. As Gerry said: "Someone has to pay".

You can hardly say that the press destroyed the family. The parents did that all by themselves by not looking after their children.

Perhaps you should analyse the nasty lies the UK press printed about the Portuguese authorities while you are at it. But then your only concern is the McCanns.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2015, 10:35:27 AM
Hence The Leveson Inquiry.  Trial by Media has to stop.  Too many innocent people are tainted by this.  Who is innocent or guilty is the remit of The Courts.

They're not infallible either unfortunately.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 19, 2015, 10:39:10 AM
They're not infallible either unfortunately.

those of us who understand the justice system understand it is designed to be deliberately infallible because it realises that infallibility is impossible
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2015, 10:49:24 AM
those of us who understand the justice system understand it is designed to be deliberately infallible because it realises that infallibility is impossible

It must feel wonderful to be you and know everything.  8((()*/
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 19, 2015, 10:53:54 AM
It must feel wonderful to be you and know everything.  8((()*/

so you don't understand the basic premise of UK justice..uk justice is balanced slightly in favour of the defendant as the law would prefer to see a guilty man walk free than an innocent man jailed... I thought everyone knew that
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2015, 10:56:13 AM
so you don't understand the basic premise of UK justice

Is that a question or a statement i wonder? Statement, so no reply required.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Mr Gray on April 19, 2015, 10:57:51 AM
Is that a question or a statement i wonder? Statement, so no reply required.

it's a statement...the principle I am referring to is Blackstone's Formulation
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2015, 11:21:37 AM
it's a statement...the principle I am referring to is Blackstone's Formulation

Nevertheless the innocent are convicted.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2015, 12:05:10 PM
it's a statement...the principle I am referring to is Blackstone's Formulation

Is that Edmund Blackstone the Bow Street Runner?
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2015, 12:12:00 PM

Topic Please.  Deletions coming up.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2015, 11:24:21 PM
https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheMadeleineMcCannControversy/


24,640 members



AboutPublic GroupPublic Group
Three successive governments have helped the McCanns conceal Madeleine's untimely death in suspicious circumstances for over seven years. What on earth happened to that poor three year old?

____________________________________________________________________

That is just a snippet of the group's résumé, its raison d'être based mainly on the myths propagated by the (Portuguese) media and ex-lead detective.
 Supporters of the abduction theory are not permitted to join in the debate, often finding themselves ejected into the abyss towards the bowels of Facebook.

As I thought here. No proof that thousands of people believe there were "bodily fluids swishng around the car" or whatever the words used earlier were by Britta, because some in that group might. Further, being a member of a  facebook or other group does not automatically mean you agree with everything anyone in it might believe, or even ther "headline tags". 

I would check the facebook site if I could be bothered, but I cannot, as it needs a login name and I am not a member.

Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2015, 11:32:07 PM
Of course I accept some papers were out of line , it was obvious at the time. Why didn't they use the PCC or the court earlier?

Christopher Meyer at the time made it very clear to Gerald Mccann what he could do,  ie, make a complaint via the PCC or go to the courts. He did neither at the time so that Madeleine's name could be kept in the public eye.  A Faustian pact he called it or words to that effect.
Apologies in advance if you respond and I don't reply till tomorrow, I have to run to work.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 19, 2015, 11:46:31 PM
Christopher Meyer at the time made it very clear to Gerald Mccann what he could do,  ie, make a complaint via the PCC or go to the courts. He did neither at the time so that Madeleine's name could be kept in the public eye.  A Faustian pact he called it or words to that effect.
Apologies in advance if you respond and I don't reply till tomorrow, I have to run to work.

Mr McCann:-
It's probably fair to put in there that I had a number of conversations with Sir Christopher, primarily because we became friendly with his wife, Lady Catherine, through her work with PACT, so on that first occasion I met Sir Christopher and he broadly asked, "How are the media treating you?" and we were very open and at that point we said, "Considering the interest, not too bad", and we didn't really have too much in the way of specific complaints.
I did have further informal conversations and they also dealt with correspondence from Kingsley Napley over the period, but the gist of the conversations, and most of my dialogue with him, informal rather than written, was that we agreed with our legal advice and we took the best legal advice we could get, that the way to stop this was to take legal action and not to go to the PCC, and I think Sir Christopher agreed with that.
Mr Jay:-
That's a fair summary, Dr McCann. It's what the committee think as well, although Paul Dacre expressed disappointment that you didn't make a formal complaint to the PCC, although Sir Christopher disagreed with Paul Dacre so we have two views --
Mr McCann:-
I think the ultimate thing was we discussed a course of action and our advice, which was given in no uncertain terms, this is legal advice, was that the PCC were not fit to deal with the accusations, the nature of them, the number of them and the severity.

http://leveson.sayit.mysociety.org/hearing-23-november-2011/dr-gerald-patrick-mccann-and-dr-kate-marie-mccann
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2015, 12:30:35 AM
Mr McCann:-
It's probably fair to put in there that I had a number of conversations with Sir Christopher, primarily because we became friendly with his wife, Lady Catherine, through her work with PACT, so on that first occasion I met Sir Christopher and he broadly asked, "How are the media treating you?" and we were very open and at that point we said, "Considering the interest, not too bad", and we didn't really have too much in the way of specific complaints.
I did have further informal conversations and they also dealt with correspondence from Kingsley Napley over the period, but the gist of the conversations, and most of my dialogue with him, informal rather than written, was that we agreed with our legal advice and we took the best legal advice we could get, that the way to stop this was to take legal action and not to go to the PCC, and I think Sir Christopher agreed with that.
Mr Jay:-
That's a fair summary, Dr McCann. It's what the committee think as well, although Paul Dacre expressed disappointment that you didn't make a formal complaint to the PCC, although Sir Christopher disagreed with Paul Dacre so we have two views --
Mr McCann:-
I think the ultimate thing was we discussed a course of action and our advice, which was given in no uncertain terms, this is legal advice, was that the PCC were not fit to deal with the accusations, the nature of them, the number of them and the severity.

http://leveson.sayit.mysociety.org/hearing-23-november-2011/dr-gerald-patrick-mccann-and-dr-kate-marie-mccann

PCC chairman Sir Christopher Meyer criticises media law firms
Oliver Luft
Wednesday 25 March 2009 00.01 GMT Last modified on Wednesday 25 March 2009 00.18 GMT


Sir Christopher Meyer yesterday criticised a number of London media law firms, claiming they see the Press Complaints Commission as their "sworn enemy". Meyer singled out leading law firm Carter-Ruck, accusing it of using a Commons select committee hearing to lead an attack on the press industry watchdog.

Meyer, the outgoing chairman of the PCC, suggested to MPs on the Commons culture, media and sport committee that Carter-Ruck had used a hearing before them earlier this month to attack his organisation.

Gerry McCann, father of the missing child Madeleine and a Carter-Ruck client, also criticised the PCC at the same hearing. McCann gave evidence flanked by Adam Tudor, a partner at Carter-Ruck.

The Formula One boss Max Mosley appeared before the committee on the same day and heavily criticised the PCC.

"It was a classic Carter-Ruck operation," Meyer told MPs, adding that the session in which McCann give evidence to the committee had seen "a tendentious onslaught on the PCC".

"There are lots of law firms in London specialising in media matters that see us as their sworn enemy, probably because we can do the job for free and can provide a degree of discretion," he added.

Cameron Doley, managing partner with Carter-Ruck, denied that his firm had any involvement with Mosley, who he said was not a client.

Doley also denied that Carter-Ruck had orchestrated an attack on the PCC through McCann, saying his views about the PCC predated the relationship with Carter-Ruck.

"It is quite insulting to suggest that he's an innocent dupe, it's nonsense," Doley said.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/mar/25/christopher-meyer-pcc-media-law
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2015, 12:39:55 AM
Christopher Meyer at Leveson

"12.31pm:
"The PCC made it its business from the very beginning to say, 'we are here to help'," Meyer tells the inquiry. He adds that help was taken up "but only in an ancillary way".

He says that if the McCanns did not want intervention, "You must respect complainants' wishes."

12.28pm:
Meyer says it was "screamingly obvious" what had gone wrong in relation to the McCann saga.

The McCanns needed the press for publicity's sake, he says, but it was a "Faustian" pact."
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Anna on April 20, 2015, 01:17:02 AM
C. Meyer

12.31pm: "The PCC made it its business from the very beginning to say, 'we are here to help'," Meyer tells the inquiry. He adds that help was taken up "but only in an ancillary way".

He says that if the McCanns did not want intervention, "You must respect complainants' wishes."

12.32pm: Meyer says in February 2008 he agreed with the McCanns that launching libel actions against newspapers, rather than going to the PCC, was the right course of action.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id402.html
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2015, 11:23:22 AM
C. Meyer

12.31pm: "The PCC made it its business from the very beginning to say, 'we are here to help'," Meyer tells the inquiry. He adds that help was taken up "but only in an ancillary way".

He says that if the McCanns did not want intervention, "You must respect complainants' wishes."

12.32pm: Meyer says in February 2008 he agreed with the McCanns that launching libel actions against newspapers, rather than going to the PCC, was the right course of action.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id402.html


The point being that if the McCanns had taken up the PCC's offer of help in the middle of 2007 they may never have had to resort to the libel courts.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Benice on April 21, 2015, 09:13:49 AM


The point being that if the McCanns had taken up the PCC's offer of help in the middle of 2007 they may never have had to resort to the libel courts.

It would appear that the PCC were of no use to any of the other 'victims' of the Press who gave evidence at the Leveson Enquiry or they wouldn't have needed to be there.   -  One of them was Christopher Jefferies.   

Quote

Mr Jefferies said the PCC was never really a regulator, but a way of dealing with "comparatively minor complaints" against the press.

He said: "Certainly what has now got to happen is that what replaces the PCC is a genuine regulator with proper powers to ensure that the sort of thing that happened to me, the sort of thing that happened to the McCanns, the Dowlers, whoever else, is never allowed to happen again.''
Unquote



 
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2015, 09:21:11 AM


The point being that if the McCanns had taken up the PCC's offer of help in the middle of 2007 they may never have had to resort to the libel courts.

So people need to ask The PCC for help when they are being Libelled by The Press?  The PCC are incapable of acting alone?
But then The PCC is controlled by The Press.  So no surprises there.
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 22, 2015, 09:53:39 PM
gerald mccann was complaining about the newspapers but didnt want them to stop printing stories, ergo, he had no reason to complain IMO, you dance with the devil you get burnt
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 25, 2015, 03:40:17 PM
gerald mccann was complaining about the newspapers but didnt want them to stop printing stories, ergo, he had no reason to complain IMO, you dance with the devil you get burnt

Oh indeed as many have found out.

I am still unsure the reason behind the UK press involvement so early. Maddie dis sapeared in Portugal, local people and the police,contrary to what you read from Team McCann and their forum luvvies,  were searching for little Maddie- some police were actually 'investigating' as well as searching!

The McCanns were right in there with the 'everybody leaves their children alone while they go out and eat n drink'  testimony They never will get away from people being disgusted at the insinuation that this is done regularly by the UK parents.

 They tried to point the finger at others to blame for the part they played in Maddies continued disappearance, this also back fired badly in terms of sympathy and support IMO.

They made a lot of money from the 'press'...dance with the devil indeed
Title: Re: Madeleine McCann Press coverage - Was it a Saviour or a Damnation?
Post by: mercury on April 26, 2015, 03:02:57 AM
Oh indeed as many have found out.

I am still unsure the reason behind the UK press involvement so early. Maddie dis sapeared in Portugal, local people and the police,contrary to what you read from Team McCann and their forum luvvies,  were searching for little Maddie- some police were actually 'investigating' as well as searching!

The McCanns were right in there with the 'everybody leaves their children alone while they go out and eat n drink'  testimony They never will get away from people being disgusted at the insinuation that this is done regularly by the UK parents.

 They tried to point the finger at others to blame for the part they played in Maddies continued disappearance, this also back fired badly in terms of sympathy and support IMO.

They made a lot of money from the 'press'...dance with the devil indeed

The media got involved so early as the Mccanns and co were calling them the same night...Im sure the story will have been picked up very shortly after anyway