Author Topic: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?  (Read 6078 times)

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Offline misty

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #240 on: October 15, 2018, 09:45:06 PM »
He could have said nothing. That could be construed as deceitful by some for example yourself. IMO he was simply being honest and truthful and he trusted what his dogs alerted to. He knows far more about them than you ever will yet you scrutinise the videos along with others to find things to poke at him with.

There are scent cones & there are scent pools. If the dog/handler couldn't establish the source of the scent, how could the handler differentiate between the dog alerting at a source or a location somewhere within the cone? That principle applies to some of the other alerts.

Offline Sunny

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #241 on: October 15, 2018, 09:51:29 PM »
There are scent cones & there are scent pools. If the dog/handler couldn't establish the source of the scent, how could the handler differentiate between the dog alerting at a source or a location somewhere within the cone? That principle applies to some of the other alerts.

Having read about scent cones I believe Eddie would have zigzagged back to where the scent was strongest before alerting.  With scent pooling he would get his nose in the middle and alert IMO.    Davel said cadaver scent won't pool. I disagree with him too by the way misty.
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Offline Davel

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #242 on: October 15, 2018, 09:52:57 PM »
Do you know how cadaver scent moves Davel? I imagine that Martin Grime knows more about it than you do.

He doesn't seem to..scent moves via Brownian motion...it does not collect anywhere..it dissipates
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Offline Davel

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #243 on: October 15, 2018, 09:54:42 PM »
There are scent cones & there are scent pools. If the dog/handler couldn't establish the source of the scent, how could the handler differentiate between the dog alerting at a source or a location somewhere within the cone? That principle applies to some of the other alerts.

A scent cone may be present when there are physical remains present....with scent being constantly produced
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 09:59:24 PM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #244 on: October 15, 2018, 10:07:48 PM »
He doesn't seem to..scent moves via Brownian motion...it does not collect anywhere..it dissipates

Dissipates in what?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". .Sarah Bailey

Offline misty

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #245 on: October 15, 2018, 10:08:12 PM »
A scent cone may be present when there are physical remains present....with scent being constantly produced

What about when the scent has adhered to a permeable substance, like the fabric on the sofa? As the odour dissipated its pathway into the atmosphere was blocked by walls?

Offline Davel

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #246 on: October 15, 2018, 10:17:46 PM »
What about when the scent has adhered to a permeable substance, like the fabric on the sofa? As the odour dissipated its pathway into the atmosphere was blocked by walls?

Open windows and doors....if the scent molecules had been absorbed by a porous surface then surely they would be physically detectable
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The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Davel

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #247 on: October 15, 2018, 10:20:21 PM »
Dissipates in what?

Surrounding air and out through windows  and doors..remnant scent lasts in a completely sealed room but would not in one with open windows and doors....and certainly not an outside flower bed
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The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #248 on: October 15, 2018, 10:24:03 PM »
Grime days the scent will build up....pool..in a certain area...it won't..it will dissipate
If cadaver odour persists, it might persist in fine particles, for example, skin cells that come off a cadaver.  Now I could think that it is possible that heavier than air particles like cells are blown around in the air currents and could accumulate in certain areas.
So rather than odours being concentrated it is the source of the odours that are gathered.
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #249 on: October 15, 2018, 10:25:42 PM »
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #250 on: October 15, 2018, 10:33:04 PM »
In the atmosphere.

Which comprises? [in the location under consideration]
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Offline misty

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #251 on: October 15, 2018, 10:34:20 PM »
Open windows and doors....if the scent molecules had been absorbed by a porous surface then surely they would be physically detectable

There isn't a scientific test to confirm that which is acceptable in court. It was used in the Casey Anthony trial & was part of the reason the jury didn't convict - the test developed was only capable of identifying some components of cadaver odour.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #252 on: October 15, 2018, 10:37:36 PM »
Surrounding air and out through windows  and doors..remnant scent lasts in a completely sealed room but would not in one with open windows and doors....and certainly not an outside flower bed

So what's with the Brownian movement stuff then ?
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #253 on: October 15, 2018, 10:46:54 PM »
Which comprises? [in the location under consideration]
The air in the room when the doors are shut and more if the doors and windows were opened.
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #254 on: October 15, 2018, 11:08:52 PM »
The air in the room when the doors are shut and more if the doors and windows were opened.

So the scent moves with the air flow?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". .Sarah Bailey