Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[Mr Gray]

Morse and Keela were tested by the FBI who confirmed Morse's impressive success rate.

According to whom... A cite is certainly required for such a claim

[Eleanor]

The point is though at what point in the chemical action of decomposing does urine cease to be urine,neither I nor any one else on here can say I venture, so to say the dog alerted to urine is a not stictly true.

Body Fluids start to decompose the minute they leave the body.  And of course, Urine is in situ as it were  This can happen when someone is still alive, along with Sperm and Menstrual Blood.

This child appears to have had a habit if wetting herself, although I don't find that a problem at her age.

[Eleanor]

According to whom... A cite is certainly required for such a claim

I agree on this occasion.

[G-Unit]

In America they still execute people.  I don’t think that is acceptable, nor do I think it is acceptable that American judges permit dog alert evidence without accompanying forensic evidence, simply on the word of the dog handler and his “expert” buddies in the same field.  This is my opinion, like it or not.

There will always be cases where no forensic evidence can be found. In some of those cases circumstantial evidence can be used to secure a conviction. Allowing the use of alerts by cadaver dogs as part of that evidence has helped to  secure convictions in the US, Scotland and England. In at least two cases the perpetrator has eventually confessed that they did indeed commit the crime. In my opinion that justifies permitting such evidence to be heard.

[Mr Gray]

There will always be cases where no forensic evidence can be found. In some of those cases circumstantial evidence can be used to secure a conviction. Allowing the use of alerts by cadaver dogs as part of that evidence has helped to  secure convictions in the US, Scotland and England. In at least two cases the perpetrator has eventually confessed that they did indeed commit the crime. In my opinion that justifies permitting such evidence to be heard.

Where in England has a cadaver alert help secure a conviction... Are you making things up

[G-Unit]

According to whom... A cite is certainly required for such a claim

Rex A. Stockham, FBI forensic canine program manager, also testified about Morse on Wednesday. He said the English springer spaniel is regularly tested for proficiency, and while no dog is perfect, Morse has been accurate.

“I’m aware of no false positives for Morse,” he said. “We’ve never had any case yet where the dog has responded and it’s been shown to be incorrect.”
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10341.msg499809#msg499809

[Eleanor]

Rex A. Stockham, FBI forensic canine program manager, also testified about Morse on Wednesday. He said the English springer spaniel is regularly tested for proficiency, and while no dog is perfect, Morse has been accurate.

“I’m aware of no false positives for Morse,” he said. “We’ve never had any case yet where the dog has responded and it’s been shown to be incorrect.”
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10341.msg499809#msg499809

That is ambiguous.

[Robittybob1]

Could you explain how the alerts in Portugal could ever be used as evidence when the expert has said the alerts have no evidential reliability

It might if there was additional circumstantial evidence that corroborates the alerts.

[G-Unit]

I agree on this occasion.

May I ask for a cite supporting your assertion that Eddie alerted to urine?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10341.msg499860#msg499860

[Mr Gray]

Rex A. Stockham, FBI forensic canine program manager, also testified about Morse on Wednesday. He said the English springer spaniel is regularly tested for proficiency, and while no dog is perfect, Morse has been accurate.

“I’m aware of no false positives for Morse,” he said. “We’ve never had any case yet where the dog has responded and it’s been shown to be incorrect.”
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10341.msg499809#msg499809

So heres your cite for impressive success rate


I see... No dog is perfect but more has been accurate... Then we have the rubbish about not been shown to be incorrect... It's rubbish because it's basically impossible to show a dog is incorrect.... Even the coconut fiasco is defended by sceptics as not proof of a false positive

[Eleanor]

May I ask for a cite supporting your assertion that Eddie alerted to urine?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10341.msg499860#msg499860

Martin Grime stated, as everyone knows, that Eddie alerted to decomposing Body Fluids.  Urine is one of those.

[faithlilly]

Body Fluids start to decompose the minute they leave the body.  And of course, Urine is in situ as it were  This can happen when someone is still alive, along with Sperm and Menstrual Blood.

This child appears to have had a habit if wetting herself, although I don't find that a problem at her age.

If Morse alerted to urine and the child was known to wet themselves don’t you think Grime would have conceded that that may have been the cause of the alert ? Do you think he was being deliberately disengenous ?

Further why didn’t the defence put urine forward as the cause of the alert ? Surely that would have been enough to totally discredit the alerts ?

[Vertigo Swirl]

There will always be cases where no forensic evidence can be found. In some of those cases circumstantial evidence can be used to secure a conviction. Allowing the use of alerts by cadaver dogs as part of that evidence has helped to  secure convictions in the US, Scotland and England. In at least two cases the perpetrator has eventually confessed that they did indeed commit the crime. In my opinion that justifies permitting such evidence to be heard.

And in Sweden a dog alerted all over a forest floor at sites pointed out by a self-confessed serial killer.  The only problem was, the so-called serial killer was nothing of the sort.  So should the dog alerts have been used to secure a conviction in that instance?

[Mr Gray]

If Morse alerted to urine and the child was known to wet themselves don’t you think Grime would have conceded that that may have been the cause of the alert ? Do you think he was being deliberately disengenous ?

Further why didn’t the defence put urine forward as the cause of the alert ? Surely that would have been enough to totally discredit the alerts ?

It msy well be that ee know more about cadaver alerts than defence lawyers

[Vertigo Swirl]

Rex A. Stockham, FBI forensic canine program manager, also testified about Morse on Wednesday. He said the English springer spaniel is regularly tested for proficiency, and while no dog is perfect, Morse has been accurate.

“I’m aware of no false positives for Morse,” he said. “We’ve never had any case yet where the dog has responded and it’s been shown to be incorrect.”
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10341.msg499809#msg499809

Well if that’s good enough for you and good enough for the US courts... but what happened to “accept nothing, believe no one, confirm everything”?