Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[Robittybob1]

Funny how police forces around the world would spend so much and so many years on studying training methods if that's all it takes.

Making a dog only to find human cadavers is the real trick.  A lot of dogs will find a dead bird and rub the crap along their backs by rolling in it.

[G-Unit]

We don't know how the dogs were tested... We don't know how reliable those tests were... We don't know if Stockham introduced double blind testing... We don't know what he meant by 90 % accurate.... Experts witnesses make claims that impress judges who allow the evidence... It does not mean the evidence is reliable... Judges are not normally scientifically trained

In the case of Florida v Harris in 2013 the US Supreme Court ruled that;

the dog's certification and continued training are adequate indication of his reliability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._Harris

So any police dog handler's evidence is likely to be admissible in the US courts, whatever armchair 'experts' think.

[Robittybob1]

Making a dog only to find human cadavers is the real trick.  A lot of dogs will find a dead bird and rub the crap along their backs by rolling in it.

If that is the dog's normal instinct, the cadaver dogs would need to be trained to alert in a manner that doesn't destroy any of the evidence.  The way Eddie had a tendency to pick up items is a potential issue.

[Vertigo Swirl]

In the case of Florida v Harris in 2013 the US Supreme Court ruled that;

the dog's certification and continued training are adequate indication of his reliability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._Harris

So any police dog handler's evidence is likely to be admissible in the US courts, whatever armchair 'experts' think.

“The Court did not, however, rule out the questioning of reliability where specific grounds are present.[29] Kagan also stated that "a defendant must have an opportunity to challenge such evidence of a dog’s reliability, whether by cross-examining the testifying officer or by introducing his own fact or expert witnesses. The defendant may contest training or testing standards as flawed, or too lax, or raise an issue regarding the particular alert."[31]

[Mr Gray]

In the case of Florida v Harris in 2013 the US Supreme Court ruled that;

the dog's certification and continued training are adequate indication of his reliability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._Harris

So any police dog handler's evidence is likely to be admissible in the US courts, whatever armchair 'experts' think.

What I know is that Grime and Harrison said no evidential reliability/value...

[Mr Gray]

The dogs are trained daily but tested independently less often.

Tested how?

[Robittybob1]

Tested how?

Written and oral tests .....


I'd say the testing has to be the same as training, except the hidden sample would be hidden by the independent assessor, not the dog handler as on training days.

[Miss Taken Identity]

If that is the dog's normal instinct, the cadaver dogs would need to be trained to alert in a manner that doesn't destroy any of the evidence.  The way Eddie had a tendency to pick up items is a potential issue.

That may spark something of  an evidencial issues,however, items would have been tested for DNA samples before...
Would there really be any point in sending in un reliable dogs? did Harrleson accuse anyone of anything? what is all this fuss about?  there is always a chance ,if we are to believe in an abduction, that the child was killed and hidded before being removed by said abductor. what reasons do the McCanns have for not questioning this scenario?

[Mr Gray]

Written and oral tests .....


I'd say the testing has to be the same as training, except the hidden sample would be hidden by the independent assessor, not the dog handler as on training days.

I would expect the dogs to be very good in tests at finding  contaminated samples.... Have they ever been tested where there are no samples present but the handler is unaware .


Just because the dogs can detect cadaverine does not mean every alert is to cadaverine

[Robittybob1]

That may spark something of  an evidencial issues,however, items would have been tested for DNA samples before...
Would there really be any point in sending in un reliable dogs? did Harrleson accuse anyone of anything? what is all this fuss about?  there is always a chance ,if we are to believe in an abduction, that the child was killed and hidded before being removed by said abductor. what reasons do the McCanns have for not questioning this scenario?

That is a very difficult scenario.  So many errors to correct it isn't funny.
Timing problems???
finding something that was hidden????
Why would an abductor abduct a dead child?

[Robittybob1]

I would expect the dogs to be very good in tests at finding  contaminated samples.... Have they ever been tested where there are no samples present but the handler is unaware .


Just because the dogs can detect cadaverine does not mean every alert is to cadaverine

They could do all manner of tests - no doubt just like what you describe. 
Cadaver samples, no cadaver samples, other chemicals and odours, meat food items.

[Mr Gray]

They could do all manner of tests - no doubt just like what you describe. 
Cadaver samples, no cadaver samples, other chemicals and odours, meat food items.

But as far as, we know they havent..

[Miss Taken Identity]

That is a very difficult scenario.  So many errors to correct it isn't funny.
Timing problems???
finding something that was hidden????
Why would an abductor abduct a dead child?

Rob there are serious timing issues throughout this whole fiasco- why are you surprised the time doesn't fit.lol
MBM may not have been dead when hidden and was abducted  believing she was alive.

I don't believe any of it... I am just wondering why it is not a scenario the parents cannot accept as a reasonable account. They dimiss the dogs right off, while sniggering. If It was my daughter I would look at all scenarios/thesis, no matter how bad it looked.

[Robittybob1]

But as far as, we know they havent

Do you mean generally?  Has no one ever described how cadaver dogs are independently tested?

[Mr Gray]

Do you mean generally?  Has no one ever described how cadaver dogs are independently tested?

That's the whole point... We don't know what the tests involve
I suspect just a hidden contaminated pad