Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[The General]

Something or other reminiscent of cadaver scent ... take your pick.

So a remarkable scent to have contaminate anything whilst on a family holiday and your daughter is missing.
David Payne - no scent, Fiona - no scent, Russ - no scent, thingy - no scent, Janie - no scent, Kate - dog goes postal.
The odds are incalculable.

[G-Unit]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10341.msg502287#msg502287

Just like others who are unfamiliar with how cadaver dogs work the PJ had questions. What they did was ask the expert (the dog's trainer and handler) to explain. What they didn't do was assume that they could answer those questions themselves. Others appear to think their opinions have more value than the expert's.

[Mr Gray]

So a remarkable scent to have contaminate anything whilst on a family holiday and your daughter is missing.
David Payne - no scent, Fiona - no scent, Russ - no scent, thingy - no scent, Janie - no scent, Kate - dog goes postal.
The odds are incalculable.

Depends how well you rate the reliability of the, alerts... SY believe  madfie may still be alive

[Mr Gray]

Just like others who are unfamiliar with how cadaver dogs work the PJ had questions. What they did was ask the expert (the dog's trainer and handler) to explain. What they didn't do was assume that they could answer those questions themselves. Others appear to think their opinions have more value than the expert's.

They asked grine two questions in his rog... He didn't answer either

[Mr Gray]

Just like others who are unfamiliar with how cadaver dogs work the PJ had questions. What they did was ask the expert (the dog's trainer and handler) to explain. What they didn't do was assume that they could answer those questions themselves. Others appear to think their opinions have more value than the expert's.

The experts say no evidential reliability

[The General]

Depends how well you rate the reliability of the, alerts... SY believe  madfie may still be alive

Not really, if the dogs are only alerting in the premises and on the belongings of the people whose daughter is missing, then that is corroboration. It doesn't matter how reliable the dog is; it's alerted only to that flat, that car and their belongings. If they were that unreliable they'd be alerting to everyone, or a random selection, or only the one who ate sausages that day, or only the ones with nice faces.

[G-Unit]

They asked grine two questions in his rog... He didn't answer either

I counted 14 questions. Do you have a different version of the files than mine?

[G-Unit]

The experts say no evidential reliability

no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Brietta]

Just like others who are unfamiliar with how cadaver dogs work the PJ had questions. What they did was ask the expert (the dog's trainer and handler) to explain. What they didn't do was assume that they could answer those questions themselves. Others appear to think their opinions have more value than the expert's.

Is it your contention that the PJ and those who have read their report failed to understand the significance of the dog alerts as explained by the expert?

Did the Portuguese prosecutors also get it horribly wrong when they said ...

Snip
To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated.
If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media – before the police – was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.

[Mr Gray]

no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

And no evidence was found

[Mr Gray]

I counted 14 questions. Do you have a different version of the files than mine?

He was asked twice if the alert confirmed cadaverine... He dodged the question both times IMO.

[Brietta]

So a remarkable scent to have contaminate anything whilst on a family holiday and your daughter is missing.
David Payne - no scent, Fiona - no scent, Russ - no scent, thingy - no scent, Janie - no scent, Kate - dog goes postal.
The odds are incalculable.

No scent on items in location (A). 

Scent on same items after being moved to location (B).

What are the chances?

[Brietta]

Not really, if the dogs are only alerting in the premises and on the belongings of the people whose daughter is missing, then that is corroboration. It doesn't matter how reliable the dog is; it's alerted only to that flat, that car and their belongings. If they were that unreliable they'd be alerting to everyone, or a random selection, or only the one who ate sausages that day, or only the ones with nice faces.

Is it corroboration or even good practice?  Not according to my dictionary ...

[Mr Gray]

Not really, if the dogs are only alerting in the premises and on the belongings of the people whose daughter is missing, then that is corroboration. It doesn't matter how reliable the dog is; it's alerted only to that flat, that car and their belongings. If they were that unreliable they'd be alerting to everyone, or a random selection, or only the one who ate sausages that day, or only the ones with nice faces.

You are now claiming the alerts are corroborated... That is wrong IMO.

[The General]

What would be the point of Martin Grime and the concept of detection dogs if they were to be dismissed so readily. All those unsafe convictions in airports for people being sniffed out for crystal meth secreted in their rear fire escapes, all those caches of PIRA semtex that turned out to be modelling clay that we never found in the provinces, those useless, unreliable dogs, goddamit. I'm rambling again. PTSD.