Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 294607 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1245 on: July 18, 2019, 11:53:51 AM »
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
"SUMMARY

The tasking for this operation was as per my normal Standard Operating
Procedures. The dogs are deployed as search assets to secure evidence and
locate human remains or Human blood.

The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
evidence.

Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
corroborating evidence."


Eddie is the EVRD and he hasn't said those alerts can never be corroborated.  OK there was no direct corroboration (no body) but in that last sentence he still allows for the possibility of something coming up, Grime says "unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence".

grime did say they could not be corrobortaed...we discussed it last week and I provided the cite.

in this particular case as no remains were found the ONLY alerts that can become corroborated are the CSI...thats just from memory
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 11:56:14 AM by Davel »

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1246 on: July 18, 2019, 11:58:43 AM »
Then look for them. Ive reached my conclusions and I think they are absolutely correct. Im not here to convince anyone. I can see exactly whats going on and I know exactly why grime has changed his mind.
There are none that implicate the McCanns, and you know that.  That is why you can't list the ones you think implicate the McCanns in an anecdotal way.
Unless you have proof you are implying  you have some inner gnosis.  How do you know "why grime has changed his mind"?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1247 on: July 18, 2019, 12:04:10 PM »
grime did say they could not be corrobortaed...we discussed it last week and I provided the cite.

in this particular case as no remains were found the ONLY alerts that can become corroborated are the CSI...thats just from memory
Well I have just given you a full quote and I've shown quite clearly he is not saying they "could not be corroborated".
Well obviously they weren't corroborated with a body.  But he hasn't ruled out the potential of anecdotal confessions that explain the cadaver dog alerts.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1248 on: July 18, 2019, 12:20:35 PM »
From Grime's rogatory  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

"In order to establish the accuracy of the dogs' performance with respect to the alerts given when recognizing blood and a body, to what extent are these indications viable in this particular case''
The dogs' alerts are to be considered as an area of interest or possible testing. When specific and reliable this can only be measured for confirmation. In this case in particular, where the dogs alerted there was confirmation by positive results from the forensic examinations. It is the investigators' responsibility to apply the results of the forensic analysis to the suspects, witnesses and crime scenes.

'Based upon the dogs' behaviour, is it possible to distinguish between a strong signal and a weak signal'."

"'Can the dog mix up traces of human odours with others that are non-human''
I cannot comment on what the dogs think. However, from a forensic point of view and from confirmations of scientific testimonies, the dogs appear to be extremely exact. But, forensic confirmation is required in all cases so as to be included as proof. The CSI dog is trained using only human blood. And using a wide spectrum of donors to ensure that the dog does not individualize them.
EVRD used to be trained using swine (pigs) as their odour is the closest to that of humans. But most of the time, however, the dog was trained using the odour of a human cadaver. Operationally, the dog has ignored large amounts of animal remains/bones when locating human decomposition. "



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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1249 on: July 18, 2019, 12:50:38 PM »
Well I have just given you a full quote and I've shown quite clearly he is not saying they "could not be corroborated".
Well obviously they weren't corroborated with a body.  But he hasn't ruled out the potential of anecdotal confessions that explain the cadaver dog alerts.
Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.


thtas crystal clear

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1250 on: July 18, 2019, 01:02:41 PM »
Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.


that's crystal clear

OK that is just part of what he said.  As in the Zapata case when the father confessed the dog alerts became corroborated by an anecdotal statement.
The same this could happen in the McCann case.
With the evidence on hand and the pending forensic results at the time your quote is correct.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1251 on: July 18, 2019, 01:25:04 PM »
OK that is just part of what he said.  As in the Zapata case when the father confessed the dog alerts became corroborated by an anecdotal statement.
The same this could happen in the McCann case.
With the evidence on hand and the pending forensic results at the time your quote is correct.

There was no confession in the lane case but grime still presented the alerts in court as evidence ...that's what's changed

Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1252 on: July 18, 2019, 01:34:54 PM »
There was no confession in the lane case but grime still presented the alerts in court as evidence ...that's what's changed

You make it sound like Grime decided what was and wasn't evidence in the Lane case. He didn't.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1253 on: July 18, 2019, 01:37:10 PM »
You make it sound like Grime decided what was and wasn't evidence in the Lane case. He didn't.
he presented his alerts as evidence

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1254 on: July 18, 2019, 01:37:36 PM »

anecdotal
/ˌanɪkˈdəʊtl/
 Learn to pronounce
adjective
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1255 on: July 18, 2019, 01:58:06 PM »
he presented his alerts as evidence

What did he say to make you think 'he presented his DOG'S alerts as evidence'?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1256 on: July 18, 2019, 02:13:10 PM »
What did he say to make you think 'he presented his DOG'S alerts as evidence'?
Did you hear what the judge said about the alerts.. Of course they were presented as evidence

Offline Angelo222

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1257 on: July 18, 2019, 04:18:04 PM »
When Eddie went to Praia da Luz he hadn't been trained using a cadaver so he didn't know what a true cadaver scent was. Ergo, how could he possibly alert to an unrecognised scent?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1258 on: July 18, 2019, 05:08:35 PM »
Did you hear what the judge said about the alerts.. Of course they were presented as evidence

By whom?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1259 on: July 18, 2019, 05:10:05 PM »
By whom?

Grime presented the cadaver dog evidence to the court