Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[Robittybob1]

Do you think Grime was told where he thought the body had been placed?

https://link.springer.com/epdf/10.1007/s10071-010-0373-2?shared_access_token=Vut12Uai65004q4v-y_Xkve4RwlQNchNByi7wbcMAY4bHsjVym_Rn1xhUadVArBPtORCcCsdqHrjfpKRHjPPjYb5mMYWDvHEbTHOAv6HV6ANjhZim-a0wggN1S-Kvmj0IeYkWH2nWnXHGCrn5yBcmWOTIMVDV7FUMgrm42lcSdY%3D

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[Mr Gray]

Do you think Grime was told where he thought the body had been placed?

https://link.springer.com/epdf/10.1007/s10071-010-0373-2?shared_access_token=Vut12Uai65004q4v-y_Xkve4RwlQNchNByi7wbcMAY4bHsjVym_Rn1xhUadVArBPtORCcCsdqHrjfpKRHjPPjYb5mMYWDvHEbTHOAv6HV6ANjhZim-a0wggN1S-Kvmj0IeYkWH2nWnXHGCrn5yBcmWOTIMVDV7FUMgrm42lcSdY%3D

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absolutely not...ive said before.....I think he looked really hard to find any evidence...he didnt want to miss anything

[Robittybob1]

absolutely not...ive said before.....I think he looked really hard to find any evidence...he didnt want to miss anything

Is that a fault mentioned in that paper?

[Mr Gray]

Is that a fault mentioned in that paper?

what fault...grime wouldnt see that as a fault...I dont see it as  a fault

[Vertigo Swirl]

I don't think any one expected a body to still be behind the settee.

Hilarious, however it was possible that the body could have been buried on Murat’s property which was searched, or in the immediate environs of the holiday apartments.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Whilst that was an interesting and informative read   

it has nothing to do with the deployment of a cadaver dog in Luz 2007

nor does it have anything to do with the deployment of Tito and Muzzy in Luz 2014.

By the way, if that paper had been sent to me now for peer review, I would have rejected it.  That experiment is riddled with holes.

I notice you haven’t chipped in to tell Robitty that he was wrong to say earlier that dogs have a better sense of smell then humans, how very remiss of you!

[ShiningInLuz]

I notice you haven’t chipped in to tell Robitty that he was wrong to say earlier that dogs have a better sense of smell then humans, how very remiss of you!

WTF?

What does that have to do with Davel's link???

Answers on a postage stamp please!!!

[Mr Gray]

Davel - do you accept a dog's sense of smell is better than that of a human?

If it is, what factor would you say it was?

According to sil humans sense of smell is not better than a dog

[Robittybob1]

According to sil humans sense of smell is not better than a dog

Well I'm asking your opinion. But what SIL says is true "human's sense of smell is not better than a dog".

[Robittybob1]

what fault...grime wouldnt see that as a fault...I dont see it as  a fault

In the study any alert was a false alert, or in my words a fault.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

absolutely not...ive said before.....I think he looked really hard to find any evidence...he didnt want to miss anything

And let's not forget:

"It  is  important  to  emphasize  that  this  study  did  not evaluate performance  of dogs when presented  with  scent. Handler-dog  teams  undergo  substantial  training  and  rigorous certification prior to deployment; all teams included in this study confirmed prior successful finds during active deployment.   This   study   only   considered   number   of alerts   under   the   artificially   manipulated   condition   of handler belief of scent when in fact no scent was present."

How would Grime know that there would be no transferable cadaver odour in 4G, for example... and how can he cue Keela to alert at the precise location in the hire car where human cellular material is found?

[Robittybob1]

And let's not forget:

"It  is  important  to  emphasize  that  this  study  did  not evaluate performance  of dogs when presented  with  scent. Handler-dog  teams  undergo  substantial  training  and  rig-orous certification prior to deployment; all teams includedin this study confirmed prior successful finds during activedeployment.   This   study   only   considered   number   of alerts   under   the   artificially   manipulated   condition   of handler belief of scent when in fact no scent was present."

How would Grime know that there would be no transferable cadaver odour in 4G, for example... and how can he cue Keela to alert at the precise location in the hire car where human cellular material is found?

Well he could of course if Amaral had other intelligence indicating something happened behind the couch, and a bag was missing from the wardrobe and he had advised Grime of the theory.  When did Amaral first notice the bag was missing?

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Well he could of course if Amaral had other intelligence indicating something happened behind the couch, and a bag was missing from the wardrobe and he had advised Grime of the theory.  When did Amaral first notice the bag was missing?

I’ve never managed to find anything reliable with regards to that bag! But I’ve not researched it very much. There’s a limit to how many paths a person can tread :-)

I don’t believe handler cues explain can safely explain away all 17 alerts. I don’t believe Grime was unprofessional and I don’t think anyone knew where the human cellular material was to be found.

[G-Unit]

for those who think the dogs are tested...this is what a scientific study and report looks like...and an interesting topic re false alerts and handler cuing.

https://link.springer.com/epdf/10.1007/s10071-010-0373-2?shared_access_token=Vut12Uai65004q4v-y_Xkve4RwlQNchNByi7wbcMAY4bHsjVym_Rn1xhUadVArBPtORCcCsdqHrjfpKRHjPPjYb5mMYWDvHEbTHOAv6HV6ANjhZim-a0wggN1S-Kvmj0IeYkWH2nWnXHGCrn5yBcmWOTIMVDV7FUMgrm42lcSdY%3D

How do you know that Grime and his dogs were never tested in a similar manner?

[Mr Gray]

How do you know that Grime and his dogs were never tested in a similar manner?

The only thing we have heard from grime is anecdotal testing....