Who killed Bambi ?

[Caroline]

But others who can't recall and/or change WS's etc can? 

In the absence of digitally recorded info provided by independent witnesses it's all unreliable.  Roll on 10 years after the Bamber case and this is what reliable tel evidence looks like (taken from Rettendon case CoA doc):

The telephone evidence

At trial the prosecution adduced detailed evidence of telephone calls to and from land lines and mobile phones which belonged to Nicholls, Steele, Whomes, Tate and his associates. The telephone companies provided details as to the time and duration of calls. In addition, this was one of the first cases in which the position of the makers and recipients of mobile phone calls was identified by the location of the cell sites through which the phones had sent or received the call. There was a great deal of factual and expert evidence on this subject at the trial. We shall have to return to it later as it gave rise to one of the bases upon which the Criminal Cases Review Commission referred the matter to this Court. At the moment it is sufficient to summarise some of what it established. It included telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele on 6 December while Nicholls was still in the Sunbury area in the middle of the day. It also established contact between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes at 14.11. Around 14.30 there were calls from a telephone kiosk near a public house close to where Whomes was working. Two of the calls were to the mobile phone of Tucker and one (a missed call) was to the mobile phone of Tate. At 14.32 there was a call to a telephone kiosk in Basildon, close to where Tate lived. About 20 minutes later there was a call from the same telephone kiosk to Nicholls' mobile phone. There was other telephone contact between Nicholls and Steele, and Steele and Whomes in the course of the afternoon. At 17.03 a call was made from a telephone kiosk near The Halfway House public house on the A127 to Tate's mobile phone. Whomes telephoned Steele via the mobile phones at 17.12. At 18.03 and 18.09 calls were recorded between Steele's mobile phone and that of Whomes. At 18.44 there was a call of almost 4 minutes duration from an address in Basildon where Sarah Saunders was and the mobile phone of Tate. The case for the prosecution was that it was the call overheard by Steele as described by Nicholls at a time when Steele and Tate were in or near the Range Rover in the farm track at Rettenden. That call ended at about 18.48. At 18.59 two short calls were made from Whomes' mobile phone to that of Nicholls. The case for the prosecution was that they, or one of them (they lasted one and four seconds respectively) included the 'pick-up' call. Although there was no medical or scientific evidence as to the time of death of the three deceased, the case for the prosecution was that the murders took place between 18.48 and 18.59 and that the telephone evidence supported this. It is a fact that the mobile phones of the deceased men did not make or receive effective calls after that time. Although their bodies were not found until the following day, they had been expected home before 20.00hrs because they had social engagements. Both Tate and Tucker died with their mobile phones in their hands.

Yip because they had no reason to lie.

[Caroline]

What do you think caused JB's clothes to become blood stained? 

What, if any, forensic evidence do you think was lost through the destroyed bedding?

What would be the purpose of JB, or anyone, hanging on to his deceased parents clothes?

Blood from staging the bodies.
I didn't express any opinion on the bedding other than it was burned in the firepit.
None - BUT unless you're a callous and cold fish, you don't load them onto a trailer and burn them in the farm fire pit used for burning rubbish - the week after their murder while you're supposed to be grieving!

[Caroline]

The most reliable WS's are those made immediately after the event not those made a month later.

Reliable? No, those made later by JB show he was lying because he just can't remember what he said during an event that SHOULD be etched on his brain.

[Myster]

The most reliable WS's are those made immediately after the event not those made a month later. 

Reliable? No, those made later by JB show he was lying because he just can't remember what he said during an event that SHOULD be etched on his brain.

From JB's interview 10th Sept. '85.  He couldn't remember who he phoned first... Julie or the police.

[Myster]

The most reliable WS's are those made immediately after the event not those made a month later. 

Yet in his police statement made at the cottage on the 7th. August '85 only hours after the event, he failed to mention ringing Julie at 10pm to say "The crime will have to be tonight" or more succinctly "It's tonight or never", and that she might hear from him later.   How extraordinary was that ?!!

[Myster]

And if the kitchen phone was off the hook as per CS photo, then it would have been impossible to ring Chelmsford police "immediately" afterwards as he claimed!   So in September he changed his story yet again to say that he faffed about for 10 minutes looking up their number.

[Caroline]

From JB's interview 10th Sept. '85.  He couldn't remember who he phoned first... Julie or the police.

So he said.

[Caroline]

And if the kitchen phone was off the hook as per CS photo, then it would have been impossible to ring Chelmsford police "immediately" afterwards as he claimed!   So in September he changed his story yet again to say that he faffed about for 10 minutes looking up their number.

Yes, he had time to think about the guffs he made in his first WS.

[Caroline]

Yet in his police statement made at the cottage on the 7th. August '85 only hours after the event, he failed to mention ringing Julie at 10pm to say "The crime will have to be tonight" or more succinctly "It's tonight or never", and that she might hear from him later.   How extraordinary was that ?!!

Or that he had a bath - something he now recalls.

[APRIL]

Or that he had a bath - something he now recalls.

Odd, is it not, that whilst he remains so uncertain of the sequence of events after the alleged call from his father, he clearly recalls watching programmes about punks and miscarriages prior. Given the horror of those events, I find this surprising. He rather overdoes it by claiming he "could hear the dog whining in a distressed manner" I'd have thought that whining in dogs was an indication of their distress.

[Caroline]

Odd, is it not, that whilst he remains so uncertain of the sequence of events after the alleged call from his father, he clearly recalls watching programmes about punks and miscarriages prior. Given the horror of those events, I find this surprising. He rather overdoes it by claiming he "could hear the dog whining in a distressed manner" I'd have thought that whining in dogs was an indication of their distress.

He mentioned the programmes because they are time stamped. An innocent man would have simply said he watched TV - clearly the progammes (and the alleged call) were forming his alibi.

[Holly Goodhead]

Yip because they had no reason to lie.

Only JM completed a WS on 8th Aug whereby she phoned the house from JB's cottage in the presence of AE and EP in an attempt to establish the time of JB's call with her housemates.  She was told 3.30am and stated this in her WS of 8th Aug

How do we know the other witnesses/housemates were not coerced by DS Jones either on the basis JB was responsible eg SC could not have shot herself twice as per JB's interview (at odds with pathological evidence) and/or coercion on the basis JM and SB acknowledge illegal drugs were used (JB/JM at a min and stored at the shared house for distribution around uni campus)?  DS Jones turned up unannounced supposedly to check on SB's alarm clock.  How do we know he didn't 'find' any drugs? 

There was no reason for any of the housemates to go to any effort to accurately record the time.  They made WS's as follows:

JM - 8th Aug - Told by housemate(s), believed to be Helen Eaton, via tel call from JB's cottage time was 3.30am.  This all happened in the presence of AE and EP.
SB - 10th Sep - 3.15am but may have been inaccurate as she supposedly kept her alarm clock 10 mins fast.  Then on 19th Dec she made a further WS adamant that the time wasn't 3.15am but 3.12am.  Apparently she was nervous upon making her first WS and this is the reason she messed up and realised she was 3 mins out! 
HE - As above originally told JM 3.30am on 8th Aug but when completed her WS on 11th Sept stated 3am.
Joanne Woad - In her WS of 16th Sept she stated 2am.  Then on 3rd Oct she made a further WS stating she could only recall the '2' on the alarm clock and therefore it could have been anywhere between 2am and 2.59am.
Douglas Dale made a WS on 9th Sept where he stated 3 am.

Totally unreliable imo whereby the above witnesses were coerced into providing times in an attempt to show JB calling JM before his claim of a tel call from NB. 

In the absence of digitally recorded info by independent parties ie telecomm providers it's all hopelessly unreliable.

(Source: Points 290 - 330 CoA doc)

[Holly Goodhead]

Blood from staging the bodies.
I didn't express any opinion on the bedding other than it was burned in the firepit.
None - BUT unless you're a callous and cold fish, you don't load them onto a trailer and burn them in the farm fire pit used for burning rubbish - the week after their murder while you're supposed to be grieving!

There's no evidence any of the victims were moved at soc prior to police entering.  Once police entered there's strong evidence SC was moved between first observation at approx 7.30am and soc images taken at approx 10.30am as per A/PS Woodcock's WS and forensic scientist Martyn Ismail.  The former stated SC's head was raised against NB's bedside cabinet and the latter said SC's head would have fallen back against bedside cabinet based on the position of her body and nightdress ad depicted in soc images.

People grieve in different ways eg AE taking her young daughter to WHF to remake the twins beds less than a week after the tragedy.

[Holly Goodhead]

Reliable? No, those made later by JB show he was lying because he just can't remember what he said during an event that SHOULD be etched on his brain.

He was no doubt suffering PTSD!

[Holly Goodhead]

From JB's interview 10th Sept. '85.  He couldn't remember who he phoned first... Julie or the police.

As he said his first WS is likely to be the most reliable.