Author Topic: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?  (Read 1281 times)

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Offline John

Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« on: January 16, 2019, 01:35:28 PM »
The question is, "Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?"

Personally I believe it would be devisive and achieve nothing in respect of any withdrawal agreement.

We had our opportunity to vote in 2016 and a majority voted to leave the EU, it is now the job of the Prime Minister to deliver that result any way she can.

A second referendum or peoples vote would simply muddy the waters even more. If remainers won by a small margin it could be argued that we should have the best of three, it undermines referendums totally.

Those who seek a further vote simply don't understand the issues IMO.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 01:37:31 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 01:45:47 PM »
I don't support a second referendum, not because I think it is undemocratic (I don't) but like John I think it will just prolong the agony and provoke even greaterd divisiveness.  Leavers have to be given exactly what they want (no deal, apparently) and the rest of us simply have to suck it up and hope for the best. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline John

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 02:04:42 PM »
I don't support a second referendum, not because I think it is undemocratic (I don't) but like John I think it will just prolong the agony and provoke even greaterd divisiveness.  Leavers have to be given exactly what they want (no deal, apparently) and the rest of us simply have to suck it up and hope for the best.

In most divorces the couple separate before the agreement and final settlement, I suggest Brexit should be the same.  Get out now on 29th March and do the deals afterwards.  It is on this basis that the EU is now planning ahead in order to keep disruption to a minimum.  I suggest the UK get on with it too!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 02:06:55 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 03:37:22 PM »
In most divorces the couple separate before the agreement and final settlement, I suggest Brexit should be the same.  Get out now on 29th March and do the deals afterwards.  It is on this basis that the EU is now planning ahead in order to keep disruption to a minimum.  I suggest the UK get on with it too!

There's no choice as this part of Brexit was only ever about the divorce settlement, despite what certain politicians said (Liam Fox?) about trade deals being negotiated even before the official D-Day.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 03:38:36 PM »
In most divorces the couple separate before the agreement and final settlement, I suggest Brexit should be the same.  Get out now on 29th March and do the deals afterwards.  It is on this basis that the EU is now planning ahead in order to keep disruption to a minimum.  I suggest the UK get on with it too!
Surely the separation process began with the Leave vote in the Referendum, triggering Article 50 was the Decree Nisi, and 29th March the Decree Absolut?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2019, 03:44:22 PM »
I've listened to arguments for and against a 2nd referendum. The only aspects that make me hesitate is whether enough people have actually understood the implications, plus whether a no-deal is on the table or not.

IMO a no-deal would be a disaster.

I don't see how people could vote on 3 choices as it would make a clear majority less likely and I'm not convinced that the "just get on with it" or the Dunkirk romantic brigades would take the time to study what the implications are.

Offline Sunny

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2019, 03:45:43 PM »
Surely the separation process began with the Leave vote in the Referendum, triggering Article 50 was the Decree Nisi, and 29th March the Decree Absolut?
Loth as I am ever to agree with you VS (but I do).  8)><(

However I don't think it will happen. Parliament won't let it.
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Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2019, 03:55:54 PM »
In most divorces the couple separate before the agreement and final settlement, I suggest Brexit should be the same.  Get out now on 29th March and do the deals afterwards.  It is on this basis that the EU is now planning ahead in order to keep disruption to a minimum.  I suggest the UK get on with it too!

AFAIK, a divorce settlement is about the legal and financial issues (who gets custody of the kids and the dog, what happens to joint assets and who gets to keep the family albums). Agreements about whether or not to show up to Aunt Mabel's 95th birthday bash tend be sorted out later, don't they?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2019, 03:58:45 PM »
Loth as I am ever to agree with you VS (but I do).  8)><(

However I don't think it will happen. Parliament won't let it.
Ahh, common ground.  You'll be inviting me over for tea next. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Angelo222

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2019, 04:47:09 PM »
I've listened to arguments for and against a 2nd referendum. The only aspects that make me hesitate is whether enough people have actually understood the implications, plus whether a no-deal is on the table or not.

IMO a no-deal would be a disaster.

I don't see how people could vote on 3 choices as it would make a clear majority less likely and I'm not convinced that the "just get on with it" or the Dunkirk romantic brigades would take the time to study what the implications are.

They said not joining the Euro would be a disaster, it wasn't, it was a saving grace.  All this scare mongering amounts to very little in the end.  There will be winners and losers inevitably...that's life.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 04:55:23 PM by Angelo222 »
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2019, 07:13:06 PM »
The question is, "Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?"

Personally I believe it would be devisive and achieve nothing in respect of any withdrawal agreement.

We had our opportunity to vote in 2016 and a majority voted to leave the EU, it is now the job of the Prime Minister to deliver that result any way she can.

A second referendum or peoples vote would simply muddy the waters even more. If remainers won by a small margin it could be argued that we should have the best of three, it undermines referendums totally.

Those who seek a further vote simply don't understand the issues IMO.

We voted on it once with the result that the majority want the UK to leave the EU.
I think they are mad and that my generation cocked the vote up. Any one over the age of 55 should not have been allowed to vote on this matter (imo); nevertheless that's where we are at. Simple enough.
Why should we have another referendum at the behest of a load of politicians who seem incapable of understanding the result of the first one?.
If you are a cynic, or Henning Wehn, you would say "they told you a pack of lies that you believed first time round; second time round they will tell another load of lies you will believe and you will vote the same way again".

Tune in when the dust dies down. Meantime May will remain PM as no one else has the stomach for the job.

A few years down the track I see Sajid and Chukka being leaders of the two main parties.
Well Sajid seems to be making the first moves in that direction.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". .Sarah Bailey

Offline Sunny

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2019, 08:28:11 PM »
Theresa May has survived the vote of no confidence with 325 votes for 306 against. She won with a percentage of just under 50.4% of the votes.  Perhaps we should ask the MPs to vote again, a sort of MPs "peoples vote". @)(++(* 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-live-no-confidence-motion-13863046
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Online G-Unit

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 10:31:55 AM »
I agree that another vote by the people would just lead to more arguments and accusations. The result was unexpected but it was a result. The ones preventing the implementation of the result are our politicians. That may be their prerogative, but they are making a laughing stock of our country and of themselves.

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 11:31:07 AM »
I agree that another vote by the people would just lead to more arguments and accusations. The result was unexpected but it was a result. The ones preventing the implementation of the result are our politicians. That may be their prerogative, but they are making a laughing stock of our country and of themselves.

I'd hope that more people have woken up to what the various options entail, in which case more people could make a better informed decision this time.

As May's deal is off the table (and I very much doubt that the EU would agree to anything beyond a cosmetic tweak of it), that leaves no-deal (which is sheer madness IMO) or no-Brexit.

An issue with a new referendum would be the need for an extension, which would require sound reasons (and no, Boris et al., the EU is already fed up with Brexit).

The only other option would be to revoke Article 50, and it has recently been established that that can be done unilaterally. The problem with that is that the pro-Brexit factions won't be happy.

If only Cameron and co. had done their homework BEFORE calling for the referendum, it might not have been put on the table in the first place.

According to some articles I've read, the whole idea wasn't about improving the UK, but about shutting up the right-wing of the Conservative party.

Offline Sunny

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 01:07:13 PM »
I'd hope that more people have woken up to what the various options entail, in which case more people could make a better informed decision this time.

As May's deal is off the table (and I very much doubt that the EU would agree to anything beyond a cosmetic tweak of it), that leaves no-deal (which is sheer madness IMO) or no-Brexit.

An issue with a new referendum would be the need for an extension, which would require sound reasons (and no, Boris et al., the EU is already fed up with Brexit).

The only other option would be to revoke Article 50, and it has recently been established that that can be done unilaterally. The problem with that is that the pro-Brexit factions won't be happy.

If only Cameron and co. had done their homework BEFORE calling for the referendum, it might not have been put on the table in the first place.

According to some articles I've read, the whole idea wasn't about improving the UK, but about shutting up the right-wing of the Conservative party.

I believe you are partially correct Carana however the fact that millions were voting UKIP probably had something to do with it as UKIP were corroding the Conservative vote as I remember.
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