Author Topic: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?  (Read 1290 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2019, 10:13:14 AM »
If thats the case why are most leavers against a second referendum and most remainers for it?

I don't understand why Leavers are wary of a 2nd ref either...

My only concern about one is whether people are better informed now than they were 2 .5 years ago. If they suffer from acute Brexititis or simply believe whatever their favourite politician spouts as gospel to be accurate ( la Trump fan-base) or if no one is keeping an eye on last-minute shenanigans ( la Cambridge Analytica), then the UK could end up falling off the cliff, unless no-deal is taken off the options.

Online G-Unit

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2019, 10:45:56 AM »
I don't understand why Leavers are wary of a 2nd ref either...

My only concern about one is whether people are better informed now than they were 2 .5 years ago. If they suffer from acute Brexititis or simply believe whatever their favourite politician spouts as gospel to be accurate ( la Trump fan-base) or if no one is keeping an eye on last-minute shenanigans ( la Cambridge Analytica), then the UK could end up falling off the cliff, unless no-deal is taken off the options.

I don't care if we leave or remain, but I believe democracy should be respected. The only politician who seems to agree with me is Theresa May.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Online Davel

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2019, 10:46:46 AM »
One may or may not  agree with Merkel's government's stance on accepting an admittedly large number of refugees fleeing from war.

But what does that have to do with the UK?

Merkel is one of the most powerful people in the EU..... She didn't just welcome large numbers.... But seemed to advocate an open door policy.. Once given asylum do those asylum seekers then have freedom of movement... That's what it has to do with the UK and I think it terrified UK citizens.... It has also encouraged more to Cross the med..
I don't think they were all fleeing war... Do you.... Mostly young single men
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Offline Sunny

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2019, 10:52:28 AM »
Merkel is one of the most powerful people in the EU..... She didn't just welcome large numbers.... But seemed to advocate an open door policy.. Once given asylum do those asylum seekers then have freedom of movement... That's what it has to do with the UK and I think it terrified UK citizens.... It has also encouraged more to Cross the med..
I don't think they were all fleeing war... Do you.... Mostly young single men

I would say that she WAS one of the most powerful people in the EU but since giving in her resignation I imagine she is less important now.

I am under the impression that true asylum seekers were to ask for residency in the first European country they entered.  Which does make me question why we have people in inflatable dinghies trying to cross the channel to get to us.

Of course, with this in mind, Germany is surrounded by other European countries so perhaps she thought they wouldn't get many immigrants.
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Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2019, 11:31:19 AM »
I would say that she WAS one of the most powerful people in the EU but since giving in her resignation I imagine she is less important now.

I am under the impression that true asylum seekers were to ask for residency in the first European country they entered.  Which does make me question why we have people in inflatable dinghies trying to cross the channel to get to us.

Of course, with this in mind, Germany is surrounded by other European countries so perhaps she thought they wouldn't get many immigrants.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/understanding-migration-and-asylum-european-union

Trying to verify, but the UK may have (perceived) better conditions for refugees, or simply some may be able to prove close family already within the UK.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 11:36:05 AM by Carana »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2019, 12:32:03 PM »
I don't care if we leave or remain, but I believe democracy should be respected. The only politician who seems to agree with me is Theresa May.
Why don't you care?  Is it because you won't be around for much longer and so are unlikely to be affected?   Do you really not care how decisions made now will affect the lives of your children and their children? 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2019, 12:34:48 PM »
https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/understanding-migration-and-asylum-european-union

Trying to verify, but the UK may have (perceived) better conditions for refugees, or simply some may be able to prove close family already within the UK.
The number of "asylum seekers" trying to enter Britain is a tiny fraction of those that have entered other countries in Europe.  This latest brouhaha, with Home Secretary having to cancel his holiday to attend the "cross channel crisis" was making a massive mountain out of a tiny molehill IMO.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2019, 01:12:31 PM »
The number of "asylum seekers" trying to enter Britain is a tiny fraction of those that have entered other countries in Europe.  This latest brouhaha, with Home Secretary having to cancel his holiday to attend the "cross channel crisis" was making a massive mountain out of a tiny molehill IMO.

Agree. Seems more of a PR exercise than anything else.

A bit of background reading for people of all flavours:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/152/immigration-policy

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-migration-eu-leaders-fail-again-to-agree-policy/

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/understanding-migration-and-asylum-european-union


Online Davel

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2019, 01:13:10 PM »
The number of "asylum seekers" trying to enter Britain is a tiny fraction of those that have entered other countries in Europe.  This latest brouhaha, with Home Secretary having to cancel his holiday to attend the "cross channel crisis" was making a massive mountain out of a tiny molehill IMO.

I think we need to maintain and be seen to maintain our borders
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Online Davel

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The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2019, 01:23:08 PM »
I think we need to maintain and be seen to maintain our borders
We do, but we don't need to overreact about perceived threats that aren't really there. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2019, 01:27:39 PM »
Perhaps you think we, should have an open door policy as merkel seemed to advocate
Ironically Brexit may well mean we end up with more "asylum seekers" than whilst we are in the EU, as we will no longer have the Dublin regulation which allows us to return these people to the first European country they registered at.  Also, how vigilant are France going to be about stopping asylum seekers gaining illegal entry to the UK post Brexit?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Davel

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2019, 01:35:14 PM »
Ironically Brexit may well mean we end up with more "asylum seekers" than whilst we are in the EU, as we will no longer have the Dublin regulation which allows us to return these people to the first European country they registered at.  Also, how vigilant are France going to be about stopping asylum seekers gaining illegal entry to the UK post Brexit?

I wonder how many have been returned
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2019, 01:49:17 PM »
I wonder how many have been returned
No idea.  I do know that very many cheap (ie: 5) carwash businesses the length and breadth of the country are run by dodgy characters who employ illegal immigrants at below national minimum wage, often actually on a slave labour basis and that Brits seem quite happy to turn a blind eye to this in order to get a cheap carwash.  We are complicit in so many illegal activities in this country when it suits us, and we should really get to grips with criminal gangs who exploit illegal immigrants, asylum seekers etc (in carwashes, brothels, drug distribution or whatever it may be)  before worrying too much about a few dinghys full of Syrians arriving at the White Cliffs of Dover.   We should also look to ourselves to ensure that we are not complicit in funding these criminal gangs, by ensuring w do not take our business to them.  My parents for example who are both hugely pro Brexit and anti immigrant but are also great fans of their local Eastern European dodgy car wash outfit in town at which several "lovely, smiley and polite" Bulgarians valet their car inside and out, top to bottom for half an hour for less than the price of 10 cigarettes.  I think my parents are hypocrites of the highest order, but they don't see it that way.  No, they see these people as happy, happy, happy in their work, and me as a do goody virtue signaller!  LOL.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Davel

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2019, 02:46:15 PM »
No idea.  I do know that very many cheap (ie: 5) carwash businesses the length and breadth of the country are run by dodgy characters who employ illegal immigrants at below national minimum wage, often actually on a slave labour basis and that Brits seem quite happy to turn a blind eye to this in order to get a cheap carwash.  We are complicit in so many illegal activities in this country when it suits us, and we should really get to grips with criminal gangs who exploit illegal immigrants, asylum seekers etc (in carwashes, brothels, drug distribution or whatever it may be)  before worrying too much about a few dinghys full of Syrians arriving at the White Cliffs of Dover.   We should also look to ourselves to ensure that we are not complicit in funding these criminal gangs, by ensuring w do not take our business to them.  My parents for example who are both hugely pro Brexit and anti immigrant but are also great fans of their local Eastern European dodgy car wash outfit in town at which several "lovely, smiley and polite" Bulgarians valet their car inside and out, top to bottom for half an hour for less than the price of 10 cigarettes.  I think my parents are hypocrites of the highest order, but they don't see it that way.  No, they see these people as happy, happy, happy in their work, and me as a do goody virtue signaller!  LOL.

It's not just a few dingys... If it was it wouldnt be a problem...
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it