Author Topic: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?  (Read 3123 times)

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Online G-Unit

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2019, 01:34:19 PM »
I'd hope that more people have woken up to what the various options entail, in which case more people could make a better informed decision this time.

As May's deal is off the table (and I very much doubt that the EU would agree to anything beyond a cosmetic tweak of it), that leaves no-deal (which is sheer madness IMO) or no-Brexit.

An issue with a new referendum would be the need for an extension, which would require sound reasons (and no, Boris et al., the EU is already fed up with Brexit).

The only other option would be to revoke Article 50, and it has recently been established that that can be done unilaterally. The problem with that is that the pro-Brexit factions won't be happy.

If only Cameron and co. had done their homework BEFORE calling for the referendum, it might not have been put on the table in the first place.

According to some articles I've read, the whole idea wasn't about improving the UK, but about shutting up the right-wing of the Conservative party.

Why do people assume that voters will vote differently if only they are given the 'correct' information? It's a matter of opinion which information is 'correct' and there's no reason to believe that voters want to change their minds.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2019, 07:21:33 PM »
Why do people assume that voters will vote differently if only they are given the 'correct' information? It's a matter of opinion which information is 'correct' and there's no reason to believe that voters want to change their minds.
If that’s the case why are most leavers against a second referendum and most remainers for it?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Sunny

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2019, 08:39:06 PM »
If that’s the case why are most leavers against a second referendum and most remainers for it?

I didn't vote leave but as I have mentioned I have changed my mind so it may be 17million and one now. However I can understand leavers being annoyed. The referendum was supposed to be once in a lifetime not once a year or so.

I wonder what will happen if this "peoples vote" points to leave again? Best of 5?
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Online G-Unit

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2019, 08:53:35 PM »
I didn't vote leave but as I have mentioned I have changed my mind so it may be 17million and one now. However I can understand leavers being annoyed. The referendum was supposed to be once in a lifetime not once a year or so.

I wonder what will happen if this "peoples vote" points to leave again? Best of 5?

Those oh so clever poliyicians still think they can convince people to 'get it right'. Their arrogance is breathtaking.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2019, 09:01:59 PM »
I didn't vote leave but as I have mentioned I have changed my mind so it may be 17million and one now. However I can understand leavers being annoyed. The referendum was supposed to be once in a lifetime not once a year or so.

I wonder what will happen if this "peoples vote" points to leave again? Best of 5?
It wouldn’t be a second referendum, it would be a first referendum regarding the type of Brexit people actually want.  G-Unit reckons all leavers want the same thing.  I dispute that.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Erngath

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2019, 09:13:45 PM »
A very good New Year to all.
I voted to remain as did the majority of folk here in Scotland.
I have no faith at all in the Westminster Government.
I can only see this whole debacle leading to a strengthening of the vote for independence.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 09:35:41 AM by Erngath »
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2019, 08:42:20 AM »
I believe you are partially correct Carana however the fact that millions were voting UKIP probably had something to do with it as UKIP were corroding the Conservative vote as I remember.

Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between UKIP and the far right wing of the Conservative party. UKIP seems to be more overtly xenophobic and racist, otherwise much of a muchness.

Online G-Unit

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2019, 09:27:53 AM »
Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between UKIP and the far right wing of the Conservative party. UKIP seems to be more overtly xenophobic and racist, otherwise much of a muchness.

I think a lot of people were voting for Farage rather than for UKIP. Since he left the party it's dead in the water. Farage is poised to return to canpaifning if another referendum is arranged.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2019, 01:21:33 PM »
I think a lot of people were voting for Farage rather than for UKIP. Since he left the party it's dead in the water. Farage is poised to return to canpaifning if another referendum is arranged.


Farage in December:
Speaking at a Leave Means Leave rally in London, he “implored” Brexiteers to prepare for another campaign, suggesting he expected a fresh referendum within months.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-nigel-farage-ukip-leave-remain-peoples-vote-final-say-theresa-may-deal-jo-johnson-a8685346.html

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2019, 01:38:55 PM »
I despair...

James O’Brien and LBC listeners alike were left in disbelief when this caller said he voted Brexit because he wants Britain to retain the three-pin plug.

Robert from Rochester originally phoned up LBC to rail against the idea of a second referendum.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-caller-voted-brexit-three-pin-plugs/

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2019, 05:52:35 PM »
I despair...

James O’Brien and LBC listeners alike were left in disbelief when this caller said he voted Brexit because he wants Britain to retain the three-pin plug.

Robert from Rochester originally phoned up LBC to rail against the idea of a second referendum.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-caller-voted-brexit-three-pin-plugs/
Now if the EU had said we have to adopt those two prong thingys by law I probably would have voted leave too.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2019, 09:37:26 AM »
Why do people assume that voters will vote differently if only they are given the 'correct' information? It's a matter of opinion which information is 'correct' and there's no reason to believe that voters want to change their minds.

There's no way of knowing how many, but some people voted for Brexit believing that the NHS really would get £350m a week, others were terrified at the idea of millions of Turks suddenly invading the UK as Turkey was presented as about to become a EU member. *

Both of those are about as likely as me becoming the next pope and the politicians responsible have since laughed it off or dodged the question when challenged during interviews.

That doesn't even touch on the brainwashing with half-truths in the (mainly) tabloid media over decades. I know people who still believe Boris's bendy-banana myth.

* Links as I find them... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/18/boris-johnson-falsely-denies-issuing-turkey-warning-in-brexit-campaign
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 10:01:37 AM by Carana »

Offline Davel

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2019, 09:47:47 AM »
There's no way of knowing how many, but some people voted for Brexit believing that the NHS really would get £350m a week, others were terrified at the idea of millions of Turks suddenly invading the UK as Turkey was presented as about to become a EU member.

Both of those are about as likely as me becoming the next pope and the politicians responsible have since laughed it off or dodged the question when challenged during interviews.

That doesn't even touch on the brainwashing with half-truths in the (mainly) tabloid media over decades. I know people who still believe Boris's bendy-banana myth.

I think that human tsunami of "refugees" marching towards Germany having been invited by Merkel may have had some effect...no one imagined that
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Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2019, 09:50:41 AM »
I didn't vote leave but as I have mentioned I have changed my mind so it may be 17million and one now. However I can understand leavers being annoyed. The referendum was supposed to be once in a lifetime not once a year or so.

I wonder what will happen if this "peoples vote" points to leave again? Best of 5?

What makes you tend towards voting Leave now if you had a chance?

Offline Carana

Re: Would a second referendum or peoples vote achieve anything?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2019, 09:54:40 AM »
I think that human tsunami of "refugees" marching towards Germany having been invited by Merkel may have had some effect...no one imagined that

One may or may not  agree with Merkel's government's stance on accepting an admittedly large number of refugees fleeing from war.

But what does that have to do with the UK?