The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm

[faithlilly]

Maybe you haven't looked at the evidence which was provided by several members some time ago where it has been shown from the evidence that Gerry could not have been down the town at 10pm.  Do try and keep up Faithlilly!

I am 'keeping up' Angelo and I will repeat, there is not one independent witness ( the McCanns friends would not be deemed independent for this purpose ) who categorically puts Gerry at the tapas table at the time of the Smith sighting. That is a fact. Whether he was the carrier or not is another matter entirely, I am simply stating that it remains a possibility.

[Angelo222]

I am 'keeping up' Angelo and I will repeat, there is not one independent witness ( the McCanns friends would not be deemed independent for this purpose ) who categorically puts Gerry at the tapas table at the time of the Smith sighting. That is a fact. Whether he was the carrier or not is another matter entirely, I am simply stating that it remains a possibility.

Well you are totally wrong and if you bothered to look at the other thread you would see your error.  I repeat, the statements of the waiters who attended the table evidences the fact that Gerry McCann never strayed far from the Club.  In fact, even Mr Amaral stated that Gerry McCann could not have been the man the Smiths saw.


I will also point out that intentionally promoting factually incorrect information is contrary to the forum rules so I will afford you an opportunity to withdraw the erroneous claim you are making or prove it by other means.

[AnneGuedes]

I will also point out that intentionally promoting factually incorrect information is contrary to the forum rules so I will you an opportunity to withdraw the erroneous claim you are making.

This is an unjustified and then unacceptable accusation, Angelo. I'm not sure why you're making it. There's no fact here and Mr Amaral made the mistake not to ask the TP7 whether Mr McCann was at the table or not. None of them said it directly.  No waiter testified that Mr McCann was sitting at the table at 10.
The AG, who examined all statements et documents confirms that Mr McCann's presence at the table at the time of the Smith's sighting, notes that the Tapas employees neither confirmed nor denied Mr McCann was there, which means they're not sure.
The only fact is this : they don't know.

[DCI]

AG Report.

This witness was heard again by the Drogheda Irish police on 23-01-08, having been shown a video clip of Gerald McCann’s departure by plane carrying one of the twins. This witness maintains his belief that judging by the posture, there seemed to be a probability of 60-80% that the person seen by him at about 21.55 at the previously mentioned place, was Madeleine’s father.
At this time, Gerald’s presence at the restaurant was confirmed by his friends and has not been denied by restaurant employees.

Another error in translations

She'd barely entered the apartment when she noticed that her daughter Kate had disappeared, not being in her bed nor in any other location inside the residence and that the bedroom's window and shutters were open;

[faithlilly]

Well you are totally wrong and if you bothered to look at the other thread you would see your error.  I repeat, the statements of the waiters who attended the table evidences the fact that Gerry McCann never strayed far from the Club.  In fact, even Mr Amaral stated that Gerry McCann could not have been the man the Smiths saw.


I will also point out that intentionally promoting factually incorrect information is contrary to the forum rules so I will afford you an opportunity to withdraw the erroneous claim you are making or prove it by other means.

I am certainly not withdrawing my claim and the extract blow rebut your claim that Amaral believed the man seen by Smith wasn't Gerry McCann.

From 'The Truth of the Lie :

'When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, "sent," the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who - if he was the guilty party - would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat's house, but west in the direction of the beach. '

Sounds to me very much like Amaral believed the man seen by the Smiths was Gerry. How about you ?

As to the waiters, if they did categorically state that Gerry was at the tapas table between 9.45 and 10.15 you will be able to provide evidence of it, it's as simple as that.

[Benice]

I am 'keeping up' Angelo and I will repeat, there is not one independent witness ( the McCanns friends would not be deemed independent for this purpose ) who categorically puts Gerry at the tapas table at the time of the Smith sighting. That is a fact. Whether he was the carrier or not is another matter entirely, I am simply stating that it remains a possibility.

Nine meals ordered - nine meals served is a bit of a clue.  When someone was missing from the table when his meal was served (Russell) -  it was taken back to the kitchen until he came back.     So Gerry was obviously there or the waiters would have noticed his empty chair when they brought out the different courses.

Do you really think people would be able to sit and enjoy a meal only minutes after being told by Gerry that Madeleine was dead and that when he'd finished his meal his plan was to go off into PdL and dispose of her body?     And no-one turned a hair?    They just carried on eating and chatting as if nothing had happened?

Really Faith  - the whole idea is just too preposterous.






 

[John]

By way of clarification, the issue of Gerry McCanns presence at the tapas bar at10pm was indeed previously covered in great depth some weeks ago. It was proven beyond any doubt that Gerry was at the table at 10pm.  Unless Mr McCann has a doppelgänger there is no other explanation.

When Kate came running back from the apartment a few minutes after 10pm, it was to Gerry that she addressed her comments.  It was Gerry who took the initiative and organised a search so let's do stop this nonsense.  The man the Smiths saw could not have been Gerry McCann!

[Benice]

Have you got a quote for this theory, Benice ? I must have missed it, because I have no idea Faithlilly wondered whether Mr McCann had plotted with Ms Tanner when they all were having dinner.
I personally can't figure out that Ms Tanner "agreed to lie", but, after having watched the McCann "reconstruction" and the pressure upon Ms Tanner about the side of the street, I can imagine her being manipulated about the time and place of her sighting.

Anne, Faith has said quite a few times that in her opinion Gerry could have been the man the Smith's saw - and that there is no proof that he was at the Tapas at 10.00 o.clock.   Faith has also given reasons why IHO Gerry needed Jane Tanner to lie.   Both on this thread and on another recent thread.

If I'm wrong I'm sure Faithlilly will let me know.

[John]

I will also add this sentence from the PJ final Report to the AG.

"It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant."

www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

[John]

Anne, Faith has said quite a few times that in her opinion Gerry could have been the man the Smith's saw - and that there is no proof that he was at the Tapas at 10.00 o.clock.   Faith has also given reasons why IHO Gerry needed Jane Tanner to lie.   Both on this thread and on another recent thread.

If I'm wrong I'm sure Faithlilly will let me know.

Faith and Anne obviously think they know more than the Portuguese Police do.  Says it all really!

[faithlilly]

By way of clarification, the issue of Gerry McCanns presence at the tapas bar at10pm was indeed previously covered in great depth some weeks ago. It was proven beyond any doubt that Gerry was at the table at 10pm.  Unless Mr McCann has a doppelgänger there is no other explanation.

When Kate came running back from the apartment a few minutes after 10pm, it was to Gerry that she addressed her comments.  It was Gerry who took the initiative and organised a search so let's do stop this nonsense.  The man the Smiths saw could not have been Gerry McCann!

You can express your opinion a million times John but that doesn't make it a fact.

[AnneGuedes]

It was proven beyond any doubt that Gerry was at the table at 10pm.   It was Gerry who took the initiative and organised a search so let's do stop this nonsense.  The man the Smiths saw could not have been Gerry McCann!

No, John, no independent witness confirms Mr McCann was at the table at 10 pm.
Two, for instance, say they all had left by 21h45.
Arlindo (head of the 5 kitchens of the OC)
at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing.
Ricardo (who served the main dishes)
Dinner would end at about 21.45, a few minutes later the witness looked at the table and saw that there was nobody there and one of his colleagues told them that all the guests had left the table in a hurry.
And the chef, Miguel, did not notice when the guests left. His cousin, Jeronimo, told him at about 22.00 what had happened, when he was in the cold store.

They don't notice who was there, who wasn't :
Ricardo
he was asked to serve Russell, who had returned to the table. He remembers that the rest of the group had practically finished their main courses. Asked if he remembers having seen all the elements of the group at this time, he cannot remember exactly.
He does not remember having seen Madeleine's parents leave the table for short instances, but it is possible that someone could have left the table without the witness having noticed.
Jeronimo (bartender)
He did not notice if from the group of British citizens (in number 8 or 9) that yesterday dined in restaurant (which was partly made up of the parents of the missing [child]), someone left during such dinner

No, John, Mr McCann organized no search at all. He sent Mr Oldfield to the main reception to ask to call the police. He went himself to the creche, on top of the main reception, but didn't ask if the police had been called ("Madeleine")

[AnneGuedes]

Faith and Anne obviously think they know more than the Portuguese Police do.  Says it all really!

John, it's not a question of knowing, everybody is equal on the topic of knowledge in this case, let aside the famous secret documents that aren't in the files and the mysterious documents owned by the LC (I really don't think there's any resolution hidden within those files).
And see, unlike you who without evidence stated it was established so let's do stop this nonsense that Mr McCann was at the table at 22pm and that he couldn't be his lookalike seen by the Smith family at 22h05, I limit myself questioning, restlessly questioning and I'll never stop, for the sake not of justice but of information against disinformation.

[John]

No, John, no independent witness confirms Mr McCann was at the table at 10 pm.
Two, for instance, say they all had left by 21h45.
Arlindo (head of the 5 kitchens of the OC)
at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing.
Ricardo (who served the main dishes)
Dinner would end at about 21.45, a few minutes later the witness looked at the table a @)(++(*nd saw that there was nobody there and one of his colleagues told them that all the guests had left the table in a hurry.
And the chef, Miguel, did not notice when the guests left. His cousin, Jeronimo, told him at about 22.00 what had happened, when he was in the cold store.

They don't notice who was there, who wasn't :
Ricardo
he was asked to serve Russell, who had returned to the table. He remembers that the rest of the group had practically finished their main courses. Asked if he remembers having seen all the elements of the group at this time, he cannot remember exactly.
He does not remember having seen Madeleine's parents leave the table for short instances, but it is possible that someone could have left the table without the witness having noticed.
Jeronimo (bartender)
He did not notice if from the group of British citizens (in number 8 or 9) that yesterday dined in restaurant (which was partly made up of the parents of the missing [child]), someone left during such dinner

No, John, Mr McCann organized no search at all. He sent Mr Oldfield to the main reception to ask to call the police. He went himself to the creche, on top of the main reception, but didn't ask if the police had been called ("Madeleine")

You can spin out the comments as much as you want Anne, truth is it is beyond any doubt and the Portuguese police confirmed this in their final Report to the Attorney General.  Obviously though you believe you know better.

The evidence is what counts at the end of the day Anne and the evidence of all the independent witnesses taken together reveals only one delayed meal, that intended for Russell O'Brien.  The evidence by the other members of the group corroborates everything which transpired.  No mystery, no conspiracy!

[AnneGuedes]

I will also add this sentence from the PJ final Report to the AG.

"It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant."

www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

A PJ mistake. Aren't you always criticizing their incompetence, corruption etc. ?
But the AG added a nuance.