Order of killings

[steve_trousers]

But again, was ALL of the blood tested in the room? I read that there were several patches that were not tested therefore we can’t rule out NB blood wasn’t in room.

He could have lunged at JB hence led crouched or turning which could also give the desired trajectory body positions when lunging could be in any direction.

I am sure they cannot appeal on that basis. If they do it will be laughed at again. There’s no way you can overturn a murder verdict on what you have written. Too much ambiguity. Hence this discussion for us to work out how he killed them all. Unless they can overturn his phonecall lie (they can’t) AND the silencer evidence (they can’t) then I don’t see how he gets off.

35 years and counting. He will die there and hopefully has the guts to confess before he dies.

Right, In this case it's not possible to ascertain exactly and without ambiguity how the injuries were sustained, where and in what order, when there are no surviving witnesses who admit to being present.

Holly compares the need for a soc reconstruction in front of jurors with the Tony Martin case when there are 2 surviving witnesses and it is necessary using their own accounts to show who was standing where when it went off. This also happened with Kenneth Noye's murder trial

edit - I mean Noye's first murder trial in the 80's when he stabbed a police officer to death on surveillance leaving a surviving witness

[Inspector Gadget]

Right, In this case it's not possible to ascertain exactly and without ambiguity how the injuries were sustained, where and in what order, when there are no surviving witnesses who admit to being present.

Holly compares the need for a soc reconstruction in front of jurors with the Tony Martin case when there are 2 surviving witnesses and it is necessary using their own accounts to show who was standing where when it went off. This also happened with Kenneth Noye's murder trial

edit - I mean Noye's first murder trial in the 80's when he stabbed a police officer to death on surveillance leaving a surviving witness

I agree so with that in mind I fully believe NB received 4 shots upstairs and 4 downstairs
Twins shot once each as they slept then additional shots later after everybody was dead.
June shot 5 times initially then again between eyes later on when he had finished downstairs with NB
I think Sheila was sedated or scared and possibly kids used as bargaining tool - for whatever reason she submitted and went into that room and was shot without a struggle.
Bamber then went about disturbing scene and firing additional his shots to make it all look like murder suicide.

All opinion of course, as you say we will never know.

All we do know is Bamber is 100% guilty.

[Caroline]

But again, was ALL of the blood tested in the room? I read that there were several patches that were not tested therefore we can’t rule out NB blood wasn’t in room.

He could have lunged at JB hence led crouched or turning which could also give the desired trajectory body positions when lunging could be in any direction.

I am sure they cannot appeal on that basis. If they do it will be laughed at again. There’s no way you can overturn a murder verdict on what you have written. Too much ambiguity. Hence this discussion for us to work out how he killed them all. Unless they can overturn his phonecall lie (they can’t) AND the silencer evidence (they can’t) then I don’t see how he gets off.

35 years and counting. He will die there and hopefully has the guts to confess before he dies.

If Nevill's blood was present in the bedroom, it seems unlikely (although not impossible) that in the five areas tested that none was detected.

[Inspector Gadget]

If Nevill's blood was present in the bedroom, it seems unlikely (although not impossible) that in the five areas tested that none was detected.

With that in mind then we can assume June was shot in the main bedroom but for whatever reason NB wasn’t. Which means he was awake / disturbed when initial shots happened and managed to escape bedroom. Where were the first four shots? I thought it was accepted that 4 connected with him upstairs so where is the blood?

[Caroline]

With that in mind then we can assume June was shot in the main bedroom but for whatever reason NB wasn’t. Which means he was awake / disturbed when initial shots happened and managed to escape bedroom. Where were the first four shots? I thought it was accepted that 4 connected with him upstairs so where is the blood?

It is my belief (and Holly's) is that Nevill was shot on the stairs. The thing is, no one knows what time the shooting started, it may have been around midnight and prior to Nevill going to bed. If you believe Bamber is innocent, this part where you inject the phone call and Nevill died after 03:15, if you believe he's guilty, then Nevill could have died much earlier, which means he may have not retired at all.

[Inspector Gadget]

It is my belief (and Holly's) is that Nevill was shot on the stairs. The thing is, no one knows what time the shooting started, it may have been around midnight and prior to Nevill going to bed. If you believe Bamber is innocent, this part where you inject the phone call and Nevill died after 03:15, if you believe he's guilty, then Nevill could have died much earlier, which means he may have not retired at all.

But the phone call was proven to be a lie. If receiver was off the hook then it wouldn’t have cut off mid discussion and line certainly would have remained open. He wouldn’t have been able to call police or Julie. His statement to police on this site is incredible evasive and clearly he is lying therefore we have to assume that the call didn’t happen. Besides JB himself said his dad called him at 3am and woke him up so he couldn’t have died earlier in JB’s own words so he couldn’t have died before retiring.

[steve_trousers]

Broadly speaking that is how I see it too. We can build a picture from the scene how it went down. Your conclusions regarding Nevill make sense. Also with June evidence from the scene suggests that she staggered around the bed after the initial attack being finished off between the eyes.

When it comes to Sheila, Jeremy may have just pounced on her wherever he found her by the time he ran back upstairs following the unplanned detour by Nevill. As long as she wasn't in her bed. As it happened, Sheila was out of bed by this time and tending to a severely injured June. He barked at her to get the f*** down now, which the poor woman would have no choice but to have complied with before being shot the first time. Jeremy finishes off June between the eyes. Then comes the moment Jeremy turns white, when he realised Sheila needed a second shot to finish her off.
He positions the gun on her, making sure to get her print on there (just the 1 print mind) smugly plants the bible to shore up the deranged nature of his sisters actions, to leave no doubt, or so he thought. Then he goes about setting the scene, firing more shots where necessary.

[Inspector Gadget]

Broadly speaking that is how I see it too. We can build a picture from the scene how it went down. Your conclusions regarding Nevill make sense. Also with June evidence from the scene suggests that she staggered around the bed after the initial attack being finished off between the eyes.

When it comes to Sheila, Jeremy may have just pounced on her wherever he found her by the time he ran back upstairs following the unplanned detour by Nevill. As long as she wasn't in her bed. As it happened, Sheila was out of bed by this time and tending to a severely injured June. He barked at her to get the f*** down now, which the poor woman would have no choice but to have complied with before being shot the first time. Jeremy finishes off June between the eyes. Then comes the moment Jeremy turns white, when he realised Sheila needed a second shot to finish her off.
He positions the gun on her, making sure to get her print on there (just the 1 print mind) smugly plants the bible to shore up the deranged nature of his sisters actions, to leave no doubt, or so he thought. Then he goes about setting the scene, firing more shots where necessary.

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻....and I agree that’s ridiculous to have only left one print. Another schoolboy error on his part. Your view on silencer? You believe it was used or not?

[Caroline]

But the phone call was proven to be a lie. If receiver was off the hook then it wouldn’t have cut off mid discussion and line certainly would have remained open. He wouldn’t have been able to call police or Julie. His statement to police on this site is incredible evasive and clearly he is lying therefore we have to assume that the call didn’t happen. Besides JB himself said his dad called him at 3am and woke him up so he couldn’t have died earlier in JB’s own words so he couldn’t have died before retiring.

Just so you know, I think he's guilty so I don't believe the phone call ever happened.

[steve_trousers]

I believe the silencer was used. He hid it well, not counting on Miss Marple conducting her own search.
Her prints would have been all over the gun. Mr Boutflour described an episode a few weeks before the murders where Jeremy had tried getting Sheila to load bullets into 'the thingy'

[Inspector Gadget]

I believe the silencer was used. He hid it well, not counting on Miss Marple conducting her own search.
Her prints would have been all over the gun. Mr Boutflour described an episode a few weeks before the murders where Jeremy had tried getting Sheila to load bullets into 'the thingy'

I agree. I believe he loaded it up and hid it the night before when he made up the rabit statement to police. Funny how he was the last person to touch the murder weapon eh! And he said it didn’t fit in case with silencer so conveniently by leaving it out he has pretty much admitted the silencer was on it

[steve_trousers]

Shooting rabbits is a nice convenient excuse just in case he is asked to submit to a paraffin test or whatever they used in 1985. He admitted to leaving a loaded gun in plain sight in the kitchen or scullery, when he knew kids were running around the house that weekend. As you say, In reality he couldn't leave in plain sight and must have hidden it. A furious Nevill would have noticed and secured it.

[Holly Goodhead]

I recall there was some suggestion from their Injuries that the parents were initially shot sitting up (June) or in the act of getting out of bed (Nevill), implying that he was at least partially ready for an intruder.

It's why some believe the children were shot first and Nevill heard the report from the silencer. By the time Jeremy ran across the landing to the parents bedroom for step 2, June and Nevill were awake.

I stand to be corrected on this, I had a look for the old thread on here but it must be buried somewhere under a misleading title.

The evidence shows June's head was on the pillow evidenced by the blood staining and two casings found within.

[Holly Goodhead]

 

That's not really for you to say.

A soc reconstruction is the norm with shooting incidents. It wasn't carried out at trial or CoA hearing so is all to play for and imo will support JB's claims.  Obviously the prosecution will have the opportunity to counter if applicable.
A

[Holly Goodhead]

But again, was ALL of the blood tested in the room? I read that there were several patches that were not tested therefore we can’t rule out NB blood wasn’t in room.

He could have lunged at JB hence led crouched or turning which could also give the desired trajectory body positions when lunging could be in any direction.

I am sure they cannot appeal on that basis. If they do it will be laughed at again. There’s no way you can overturn a murder verdict on what you have written. Too much ambiguity. Hence this discussion for us to work out how he killed them all. Unless they can overturn his phonecall lie (they can’t) AND the silencer evidence (they can’t) then I don’t see how he gets off.

35 years and counting. He will die there and hopefully has the guts to confess before he dies.

A soc reconstruction is the norm with shooting incidents. It hasn't happened so far but all the evidence is still avialabe.

New forensic tests are available to undermine the silencer evidence.

The above are based on scientific principles so no ambiguity.