Author Topic: Order of killings  (Read 37964 times)

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Offline barrier

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #180 on: May 29, 2020, 07:38:26 PM »
She didn’t survive, she was shot dead — the first bullet fractured her spine and ripped into her throat causing a massive blood spill and pool in her neck (which can be seen)

The second bullet went through her brain

Sheila was killed in the early hours ...hence why she she had mottling and was going into rigor mortis

So, in answer to your question, doctors would not look for pulses/signs of life when a body has livor mortis (blue mottling); the eyes are open or semi/open with fixed pupils; they are starting to decompose (bodies give off gases and the smell of decomposition starts quickly); and it’s obvious to anybody (especially a doctor ) that they’ve been dead for hours
Hindsight expert 30 odd years after the fact.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #181 on: May 29, 2020, 10:56:31 PM »
From looking at that photo of Sheila yesterday it has reinforced my opinion the shots were fired by her and in quite a quick succession. 

To begin with, I thought she may have delayed the second shot but not now.

What does the forum think?
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Offline The General

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #182 on: May 29, 2020, 11:06:52 PM »
From looking at that photo of Sheila yesterday it has reinforced my opinion the shots were fired by her and in quite a quick succession. 

To begin with, I thought she may have delayed the second shot but not now.

What does the forum think?
Rob, when someone has been shot, in the main, the take leave of their senses.
Many cry for their mum, would you believe. Their motor skills abandon them. They are generally incapacitated.
The coroner apparently had dealt with '4 two shot suicides' in his 30 or so years and I have no reason to doubt.
And a .22 is on the lower scale of stopping power, granted. But wee Sheila experiencing the searing pain of a gunshot wound to the neck, then mustering the wherewithal and balls to do it again? Never.
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Caroline

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #183 on: May 29, 2020, 11:11:23 PM »
From looking at that photo of Sheila yesterday it has reinforced my opinion the shots were fired by her and in quite a quick succession. 

To begin with, I thought she may have delayed the second shot but not now.

What does the forum think?

Not in a million years.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #184 on: May 29, 2020, 11:15:22 PM »
Rob, when someone has been shot, in the main, the take leave of their senses.
Many cry for their mum, would you believe. Their motor skills abandon them. They are generally incapacitated.
The coroner apparently had dealt with '4 two shot suicides' in his 30 or so years and I have no reason to doubt.
And a .22 is on the lower scale of stopping power, granted. But wee Sheila experiencing the searing pain of a gunshot wound to the neck, then mustering the wherewithal and balls to do it again? Never.
That might be true historically but looking at the bleeding pattern I'd say the two shots were in quick succession.
This can only be an opinion but I base it on the experience of years of supervising a slaughterhouse, where at times we had to use rifles to dispatch animals. 
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #185 on: May 29, 2020, 11:16:39 PM »
Not in a million years.
What doesn't happen in a million years.
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Offline Caroline

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #186 on: May 29, 2020, 11:20:20 PM »
That might be true historically but looking at the bleeding pattern I'd say the two shots were in quick succession.
This can only be an opinion but I base it on the experience of years of supervising a slaughterhouse, where at times we had to use rifles to dispatch animals.

Animals shoot themselves often did they?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #187 on: May 29, 2020, 11:25:30 PM »
Animals shoot themselves often did they?
I'm sure they would if they could.

In my job, I was always looking for clues as to whether the staff members were telling me the truth or not.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 11:27:36 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline The General

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #188 on: May 29, 2020, 11:29:01 PM »
That might be true historically but looking at the bleeding pattern I'd say the two shots were in quick succession.
This can only be an opinion but I base it on the experience of years of supervising a slaughterhouse, where at times we had to use rifles to dispatch animals.
Yes mate, Jeremy Bamber shot Sheila twice in relatively quick succession, finishing the job with the 2nd shot.
I reckon the whole atrocity was essentially over in about 3 / 4 minutes.
There's a chance he had to frig about with the moderator, as it became apparent that the rifle was too long for Sheila to physically reach the trigger (even with a thumb, as is the mode with a shotgun suicide - or even a big toe).

Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #189 on: May 29, 2020, 11:37:26 PM »
Yes mate, Jeremy Bamber shot Sheila twice in relatively quick succession, finishing the job with the 2nd shot.
I reckon the whole atrocity was essentially over in about 3 / 4 minutes.
There's a chance he had to frig about with the moderator, as it became apparent that the rifle was too long for Sheila to physically reach the trigger (even with a thumb, as is the mode with a shotgun suicide - or even a big toe).

Right, in your scenario just think about the timing between the two shots*.  Why would there be minutes?  OK once Sheila is dead there could be repositioning of the nightdress and the gun (removal of the silencer) and definitely placement of the Bible.  The time taken to do all this is not the time I'm thinking of, but just the time interval between the two shots.

If Jeremy wasn't there, there still needs to be a 3rd party to make these alterations to the crime scene.

*There would be a delay if the gun ran out of ammo between the first and second shots.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 11:47:22 PM by Robittybob1 »
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #190 on: May 30, 2020, 09:33:12 AM »
8 hrs,the Doctor had to confirm before the undertaker would deal with him.

I’m sorry to hear that, Barrier

It must have been traumatic for you

You obviously realised he was dead when you found him, yess?

When the doctor came to certify he was dead did he look for a pulse?
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #191 on: May 30, 2020, 09:57:51 AM »
My thoughts also, just imagine if Sheila being the last to be shot and only receiving two shots at that. somehow survived,how would they know if no sign of life was looked for.

Edit to add,the chap yesterday who its thought was in some kind of altercation with youths using catapults was pronounced dead at the scene,some one has do do it.

'Officers and South East Coast Ambulance Service attended and a man in his 60s was pronounced dead at the scene.



Yes, of course a doctor has to pronounce someone dead, and like poor man you mention I’m sure the doctor did indeed check for usual signs that life was extinct as he’d not been dead that long. Likewise, is fine dies in hospital the doctor will check for vital signs (pulse, pupil reaction etc) but that’s when they’ve just died.

In the case of murders, suicides, fatal accidents, unexplained deaths etc where the deceased haven been found for many hours, they develop hypothesis, rigor mortis, non-reactive pupils, plus various other biological features. When someone has rigor mortis there’s no need to check for a pulse.

I’ve taken this excerpt from a site for medical doctors which explains what features design death.

You’ll see rigor mortis and hypostasis are signs not just that they’re dead, but have been for several hours.


“Particularly if the death is unexpected, an external examination of the deceased and their surroundings should be made, to look for any apparent factors which may be relevant to their death (bleeding, vomit, wounds, weapons, alcohol, pills, notes, etc).

Other signs include:

No response to painful stimuli.
Absence of corneal reflexes.
Cloudiness of the cornea.
Examination of the trunk may show evidence of post-mortem staining as a result of hypostasis.
Rigor mortis may have set in (begins approximately three hours after death).
Decreased temperature - will depend on ambient temperature but may not occur for up to eight hours.”
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline barrier

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #192 on: May 30, 2020, 06:11:12 PM »
I’m sorry to hear that, Barrier

It must have been traumatic for you

You obviously realised he was dead when you found him, yess?

When the doctor came to certify he was dead did he look for a pulse?

Not traumatic at all,could say good bye that way rather than a nondescript box lowered in the ground,and yes he felt for a pulse,the old fella had a heart attack so looked asleep.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #193 on: May 30, 2020, 06:20:18 PM »
Hindsight expert 30 odd years after the fact.


That isn’t hindsight, Barrier — I’ve merely repeated what happened 😳
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Order of killings
« Reply #194 on: May 30, 2020, 06:23:47 PM »
Not traumatic at all,could say good bye that way rather than a nondescript box lowered in the ground,and yes he felt for a pulse,the old fella had a heart attack so looked asleep.


But you said he’d been dead for eight hours

He wouldn’t look like he was asleep — he’d have been discoloured and besides looking obviously dead there’d have been an unpleasant aroma
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 06:26:00 PM by Ispywithmybigeye »
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.