Author Topic: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB  (Read 300279 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2730 on: November 08, 2020, 11:09:42 PM »
Looking at it from the point of view of Social Services they were looking at a couple who were prime suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. I doubt if they would have visited once and then gone away. They would have had to make absolutely sure that the other two children were safe in my opinion.
It appears that they came to the conclusion that the twins were perfectly safe with the McCanns, something that it must be hard for the parents’ detractors to get their heads around, seeing as how these two are considered by sceptics to be amongst the worst examples of parents that ever lived.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2731 on: November 08, 2020, 11:27:12 PM »
Looking at it from the point of view of Social Services they were looking at a couple who were prime suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. I doubt if they would have visited once and then gone away. They would have had to make absolutely sure that the other two children were safe in my opinion.

I have a friend who is a social worker and in her experience she doubts that the McCanns behaviour would just be brushed off as some here think it would without some kind of action being taken.

I wonder if the parents stayed in Portugal precisely to escape the type of attention from social services they knew would meet them on their return home ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2732 on: November 08, 2020, 11:46:14 PM »
Yeah of course.  The McCanns decided to stay in Portugal to escape unwanted attention.   (&^&
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2733 on: November 09, 2020, 12:34:29 AM »
Yeah of course.  The McCanns decided to stay in Portugal to escape unwanted attention.   (&^&
Is that IYO?  It isn't really a known fact, is it?
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Offline sadie

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2734 on: November 09, 2020, 12:54:01 AM »
You seem to be accusing Martin Grime of telling lies. Isn't that what Brietta refers to as 'implied libel'? There's absolutely no reason to suppose Grime lied about his experience and knowledge. It would have been very foolish to risk destroying his own credibility at a time when he was retiring from the police and setting up his own business.

Pig is used as it has been proven in training and operationally over the last 20 years to be a reliable analogue for human remains detecting training for dogs...

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States.These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Please give me a cite that Eddie was trained on human cadaver odour prior to the Madeleine case

From memory, I feel sure that I have read that Eddie was only trained on Piglet cadaver odour prior to the Madeleine case, but later, after Martin Grime went over to the U.S., his cadaver dog/s were trained on Human cadaver odour.


After talking about Eddie being trained with Human cadaver odour prior to Madeleines case, you showed the webpage
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavwp/0140174.pdf

However this refers to an appeal case of 2019, for a murder in 2014 - and I can find only mention of Cadaver dog MORSE and blood dog KEELA.   I can see nothing about Eddie at all, maybe I have missed it?


Please could you send me a cite that Eddie was Human cadaver dog trained prior to the Madeleine case   



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Offline Brietta

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2735 on: November 09, 2020, 01:34:21 AM »
Looking at it from the point of view of Social Services they were looking at a couple who were prime suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. I doubt if they would have visited once and then gone away. They would have had to make absolutely sure that the other two children were safe in my opinion.

Why on earth are you posting in this vein?

You know that the McCann's top priority is their children and to that end the first thing they did on their return home was to set up contact with the relative child protection authorities.
This was set in motion by their GP.

The local police visited them within the first twenty four hours of their return home.  That visit was to ensure the security of the family from intruders.  Sensor alarms which were activated in the local police station if any one broke in were fitted.
And they were given alarms to be carried on their persons at all times such was the level of inflammatory nonsense being written in the press and elsewhere about them.

You have quoted from madeleine many times in the past and that information is all in there.

Included is the fact that social work were involved right from the start in Praia da Luz, along with FLOs ~ specialists from the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP) and a detective who was the director of the forensic psychology unit.

These people met with Kate and Gerry who were left under no illusion as a consequence regarding the typical profile of a paedophile, now thirteen+ years down the line there is now a name and a face and a list of heinous crimes to add to the initial horror they felt and have lived with since.

I really feel that now is not the time (nor that there ever should be a time) to be attacking Kate and Gerry McCann using the vehicle of their children.  There never could be any pretence that it benefits the twins in any way whatsoever ~ in my opinion it is just a plain nasty thing to do.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2736 on: November 09, 2020, 01:43:45 AM »
Is that IYO?  It isn't really a known fact, is it?
It is an overlooked response to a deleted post, Rob.  Which made sense in context but not so as 'stand alone'.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2737 on: November 09, 2020, 08:31:21 AM »

Didn't we do this twelve years ago?  Never did I think that this would be dragged up again.

There was never any danger of the twins being removed.  The children were never abandoned.  And nor were they neglected.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2738 on: November 09, 2020, 08:58:45 AM »
Please give me a cite that Eddie was trained on human cadaver odour prior to the Madeleine case.
.

Perhaps you'll believe Mark Harrison, who wrote on 23/07/2007;

An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

Or was he telling lies too, in your opinion?
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Offline Brietta

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2739 on: November 09, 2020, 09:10:33 AM »
Didn't we do this twelve years ago?  Never did I think that this would be dragged up again.

There was never any danger of the twins being removed.  The children were never abandoned.  And nor were they neglected.
I think initially it could masquerade as being legitimate concern for the twins.  At this remove I think the sheer venom of it cannot be disguised for what it really is.

There is a realistic suspect in the frame at the moment which belies the horrid fantasy carefully built up over the years from nothing but error and I think that worries some.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2740 on: November 09, 2020, 09:12:26 AM »
Perhaps you'll believe Mark Harrison, who wrote on 23/07/2007;

An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

Or was he telling lies too, in your opinion?

Do Eddie received training in the US in 2007...doesn't say Grime was a special advisor to the FBI in 2007

Offline Lace

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2741 on: November 09, 2020, 09:20:42 AM »
If you treasure something you take care of it yourself to the best of your ability. That's why people lock their doors and windows, fit alarms to cars and houses and pay babysitters if they want to go out without their children.

As I have said many times before people tend to throw caution to the wind whilst on holiday.    The group knew that this particular holiday company usually did a listening service so they decided to do their own.   They did make sure they were all staying in apartments close to each other.   They thought this site was family safe it was very quiet.  They were sitting close by.   I've seen parents let their children loose whilst they drink,  read or sleep!   Why they think it is safe to do this on holiday when they wouldn't do it at home I don't know.   The McCann's used a nanny at home so they cared for their children when they went out for an evening.   It worked very well until the Thursday.   I don't think the McCann's are uncaring parents,  their children are well looked after and Madeleine was a very happy little girl.   They are burdened with the bad decision,  it will haunt them for the rest of their lives.   

Offline Eleanor

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2742 on: November 09, 2020, 09:23:11 AM »
I think initially it could masquerade as being legitimate concern for the twins.  At this remove I think the sheer venom of it cannot be disguised for what it really is.

There is a realistic suspect in the frame at the moment which belies the horrid fantasy carefully built up over the years from nothing but error and I think that worries some.

What they have always tried to do was to make it sounds as though these children were abandoned and left alone without thought for hours on end when this was clearly not the case.

As you all know, I did something similar for brief periods and I never walked out of the door without making sure that everything was as safe as could be and that I was close by.  But then an abductor never even entered my mind.

Offline Lace

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2743 on: November 09, 2020, 09:23:35 AM »
Perhaps you'll believe Mark Harrison, who wrote on 23/07/2007;

An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

Or was he telling lies too, in your opinion?

So these cadavers weren't fresh were they?   Any dog would find a decomposing body.    Could Eddie alert to cadaver scent after the body was in a place for a short length of time is the question.   I think not.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #2744 on: November 09, 2020, 09:24:30 AM »
It appears that they came to the conclusion that the twins were perfectly safe with the McCanns, something that it must be hard for the parents’ detractors to get their heads around, seeing as how these two are considered by sceptics to be amongst the worst examples of parents that ever lived.

I'm sure they did, but not necessarily immediately.

"Amongst the worst examples of parents that ever lived."? My you do exaggerate imo! According to them, a pair of mature people and doctors, they had an incomprehesible ignorance of one of the basic rules of childcare which even single teenage mothers seem able to grasp. I have always found that difficult to believe.
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