Author Topic: Gerry and Jez chat while Jane walks by. Seconds later she spots Tannerman!  (Read 443717 times)

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Offline sadie

What are you going on about - it's in the files ......

As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate. He crossed the road and engaged in general conversation with Gerry. At this time they were stood with Gerry’s back to the building near to the gate and Jeremy facing him. Rua Dr Agostino was about 10 – 15 meters to his right and the pathway leading to the front of the apartment blocks about 5 meters to his left.

He was adamant that he did not see any one else in the area. When spoken to in reference to Jane Tanner walking by, he again stated that he saw no one. He also stated that he did not see or hear anyone to his right. He was aware of the recent picture in the papers re the person with a child wrapped in a blanket and in a males arms allegedly walking across the junction to his right but again stated that he did not see any one.

The conversation with Gerry lasted for about three minutes during which Gerry was chatty and in his normal self. Jeremy then made his way back to his apartment.

1.  Where did you get that statement from?  I cant find it.  Citation please.


2.  If you take the time to look back, you will find that Jez draws a map where he has very carefully positioned himself on the corner of the alleyway with a cross.k

Jezes map
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1249.15  see post 29

http://i.imgur.com/P2Y0mEh.gif?2-Jez_Wilkins_plan


OK; Jez's actual map, so that was where Gerry and Jez stood chatting.  The cross very definitely marks the spot where they were.



3.  You will see a video where Jane goes against Gerry and insists the exact spot that Gerry and Jez stood chatting was on the alleyway corner.

Remember "The Cutting Edge Video" Youtube?  Just spare a moment and have a look at that.  See Janes evidence


Jane Tanner at from about 9.30 but most especially about 10.00.  She is very clear even arguing with Gerry.  She is clear that Gerry and Jez were chatting on the corner of the alleyway.   Not by the gate.



4.  If you care to analyse Jezes statement and think about it,

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar. In order to visualise this street, I believe it was the street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period. 
[Jez is talking about the area opposite the Tapas /garden reception building]


When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same. I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter. I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him.[/b]   As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar. 


The statement says that Jez left the little side street car park (across the road from the tapas reception) and saw Gerry walking on the other side the street.  This means  that Gerry had left the steps and was thru the garden gate walking towards the Tapas as Jez saw him, so they did NOT meet at the steps / gate ... but considerably further down[/size]

Offline Admin

It has been suggested by Heriberto on another thread that Jane saw the carrier at 9.50 and not 9.15pm.  Any thoughts?

Offline Brietta



1.  Where did you get that statement from?  I cant find it.  Citation please.


2.  If you take the time to look back, you will find that Jez draws a map where he has very carefully positioned himself on the corner of the alleyway with a cross.

Jezes map
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1249.15  see post 29



OK; Jez's actual map, so that was where Gerry and Jez stood chatting.  The cross very definitely marks the spot where they were.



3.  You will see a video where Jane goes against Gerry and insists the exact spot that Gerry and Jez stood chatting was on the alleyway corner.

Remember "The Cutting Edge Video" Youtube?  Just spare a moment and have a look at that.  See Janes evidence


Jane Tanner at from about 9.30 but most especially about 10.00.  She is very clear even arguing with Gerry.  She is clear that Gerry and Jez were chatting on the corner of the alleyway.   Not by the gate.



4.  If you care to analyse Jezes statement and think about it,

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar. In order to visualise this street, I believe it was the street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period. 
[Jez is talking about the area opposite the Tapas /garden reception building]


When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same. I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter. I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him.[/b]   As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar. 


The statement says that Jez left the little side street car park (across the road from the tapas reception) and saw Gerry walking on the other side the street.  This means  that Gerry had left the steps and was thru the garden gate walking towards the Tapas as Jez saw him, so they did NOT meet at the steps / gate ... but considerably further down[/size]

We did have a long discussion about all this, Sadie.  If you remember John was kind enough to work on an illustration of the most likely spot for them to have been standing, even ammending it two or three times to suit.
No-one disagreed with the positioning at the time ... but I have discovered that one has to continue making the same argument time after time because there are those who just will not accept a concensus or a conclusion and are in total denial of provable fact.

Good work in producing all that information yet again ... keep it close ... because I am sure you will have to refute the same argument yet again at some point in the near future :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 02:33:21 AM by Admin »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Admin

If I may input my tuppence worth.  Jez saw Gerry walking down from the side gate to 5a and assumed that he had come from his apartment.  Consequently, Gerry was beyond the gate to 5a but had not yet reached the alleyway. By the time Jez had crossed the road Gerry must have been close to the alleyway as shown in Jez' sketch.

Offline Brietta

It has been suggested by Heriberto on another thread that Jane saw the carrier at 9.50 and not 9.15pm.  Any thoughts?

Would this make it possible for the carrier seen by Jane Tanner to be the same person seen by the Smith party?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Wonderfulspam

It has been suggested by Heriberto on another thread that Jane saw the carrier at 9.50 and not 9.15pm.  Any thoughts?

Clutching at straws.

That's the first thought that entered my mind.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 06:52:49 AM by Wonderfulspam »
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline sadie

If I may input my tuppence worth.  Jez saw Gerry walking down from the side gate to 5a and assumed that he had come from his apartment.  Consequently, Gerry was beyond the gate to 5a but had not yet reached the alleyway. By the time Jez had crossed the road Gerry must have been close to the alleyway as shown in Jez' sketch.

Yep, I agree that it seems Jez assumed Gerry had come from the steps to 5A.  From what I have posted above , there is no mention to prove or disprove anything about where he came from.

Maybe there is proof elsewhere?  Dunno.

Offline pathfinder73

LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY

OFFICER'S REPORT

To: Receiver
From: DC 1756 Mike Marshall
Incident: Op Task
No. of pages: 3
Date: 05/11/07



Jeremy WILKINS and Bridget O'DONNELL
[Address]

During the evening of Wednesday 31 October 2007, Jeremy and Bridget were visited at their home address by DC 1756 and DC 4356 from the Leicestershire Op Task team. This visit was organised to attempt to gain background information in relation to the McCann's and members of their group whilst on holiday in the Prai Da Luz resort.

Contact was made as result of their previous interaction with the OP Task Team and their willigness to discuss their relationship with the group.

Both Jeremy and Bridget work within the television production industry producing documentary programmes. Bridget previously worked alongside the Police on the Crime Watch television programme and was aware of the importance for the need of collating background information.

Jeremy and Bridget have been married for several years and have two children, XXXX (F) 3 yrs and XXXX (M) 8 months. It may be of interest to note that these names are Hebrew names and spellings have been checked.

They chose that specific period to go to the Praia Da Luz resort because of the childcare facilities and the fact that it was the cheapest week of the season.

They flew to the resort on Saturday 28 April 2007. Whilst on the plane they came into conversation with Russell O'Brien and Mathew Oldfield due to their children being of the same age range and the fact that they were playing together on the plane.

They were also aware of the presence of their partners, Jane Tanner and Rachel Manphilly.

Upon arrival in the resort they were allocated apartment O in block G4. This block being situated near to the tennis courts and adjacent to the block in which the McCann’s apartment was situated. It is on the junction of Rua 1 De Maio and Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva, with Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins running parallel.

Jeremy first met Gerry at a tennis coaching session held by staff associated with the Mark Warner resort on the first Monday of their holiday (30/05/07).

He found Gerry to be amicable and willing to chat. He paired with Gerry for part of the lesson and described him as "Good company if not a little gregarious".

He did not meet up with Gerry or any of the group again until Tues 1 May 07.

This was again during a tennis session and it was at this time he met some of the group and realised that the people he met on the Plane were indeed part of the group.

Jeremy explained that he used the crèche facility provided by the resort. This was a child care facility which allowed parents to leave their children, aged between 3 – 5yrs old, with trained staff at various times of the day. He recalled walking to the crèche with Gerry who had left Madeleine with the staff. This was about 1230 hrs on Tues 1 May. He then went on to explain that the children could be left with the staff during the evening and that most would be picked up before 10pm. It was not an unusual sight to see people walking through the site at night with a child in their arms asleep. The crèche would also provide a blanket to cover the child if required. He had taken up this facility hence his knowledge of the procedure.

Jeremy and Bridget had visited the Tapas bar on several occasions during which they noticed that the group had reserved a table for every night of their holiday. This appeared to be contrary to the set down procedure of not booking a table any further than three days ahead. The group appeared boisterous but good natured with Gerry being the central figure. His gregarious character making him appear to be the central figure in the group and almost holding court. However they did notice that David Payne was equally gregarious and almost playing along with, if not up to, Gerry.

Jeremy and Bridget became aware that although the McCanns had taken up the use of the crèche facility during the day, they had not done so for the evening hours and had left the children in the apartment but were checking on them regularly and that other members of the group appeared to be doing the same.

They expressed surprise over this as the McCanns apartment was set in a location that appeared vulnerable. They were aware that the apartment was a corner building and with easy access from the road. The apartments were not very secure and entry could easily be gained.

They went on to explain the events of the 3 May 2007.

He went to play tennis at 1030hrs and noticed Gerry was there. He engaged in general conversation with him as well as a female member of Gerry's group, but he could not name her. After which they all went to the pool. Both Gerry and Kate were present this time and spent the majority of the time talking with the tennis coach. The coach appeared to be talking about her life in general and both Jeremy and Bridget noticed that Gerry and Kate were listening intently to her. Jeremy thought this to be courteous of them considering they did not know her.

At 1230hrs both Jeremy and Bridget went to pick up their children from the crèche. They did not have any interaction with the group again that afternoon. They decided to spend the evening in the apartment. Their son was unable to sleep so about 2015hrs, Jeremy took him, in the pushchair for a walk. He walked around the main area of the resort and eventually ended up in the Tapas bar where he used the toilet facility. He was unable to state what time this was. His son was still awake so he walked in the area of the ocean club gardens and walked along the alleyways in that general area. He eventually made his way along Rua Dr Francisco toward the direction of Rua Dr Agostinho. At this time he was walking on the right side of the road passing the Tapas bar area to his left. He noticed the bad street lighting and although it was not completely dark there was enough light to see clearly. As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate. He crossed the road and engaged in general conversation with Gerry. At this time they were stood with Gerry’s back to the building near to the gate and Jeremy facing him. Rua Dr Agostino was about 10 – 15 meters to his right and the pathway leading to the front of the apartment blocks about 5 meters to his left.

He was adamant that he did not see any one else in the area. When spoken to in reference to Jane Tanner walking by, he again stated that he saw no one. He also stated that he did not see or hear anyone to his right. He was aware of the recent picture in the papers re the person with a child wrapped in a blanket and in a males arms alledgedly walking across the junction to his right but again stated that he did not see any one.

The conversation with Gerry lasted for about three minutes during which Gerry was chatty and in his normal self. Jeremy then made his way back to his apartment.

They went to bed about 2300hrs but were waken about 0100hrs by a knock at the door. On answering the door they spoke with the resort manager and a person they knew was a member of the group but they only knew him as Matthew. It was then they found out that Madeleine was missing.

They had no further contact with the family apart from seeing them in passing whilst at the resort.

Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organisation employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objections to being included but were concerned as to the method being used.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Alice Purjorick

LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY

OFFICER'S REPORT

To: Receiver
From: DC 1756 Mike Marshall
Incident: Op Task
No. of pages: 3
Date: 05/11/07



Jeremy WILKINS and Bridget O'DONNELL
[Address]

During the evening of Wednesday 31 October 2007, Jeremy and Bridget were visited at their home address by DC 1756 and DC 4356 from the Leicestershire Op Task team. This visit was organised to attempt to gain background information in relation to the McCann's and members of their group whilst on holiday in the Prai Da Luz resort.

Contact was made as result of their previous interaction with the OP Task Team and their willigness to discuss their relationship with the group.

Both Jeremy and Bridget work within the television production industry producing documentary programmes. Bridget previously worked alongside the Police on the Crime Watch television programme and was aware of the importance for the need of collating background information.

Jeremy and Bridget have been married for several years and have two children, XXXX (F) 3 yrs and XXXX (M) 8 months. It may be of interest to note that these names are Hebrew names and spellings have been checked.

They chose that specific period to go to the Praia Da Luz resort because of the childcare facilities and the fact that it was the cheapest week of the season.

They flew to the resort on Saturday 28 April 2007. Whilst on the plane they came into conversation with Russell O'Brien and Mathew Oldfield due to their children being of the same age range and the fact that they were playing together on the plane.

They were also aware of the presence of their partners, Jane Tanner and Rachel Manphilly.

Upon arrival in the resort they were allocated apartment O in block G4. This block being situated near to the tennis courts and adjacent to the block in which the McCann’s apartment was situated. It is on the junction of Rua 1 De Maio and Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva, with Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins running parallel.

Jeremy first met Gerry at a tennis coaching session held by staff associated with the Mark Warner resort on the first Monday of their holiday (30/05/07).

He found Gerry to be amicable and willing to chat. He paired with Gerry for part of the lesson and described him as "Good company if not a little gregarious".

He did not meet up with Gerry or any of the group again until Tues 1 May 07.

This was again during a tennis session and it was at this time he met some of the group and realised that the people he met on the Plane were indeed part of the group.

Jeremy explained that he used the crèche facility provided by the resort. This was a child care facility which allowed parents to leave their children, aged between 3 – 5yrs old, with trained staff at various times of the day. He recalled walking to the crèche with Gerry who had left Madeleine with the staff. This was about 1230 hrs on Tues 1 May. He then went on to explain that the children could be left with the staff during the evening and that most would be picked up before 10pm. It was not an unusual sight to see people walking through the site at night with a child in their arms asleep. The crèche would also provide a blanket to cover the child if required. He had taken up this facility hence his knowledge of the procedure.

Jeremy and Bridget had visited the Tapas bar on several occasions during which they noticed that the group had reserved a table for every night of their holiday. This appeared to be contrary to the set down procedure of not booking a table any further than three days ahead. The group appeared boisterous but good natured with Gerry being the central figure. His gregarious character making him appear to be the central figure in the group and almost holding court. However they did notice that David Payne was equally gregarious and almost playing along with, if not up to, Gerry.

Jeremy and Bridget became aware that although the McCanns had taken up the use of the crèche facility during the day, they had not done so for the evening hours and had left the children in the apartment but were checking on them regularly and that other members of the group appeared to be doing the same.

They expressed surprise over this as the McCanns apartment was set in a location that appeared vulnerable. They were aware that the apartment was a corner building and with easy access from the road. The apartments were not very secure and entry could easily be gained.

They went on to explain the events of the 3 May 2007.

He went to play tennis at 1030hrs and noticed Gerry was there. He engaged in general conversation with him as well as a female member of Gerry's group, but he could not name her. After which they all went to the pool. Both Gerry and Kate were present this time and spent the majority of the time talking with the tennis coach. The coach appeared to be talking about her life in general and both Jeremy and Bridget noticed that Gerry and Kate were listening intently to her. Jeremy thought this to be courteous of them considering they did not know her.

At 1230hrs both Jeremy and Bridget went to pick up their children from the crèche. They did not have any interaction with the group again that afternoon. They decided to spend the evening in the apartment. Their son was unable to sleep so about 2015hrs, Jeremy took him, in the pushchair for a walk. He walked around the main area of the resort and eventually ended up in the Tapas bar where he used the toilet facility. He was unable to state what time this was. His son was still awake so he walked in the area of the ocean club gardens and walked along the alleyways in that general area. He eventually made his way along Rua Dr Francisco toward the direction of Rua Dr Agostinho. At this time he was walking on the right side of the road passing the Tapas bar area to his left. He noticed the bad street lighting and although it was not completely dark there was enough light to see clearly. As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate. He crossed the road and engaged in general conversation with Gerry. At this time they were stood with Gerry’s back to the building near to the gate and Jeremy facing him. Rua Dr Agostino was about 10 – 15 meters to his right and the pathway leading to the front of the apartment blocks about 5 meters to his left.

He was adamant that he did not see any one else in the area. When spoken to in reference to Jane Tanner walking by, he again stated that he saw no one. He also stated that he did not see or hear anyone to his right. He was aware of the recent picture in the papers re the person with a child wrapped in a blanket and in a males arms alledgedly walking across the junction to his right but again stated that he did not see any one.

The conversation with Gerry lasted for about three minutes during which Gerry was chatty and in his normal self. Jeremy then made his way back to his apartment.

They went to bed about 2300hrs but were waken about 0100hrs by a knock at the door. On answering the door they spoke with the resort manager and a person they knew was a member of the group but they only knew him as Matthew. It was then they found out that Madeleine was missing.

They had no further contact with the family apart from seeing them in passing whilst at the resort.

Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organisation employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objections to being included but were concerned as to the method being used.


Interesting
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 05:06:35 PM by Mr Moderator »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline sadie

We did have a long discussion about all this, Sadie.  If you remember John was kind enough to work on an illustration of the most likely spot for them to have been standing, even ammending it two or three times to suit.
No-one disagreed with the positioning at the time ... but I have discovered that one has to continue making the same argument time after time because there are those who just will not accept a concensus or a conclusion and are in total denial of provable fact.

Good work in producing all that information yet again ... keep it close ... because I am sure you will have to refute the same argument yet again at some point in the near future :)
Thank you Brietta.

Yep it is a pain to have to keep raking things up and re-proving stuff, just becos someone is "spinning" facts, wumming or lying.  Takes ages to find things again

My data base is gi-normous and despite good intents Brietta, I shall lose it again


Anyway I manged to get it together again this time ..... and it does no harm having an airing .... for peeps that haven't seen it before

Offline sadie

Thank you Pfinder

You do realise this is a third party statement.  Not the words of Jez, but the officers interpretation of them 
So subject to the chinese whispers syndrome.


Are you saying that you prefer this third party statement to Jezes actual words?  and contrary to the drawing he did for the PJ ?

Cos that aint safe

Offline pathfinder73

Thank you Pfinder

You do realise this is a third party statement.  Not the words of Jez, but the officers interpretation of them 
So subject to the chinese whispers syndrome.


Are you saying that you prefer this third party statement to Jezes actual words?  and contrary to the drawing he did for the PJ ?

Cos that aint safe

The whole point in going back months later was to get the real precise facts down on record correctly or what's the point?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

The whole point in going back months later was to get the real precise facts down on record correctly or what's the point?
I appreciate that Pfinder, but it doesn't alter the fact that they were third party, so potentially subject to errors

Offline pathfinder73

I appreciate that Pfinder, but it doesn't alter the fact that they were third party, so potentially subject to errors

Very doubtful if it was recorded.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 05:12:07 PM by Mr Moderator »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Very doubtful if it was recorded.

It wasn't from a recording was it?  Third party statements are not as reliable as actual statements by the witness.