At what time were the police called after Madeleine's disappearance?

[Robittybob1]

You are taking (yet another!) report, taken in one language, translated into a different language and transcribed (from one, spoken language to another, written language), before being (yet again translated) to the English form we read on line) and (attempting) to infer something deeply sinister from it.

It's the way you (and others) have carried on since Madeleine was abducted.

Just won't do.

Why did you say that? I didn't get anything sinister from that?

[ferryman]

Why did you say that? I didn't get anything sinister from that?

By the literal and semantic interpretation (of reports that we read on line) you can take it that the alarm was already raised by 10.00pm; or yet to be raised at 10.00pm.

That is the angle faith lilly (and others) would home in on.

It is wholly spurious, indicative of nothing (sinister) and suggestive of how patchy the reports (that we read on line) are.

[ShiningInLuz]

About 20 minutes from central Lagos to Praia da Luz.

It is a distance of about 6km by road.  I waited until I could speak to my better half.  We both think 10mins maximum.

That time becomes important because it influences when the GNR moved from OC 24hr reception to apartment 5A, and so when many people first thought the GNR had finally turned up.

[G-Unit]

It is a distance of about 6km by road.  I waited until I could speak to my better half.  We both think 10mins maximum.

That time becomes important because it influences when the GNR moved from OC 24hr reception to apartment 5A, and so when many people first thought the GNR had finally turned up.

Of course the GNR patrol which responded was in Odiaxere, 15-20 minutes away depending on traffic;

Clarifies that the occurrence in question was transmitted to the above referenced patrol via radio, at time when they were located in Odiaxere;

The patrol of which he took part, and now as a witness, went immediately to the principal reception of the aforementioned establishment, where there was encountered the father of the missing child;
Following, this patrol went to the residence
José Maria Batista Roque
 Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H45

[John]

But the important thing in this case is the manager "is already in a bad mood"  because of the earlier call to the Police, the one where they say they can't come straight away because they are busy sorting out that robbery.  OK it turns out less important and the OC management seem to handle it themselves.  But there is no way that that story fits in with such an efficient response to the OC calls re MM once they are made at 10:41 or 10:52, for if you ring at 10:41 and they tell you "they are busy with a robbery" you don't ring them back 10 minutes later wondering where they have got too! 

[ speculation removed ]

I see no problem whatsoever with the two calls by Receptionist Helder to police just 11 minutes apart. 

In his statement Helder claims he was initially alerted by staff from the tapas restaurant and phoned the police immediately. Warner Manager John Hill for his part claims he was initially alerted on his mobile at 10.28pm by head of childcare Lindsay and arrived on site some 5 minutes later.  Hill states that after observing the searching going on around the resort he went to OC main reception and advised Helder to phone the police again.

This was after all, one of two possibilities, a suspected child abduction or a child in peril. Almost an hour after the disappearance and with no sign whatsoever of the child, some panic and urgency was plainly warranted.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm

[ShiningInLuz]

Of course the GNR patrol which responded was in Odiaxere, 15-20 minutes away depending on traffic;

Clarifies that the occurrence in question was transmitted to the above referenced patrol via radio, at time when they were located in Odiaxere;

The patrol of which he took part, and now as a witness, went immediately to the principal reception of the aforementioned establishment, where there was encountered the father of the missing child;
Following, this patrol went to the residence
José Maria Batista Roque
 Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H45

I accept the GNR unit was in Oxiaxere when it got the first request.  The records show 10.41 as the first call from the land line of the OC to the land line of GNR Lagos.  But when that request was relayed to the mobile patrol in Odiaxere is not on record.  In addition to the OC mobile it appears there was also a mobile for GNR Lagos, so we may or may not be missing some info.

The records show a call from the OC land line to GNR Lagos at around 10.52 or 10.53.  I can't see anything to say how quickly that resulted in a hurry up to the mobile GNR unit, merely that the patrol was passing the Vale Verde restaurant when they got it.  It could have been 10.53 or minutes later.

Now there is the question of the call between the receptionist and his boss, which I can't see in the records, only in their statements.  This was made after the hurry up call, it seems.  The boss was in Lagos, but made it in time to arrive at OC 24 hr reception with the GNR present talking to Gerry.

That for me is the importance of the Lagos-Luz time.  If the boss had taken 20 minutes, I can't see how the GNR would still have been in the OC reception.

That takes me to Gerry's 2 calls to Kate at 11.14 and 11.17.  These are consistent with Gerry still being at the OC with the GNR around that time telling her what was going on, the boss being on-site, and the GNR not reaching 5A until close to 11.20.

[John]

Always remembering that the GNR were already on their way to Praia da Luz when they were contacted by their HQ again following the second call at 10.52pm.  Thereafter arriving at Main Reception around 11pm.

[pegasus]

I see the general pattern now, excluding the local numbers dialled. How does that work?

Something like this Misty
04,05=local
10,15=longdist
34=mob
16,55,64=other tariffs
52=dir enq
20=international

[ShiningInLuz]

Always remembering that the GNR were already on their way to Praia da Luz when they were contacted by their HQ again following the second call at 10.52pm.  Thereafter arriving at Main Reception around 11pm.

John Hill lived in Espiche, which is maybe 1km away from OC reception. He was on-site earlier than Vitor, and we recently established his mobile was in contact with OC reception shortly before each call to the GNR.

So - call 1 - John Hill to reception.  Call 2 - reception calls GNR Lagos.  John Hill did not speak Portuguese, according to his statement, so getting someone Portuguese to do it makes sense.

Call 3 - John Hill to reception - time passing, possibly a hurry-up call.  Call 4 reception to GNR Lagos - appears to have been a hurry up call.  Possibly there is a call from the receptionist to his direct boss Vitor in Lagos, and Vitor moves as quick as he can.

Call 5 - Gerry to Kate at 11.14.  This is not required if the GNR, Gerry and Kate are all ensconced in 5A.  On best evidence, Gerry is in OC reception, presumably telling Kate the GNR are on their way.  Call 6 - Gerry to Kate - 11.17 - speculation on my part, but it fits Gerry telling Kate the GNR have arrived and/or they are all heading for 5A.

All of this suggests the GNR did not make it to 5A until around 11.20pm.

[pegasus]

That's a good summary Shining.

[John]

I haven't trawled through the phone records as yet so well done to those who have.

Receptionist Helder appears to have been under some pressure what with Matt and then John Hill insisting that he call the police combined with their failure to attend the scene urgently.

Matt claims in his rog that he went down to reception immediately after the disappearance was discovered (approx 10.10pm) and asked the staff to phone the police but they fobbed him off basically.

Snip

...so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, so I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, which his back to the, to the main reception essentially, so I went down that route looking for her at that time and I asked the reception to phone the Police, and that must have been about five past, it's difficult to know what time it was at that time, but maybe about ten past ten, five past ten, ten past ten'.
 
00.51.10 4078 'Quite quick then''
Reply 'Yeah, sort of pretty much, you know, straight away, erm, I think it was only, but then it was a kind of, it was surreal when you got there, I said, you've got to phone the Police, you know, a child's been taken, and they went, oh no, she's probably just sort of woken up and he thought she's probably sort of wandered off or something like that and you thought, yeah, maybe you're right, maybe you're right, erm, can you please, it was sort of, it was kind of, it was sort a weird kind of lack of urgency, you know, he'd ring, but you had to sort and stand there and say, ring now, ring now, so I don't know if they rang at that point, but certainly, erm, you know, I certainly asked them to, about perhaps sort of maybe about ten past ten maybe. Erm, then we went back up to, or I went, because I was on my own, I went back up to the, erm, to the apartment...

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

while

Ocean Club manager Vitor Manuel dos Santos who had responsibility for reception was called by receptionist Helder pursuant to John Hill's insistances that the police be called.

Snip

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

[John]

What I cannot reconcile however is the following.

John Hill claims that his first alert was down to Lindsay at 10.28pm yet Vitor Santos claims that Helder in reception contacted him as early as 10.15pm to advise that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared?

Surely in the circumstances a difference of some 15 minutes is rather odd?

[Robittybob1]

What I cannot reconcile however is the following.

John Hill claims that his first alert was down to Lindsay at 10.28pm yet Vitor Santos claims that Helder in reception contacted him as early as 10.15pm to advise that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared?

Surely in the circumstances a difference of some 15 minutes is rather odd?

But that is not so hard to understand if there had been two incidents involving children on the same night.  Then it actually makes perfect sense.

[G-Unit]

John Hill lived in Espiche, which is maybe 1km away from OC reception. He was on-site earlier than Vitor, and we recently established his mobile was in contact with OC reception shortly before each call to the GNR.

So - call 1 - John Hill to reception.  Call 2 - reception calls GNR Lagos.  John Hill did not speak Portuguese, according to his statement, so getting someone Portuguese to do it makes sense.

Call 3 - John Hill to reception - time passing, possibly a hurry-up call.  Call 4 reception to GNR Lagos - appears to have been a hurry up call.  Possibly there is a call from the receptionist to his direct boss Vitor in Lagos, and Vitor moves as quick as he can.

Call 5 - Gerry to Kate at 11.14.  This is not required if the GNR, Gerry and Kate are all ensconced in 5A.  On best evidence, Gerry is in OC reception, presumably telling Kate the GNR are on their way.  Call 6 - Gerry to Kate - 11.17 - speculation on my part, but it fits Gerry telling Kate the GNR have arrived and/or they are all heading for 5A.

All of this suggests the GNR did not make it to 5A until around 11.20pm.

Do you have any suggestions for the other two calls from Garry to Kate?

what was her reason for deleting three of the four calls, between 23.14 and 23.17, from her husband on that critical night'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

[pegasus]

G-unit there was one call at 23:14 and one call at 23:17.
1+1=2 calls in total.