The breathtaking hypocrisy of those that support the McCanns

[Mr Gray]

Sorry, I am trying to fit this in with cooking!

See: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2275.msg74438#msg74438 - read http://www.rospa.com/homesafety/adviceandinformation/childsafety/accidents-to-children.aspx

Perhaps you shouldn't post such accusatory posts if you aren't sure...I asked for numbers of fatal accidents..you haven't replied and you haven't corrected your statement re the hotel..the baby monitoring is for ANY age  but only 7 to 12 if you are not staying at the hotel. You claim to be a professional so it is more important that your posts are accurate

[C.Edwards]

Not sure if you have noticed but the only one saying they haven't broken any laws is   YOU....you are talking to yourself...I think that says enough

I get more sense out of myself than anyone that believes the T9's fairytales, that's for sure.

I cannot be bothered to point out every occurrence, it happens so often.

Take a look at another thread for more examples of apologist hypocrisy: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2001.0

[DCI]

Perhaps you shouldn't post such accusatory posts if you aren't sure...I asked for numbers of fatal accidents..you haven't replied and you haven't corrected your statement re the hotel..the baby monitoring is for ANY age  but only 7 to 12 if you are not staying at the hotel. You claim to be a professional so it is more important that your posts are accurate

Baby monitoring
 
Watergate Bay Hotel operates a baby monitoring service which can also be used at The Beach Hut and Fifteen Cornwall. This is an electronic system and is used in conjunction with our telephone system. Responsibility for the child remains with the parents at all times and it is recommended that parents check on their children regularly. Parents are not permitted to leave the hotel grounds when using the service.

 

[DCI]

Policemen used to clip kids round the ear. Teachers used to beat children. Kids used to get sent down t'pit, doors used to be left unlocked without fear of theft, families used to eat together... all sorts of things we USED to do.

As I said, out will come the hypocrisy and out it came. Garnished with irrelevances and personal abuse.  Just do some reading on other threads on this topic on this board.  Queen Debunker the Mad is a prime example on this thread: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1219.0

Repeat after me, "they have not broken any laws..." I find anyone that doesn't condemn the McCanns outright for what they did to their children morally bankrupt. And you have the nerve to call us "[ censored word ]s"? unbelievable.

Reminder > It is against forum rules to discuss other members in their absence.

[stephen25000]

Baby monitoring
 
Watergate Bay Hotel operates a baby monitoring service which can also be used at The Beach Hut and Fifteen Cornwall. This is an electronic system and is used in conjunction with our telephone system. Responsibility for the child remains with the parents at all times and it is recommended that parents check on their children regularly. Parents are not permitted to leave the hotel grounds when using the service.

 

So where does it say in unlocked accommodation

By the way, where is the independent verification , the checking of the children was  regular ?

[C.Edwards]

FFS... I really cannot believe this.  Just because something's available in this country (or elsewhere even) doesn't make it right to use!  If any parent took advantage of such a service and the child came to harm, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  Sod the wriggling here, it's morally reprehensible to leave your children in a situation where they may come to harm.

What the McCann apologists are forgetting is that according to the testimony of their own idols, they left their kids in danger and one came to harm in some way, shape or form directly as a result of that decision. Weaseling out of it by claiming they didn't neglect the children because Portuguese law requires intent to harm is the hypocrisy that is evident every time this gets discussed on this or any other forum.

[stephen25000]

FFS... I really cannot believe this.  Just because something's available in this country (or elsewhere even) doesn't make it right to use!  If any parent took advantage of such a service and the child came to harm, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  Sod the wriggling here, it's morally reprehensible to leave your children in a situation where they may come to harm.

What the McCann apologists are forgetting is that according to the testimony of their own idols, they left their kids in danger and one came to harm in some way, shape or form directly as a result of that decision. Weaseling out of it by claiming they didn't neglect the children because Portuguese law requires intent to harm is the hypocrisy that is evident every time this gets discussed on this or any other forum.

 

[Mr Gray]

FFS... I really cannot believe this.  Just because something's available in this country (or elsewhere even) doesn't make it right to use!  If any parent took advantage of such a service and the child came to harm, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  Sod the wriggling here, it's morally reprehensible to leave your children in a situation where they may come to harm.

What the McCann apologists are forgetting is that according to the testimony of their own idols, they left their kids in danger and one came to harm in some way, shape or form directly as a result of that decision. Weaseling out of it by claiming they didn't neglect the children because Portuguese law requires intent to harm is the hypocrisy that is evident every time this gets discussed on this or any other forum.

Who said its right to use it..read back...you get so many things wrong...what I am saying is that it is available...the fact that it is available it is acceptable to these people and the people who use it

[Mr Gray]

Baby monitoring
 
Watergate Bay Hotel operates a baby monitoring service which can also be used at The Beach Hut and Fifteen Cornwall. This is an electronic system and is used in conjunction with our telephone system. Responsibility for the child remains with the parents at all times and it is recommended that parents check on their children regularly. Parents are not permitted to leave the hotel grounds when using the service.

 

Just to remind posters re the difference between the uk and Portugal, 15 cornwall does not allow children to dine in the evening/....and as far as I know it is still owned by Jaime Oliver

[CPN]

Right - cooking and eating finished, so more time!  I do also have personal connections with Kenya so am watching the developments there also.

Perhaps you shouldn't post such accusatory posts if you aren't sure...I asked for numbers of fatal accidents..you haven't replied and you haven't corrected your statement re the hotel..the baby monitoring is for ANY age  but only 7 to 12 if you are not staying at the hotel. You claim to be a professional so it is more important that your posts are accurate

No need to be unpleasant - I had said that it was a quick look.   I see DCI has quoted the relevant part, which is more helpful - thank you!

I note they refer to an electronic system, so presumably some sort of baby monitor? In addition parents are advised to check on their children and the responsibility remains with them, so that is made clear enough.  Not the sort of situation the McCanns left their children in, nor have I seen the McCanns accept responsibility.

As for the fatal accidents - I gave you the URL for you to read it for yourself.  However, assuming the mods allow this to stay, I will C&P the relevant parts.

"More than one million children under the age of 15 experience accidents in and around the home every year, for which they are taken to accident and emergency units. Many more are treated by GPs and by parents and carers.
Those most at risk from a home accident are the 0-4 years age group. Falls account for the majority of non-fatal accidents while the highest number of deaths are due to fire. Most of these accidents are preventable through increased awareness, improvements in the home environment and greater product safety

Younger children have a higher percentage of burns and scalds as well as poisoning and ingestion accidents.
Every year more than 67,000 children experience an accident in the kitchen - 43,000 of these are aged between 0-4 years; 58,000 children have accidents on the stairs.

Factors such as stress, death in the family, chronic illness, homelessness or moving home increase the likelihood of the child having an accident
Some happen when the usual routine is changed or when people are in a hurry. Distractions and inadequate supervision are often the cause of accidents
Some accidents are caused by lack of familiarity with surroundings, for example, when visiting friends or relatives, or in holiday accommodation
Who is at risk?
0-4-year-olds have the most accidents at home.
Why do children have accidents?
Because children are often absorbed in their own immediate interests they can be oblivious to their surroundings. They only have a limited perception of the environment because of their lack of experience or development. They are not aware of the consequences of the many new situations that they encounter daily
Stress
Tensions at home and emotional upsets caused by temper, jealousy and over excitement may cause a child to run blindly into danger. Such action may even be deliberate to seek attention.
Inexperience
A child’s interpretation of a situation may be inaccurate and adults looking after small children should be aware not to expect too much of them.
Inadequate supervision
Children need constant supervision. Medicines, pills and toxic substances should be locked away and fires and stairs should be guarded.
General safety advice
Children should be supervised at all times
Around 10 children die as a result of falls each year - some from windows and balconies and the remainder mostly from stairs."

That should be enough - even for you  .

[Rachel Granada]

So, CPN.  If a family used the baby listening service in dave's link and their child was abducted, do you think the family should be prosecuted for neglect?

[Mr Gray]

Right - cooking and eating finished, so more time!  I do also have personal connections with Kenya so am watching the developments there also.

No need to be unpleasant - I had said that it was a quick look.   I see DCI has quoted the relevant part, which is more helpful - thank you!

I note they refer to an electronic system, so presumably some sort of baby monitor? In addition parents are advised to check on their children and the responsibility remains with them, so that is made clear enough.  Not the sort of situation the McCanns left their children in, nor have I seen the McCanns accept responsibility.

As for the fatal accidents - I gave you the URL for you to read it for yourself.  However, assuming the mods allow this to stay, I will C&P the relevant parts.

"More than one million children under the age of 15 experience accidents in and around the home every year, for which they are taken to accident and emergency units. Many more are treated by GPs and by parents and carers.
Those most at risk from a home accident are the 0-4 years age group. Falls account for the majority of non-fatal accidents while the highest number of deaths are due to fire. Most of these accidents are preventable through increased awareness, improvements in the home environment and greater product safety

Younger children have a higher percentage of burns and scalds as well as poisoning and ingestion accidents.
Every year more than 67,000 children experience an accident in the kitchen - 43,000 of these are aged between 0-4 years; 58,000 children have accidents on the stairs.

Factors such as stress, death in the family, chronic illness, homelessness or moving home increase the likelihood of the child having an accident
Some happen when the usual routine is changed or when people are in a hurry. Distractions and inadequate supervision are often the cause of accidents
Some accidents are caused by lack of familiarity with surroundings, for example, when visiting friends or relatives, or in holiday accommodation
Who is at risk?
0-4-year-olds have the most accidents at home.
Why do children have accidents?
Because children are often absorbed in their own immediate interests they can be oblivious to their surroundings. They only have a limited perception of the environment because of their lack of experience or development. They are not aware of the consequences of the many new situations that they encounter daily
Stress
Tensions at home and emotional upsets caused by temper, jealousy and over excitement may cause a child to run blindly into danger. Such action may even be deliberate to seek attention.
Inexperience
A child’s interpretation of a situation may be inaccurate and adults looking after small children should be aware not to expect too much of them.
Inadequate supervision
Children need constant supervision. Medicines, pills and toxic substances should be locked away and fires and stairs should be guarded.
General safety advice
Children should be supervised at all times
Around 10 children die as a result of falls each year - some from windows and balconies and the remainder mostly from stairs."

That should be enough - even for you  .

Are Watergate Bay Hotel breaking the law?

[Rachel Granada]

Are Watergate Bay Hotel breaking the law?

I'd be interested to hear CPN's take on your question, dave. 

[CPN]

So, CPN.  If a family used the baby listening service in dave's link and their child was abducted, do you think the family should be prosecuted for neglect?

Difficult one - I certainly think Social Services would be involved.  The guidance (and incidentally, whatever is offered, it is up to the parents to decide what they think is best for their children) says: "parents are advised to check on their children" so there would no doubt be questions about how often the children were checked up on, whether or not the monitoring service was working OK, whether or not the door was left unlocked etc.

[Mr Gray]

Right - cooking and eating finished, so more time!  I do also have personal connections with Kenya so am watching the developments there also.

No need to be unpleasant - I had said that it was a quick look.   I see DCI has quoted the relevant part, which is more helpful - thank you!

I note they refer to an electronic system, so presumably some sort of baby monitor? In addition parents are advised to check on their children and the responsibility remains with them, so that is made clear enough.  Not the sort of situation the McCanns left their children in, nor have I seen the McCanns accept responsibility.

As for the fatal accidents - I gave you the URL for you to read it for yourself.  However, assuming the mods allow this to stay, I will C&P the relevant parts.

"More than one million children under the age of 15 experience accidents in and around the home every year, for which they are taken to accident and emergency units. Many more are treated by GPs and by parents and carers.
Those most at risk from a home accident are the 0-4 years age group. Falls account for the majority of non-fatal accidents while the highest number of deaths are due to fire. Most of these accidents are preventable through increased awareness, improvements in the home environment and greater product safety

Younger children have a higher percentage of burns and scalds as well as poisoning and ingestion accidents.
Every year more than 67,000 children experience an accident in the kitchen - 43,000 of these are aged between 0-4 years; 58,000 children have accidents on the stairs.

Factors such as stress, death in the family, chronic illness, homelessness or moving home increase the likelihood of the child having an accident
Some happen when the usual routine is changed or when people are in a hurry. Distractions and inadequate supervision are often the cause of accidents
Some accidents are caused by lack of familiarity with surroundings, for example, when visiting friends or relatives, or in holiday accommodation
Who is at risk?
0-4-year-olds have the most accidents at home.
Why do children have accidents?
Because children are often absorbed in their own immediate interests they can be oblivious to their surroundings. They only have a limited perception of the environment because of their lack of experience or development. They are not aware of the consequences of the many new situations that they encounter daily
Stress
Tensions at home and emotional upsets caused by temper, jealousy and over excitement may cause a child to run blindly into danger. Such action may even be deliberate to seek attention.
Inexperience
A child’s interpretation of a situation may be inaccurate and adults looking after small children should be aware not to expect too much of them.
Inadequate supervision
Children need constant supervision. Medicines, pills and toxic substances should be locked away and fires and stairs should be guarded.
General safety advice
Children should be supervised at all times
Around 10 children die as a result of falls each year - some from windows and balconies and the remainder mostly from stairs."

That should be enough - even for you  .

How old are the children who die in falls
I hate to be blunt but if you post a report like this as proof of possible death by accident its important to have full information

No stairs inside the apt so if maddie fell outside on stairs presumably she would have been seen by someone else,
same if she fell from  awindow. So no children die as a result of a fall inside an appt.