Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?

[G-Unit]

reply to red quote,

Why leave the door unlocked? The service the McCANNS provided has evidenced it was bad. If MW had an even better service then leaving the door unlocked would still result in the same? would windows still be jemmied? would there have been a different outcome?

• The parents didn't hear shutters /windows being jemmied
  The parents didn't see  or hear an abductor

because they were too far away and out of sight and earshot. Is this still being debated?

No matter how many official listening services are debated, the fact remains there wasn't one at the Ocean Club because it was deemed unsuitable. Consequently the safety of the McCann children rested with the McCann parents. If someone took their child the fact that the parents didn't make adequate provision was a contributing factor. Had they stayed in, used the night creche or hired a baby-sitter all their children would have been safe. If someone had broken in while the parents slept they wouldn't have contributed unless they had failed to secure the windows and doors. If someone had entered using a key while they slept Mark Warner would have been resposible for not safeguarding the spare keys.

[Eleanor]

No matter how many official listening services are debated, the fact remains there wasn't one at the Ocean Club because it was deemed unsuitable. Consequently the safety of the McCann children rested with the McCann parents. If someone took their child the fact that the parents didn't make adequate provision was a contributing factor. Had they stayed in, used the night creche or hired a baby-sitter all their children would have been safe. If someone had broken in while the parents slept they wouldn't have contributed unless they had failed to secure the windows and doors. If someone had entered using a key while they slept Mark Warner would have been resposible for not safeguarding the spare keys.

Good on ya.  Castigate them for the rest of their miserable lives.  And I hope that you feel really good about yourself.

[ShiningInLuz]

...
If someone had entered using a key while they slept Mark Warner would have been resposible for not safeguarding the spare keys.

The key system in use was mechanical keys that can be copied.  Hence a copy not under the control of MW could have existed before MW took over the OC.  I have no evidence to prove this happened, merely that it is a possibility.

I have been in other facilities in Luz where control is by an electronic key card.  This can be changed every time a customer departs, rendering the old key card useless.

To reach the same level of security, MW would need to replace the lock and key after each visit.

[pathfinder73]

reply to red quote,

Why leave the door unlocked? The service the McCANNS provided has evidenced it was bad. If MW had an even better service then leaving the door unlocked would still result in the same? would windows still be jemmied? would there have been a different outcome?

• The parents didn't hear shutters /windows being jemmied
  The parents didn't see  or hear an abductor

because they were too far away and out of sight and earshot. Is this still being debated?

Why indeed when Fiona said they had been using the key door to check. She was shocked to be told the patio door was unlocked just before Maddy disappeared. Now they've got witnesses before the fact knowing it was unlocked  &%+((£ Gerry said it changed because the key lock was loud and may wake the children but his first statement also said he used the same key door. Nothing could wake the twins that night.

"I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while, erm, and they didn't wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren't their parents, they didn't, they didn't wake up." (FP)

And Kate didn't demand they be tested  &%+((£

[G-Unit]

Why indeed when Fiona said they had been using the key door to check. She was shocked to be told the patio door was unlocked just before Maddy disappeared. Now they've got witnesses before the fact knowing it was unlocked  &%+((£ Gerry said it changed because the key lock was loud and may wake the children but his first statement also said he used the same key door. Nothing could wake the twins that night.

"I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while, erm, and they didn't wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren't their parents, they didn't, they didn't wake up." (FP)

And Kate didn't demand they be tested  &%+((£

Quite. Fiona was shocked to hear that the door was left open. The Wilkin's were surprised to hear the children were being left as they thought G5A was vulnerable.

They expressed surprise over this as the McCanns apartment was set in a location that appeared vulnerable. They were aware that the apartment was a corner building and with easy access from the road. The apartments were not very secure and entry could easily be gained.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm

[Alfred R Jones]

Good on ya.  Castigate them for the rest of their miserable lives.  And I hope that you feel really good about yourself.

Perhaps if we all agreed to change our sig lines to: "shame on the McCanns for being such neglectful parents, they deserve everything they get" we could move on from the neglect issue and it wouldn't be something we have to debate for the rest of all eternity.

[pathfinder73]

Perhaps if we all agreed to change our sig lines to: "shame on the McCanns for being such neglectful parents, they deserve everything they get" we could move on from the neglect issue and it wouldn't be something we have to debate for the rest of all eternity.

Neglect made everyone a suspect but you don't need to chase shadows to discover the truth.

[G-Unit]

Good on ya.  Castigate them for the rest of their miserable lives.  And I hope that you feel really good about yourself.

I haven't 'castigated' the McCanns. You are implying criticism where none exists. If the McCanns weren't responsible for keeping their children safe who was? No matter how many pages are written excusing the parent's actions it doesn't change the fact that their absence allowed the possibility of a child abduction.

[G-Unit]

Perhaps if we all agreed to change our sig lines to: "shame on the McCanns for being such neglectful parents, they deserve everything they get" we could move on from the neglect issue and it wouldn't be something we have to debate for the rest of all eternity.

Maybe some people should change their sigs to 'We know the parents were less than careful with their children's safety'. Others could then stop pointing out that fact every time someone attempts to excuse or explain their actions that week?

[Alfred R Jones]

I haven't 'castigated' the McCanns. You are implying criticism where none exists. If the McCanns weren't responsible for keeping their children safe who was? No matter how many pages are written excusing the parent's actions it doesn't change the fact that their absence allowed the possibility of a child abduction.

so even when it's been definitively determined that Madeleine was abducted you'll still be able to blame them - great news for you and fellow "sceptics", eh?

[Alfred R Jones]

Maybe some people should change their sigs to 'We know the parents were less than careful with their children's safety'. Others could then stop pointing out that fact every time someone attempts to excuse or explain their actions that week?

would that work do you think?  I'm willing to give it a try...

[G-Unit]

so even when it's been definitively determined that Madeleine was abducted you'll still be able to blame them - great news for you and fellow "sceptics", eh?

It's simple if you believe there was an abduction. It's such a terrible crime that the parent's behaviour pales into insignificance. I wonder how people would have viewed their behaviour if one of the children had got out of bed and stuck their fingers into an electricity socket, or got a knife and cut themselves, or taken an overdose? Abduction was not the only danger to consider when leaving children alone. 

[ShiningInLuz]

If Kate did not scream for Gerry from the rear patio was it because she thought the distance was too far?

So if one or more children had made it to the patio screaming, does this mean it was to far for the T9 to have heard?

[Alfred R Jones]

It's simple if you believe there was an abduction. It's such a terrible crime that the parent's behaviour pales into insignificance. I wonder how people would have viewed their behaviour if one of the children had got out of bed and stuck their fingers into an electricity socket, or got a knife and cut themselves, or taken an overdose? Abduction was not the only danger to consider when leaving children alone.

My opinion in such a circumstance would be the same.  What idiots, I would think,  but then I would remember that I wasn't 100% perfect either and I would keep my opinion to myself as I don't see how being eternally publicly judgmental about others' failings or stupidity helps anyone, and ends up actually seeming rather cruel in the circumstances. All IMO of course.

[faithlilly]

My opinion in such a circumstance would be the same.  What idiots, I would think,  but then I would remember that I wasn't 100% perfect either and I would keep my opinion to myself as I don't see how being eternally publicly judgmental about others' failings or stupidity helps anyone, and ends up actually seeming rather cruel in the circumstances. All IMO of course.

'I would keep my opinion to myself'