Prosecution evidence?

[Eleanor]

If she hadn't, I don't see how she could have been charged in the first place.

I would just like to see the context of the confession.  No chance of seeing the preceding interview, I don't suppose.

So why the need to beat her so badly after she had confessed?

The whole thing stinks.

[Carana]

I would just like to see the context of the confession.  No chance of seeing the proceeding interview, I don't suppose.

So why the need to beat her so badly after she had confessed?

The whole thing stinks.

Did the PJ assume that simply presenting an accidental death statement would be sufficient to present to the magistrate and close the investigation? After a so-called admission to an accidental death, the next obvious question is what happened to the body...

[Benice]

There's this in which she apparently did.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg103417#msg103417

However, if she'd been made to sign on the dotted line at the PJ, appearing before a magistrate would be a formality. From what I can gather, if indeed she had actually done so, it would have been read out to her and she'd have to have formally acknowledged it (or denied it).

Acknowledging it doesn't mean anything in my view as there's no way of knowing what potential carrots and sticks she'd faced during interrogation in terms of intimidation, threats or a prospect of not being prosecuted for murder if she agreed to an accidental death.

I find it perfectly plausible that she could have falsely confessed to an accidental death with a lesser sentence so that Leandro could continue to look after the kids for a few years and try to find Joana. At the time, the PJ didn't even have to present her with the evidence against her... they could just bluff. The alternative was the prospect of a 25-year sentence.

I have no trouble at all in believing that is what happened Carana.  The PJ tried the same with  Kate McCann IMO.

[Eleanor]

I have no trouble at all in believing that is what happened Carana.  The PJ tried the same with  Kate McCann IMO.

Yep.  The PJ offered Kate a lesser sentence for a confession of Accidental Death, so why not Leonor Cipriano?

The similarities are getting almost boring.

And perleeze  someone don't tell me deals are not allowed.  We've already done that one to death.

[John]

I would just like to see the context of the confession.  No chance of seeing the preceding interview, I don't suppose.

So why the need to beat her so badly after she had confessed?

The whole thing stinks.

For the umpteenth time they were attempting to ascertain where the poor child lay.

[Eleanor]

For the umpteenth time they were attempting to ascertain where the poor child lay.

So they beat her half senseless for nearly two days, and still didn't find out.  Come on, John, even you can't believe that.

They had their confession, apparently.  And IF Joana had been fed to the pigs as The PJ seem to believe, what exactly did they expect to find?

[John]

So they beat her half senseless for nearly two days, and still didn't find out.  Come on, John, even you can't believe that.

They had their confession, apparently.  And IF Joana had been fed to the pigs as The PJ seem to believe, what exactly did they expect to find?

If you take the time to read the initial confession by João and Leonor before judge Ana Soares you will learn that João said he buried the girl.

[Eleanor]

If you take the time to read the initial confession by João and Leonor before judge Ana Soares you will learn that João said he buried the girl.

What does Leonor say?  And why was Jaoa unable to locate the body not very long after?  Who thought up The Pig Pen Theory?

[Angelo222]

What does Leonor say?  And why was Jaoa unable to locate the body not very long after?  Who thought up The Pig Pen Theory?

Its all there in the article Carana posted for you Eleanor.  Jeeeeez

[Eleanor]

Its all there in the article Carana posted for you Eleanor.  Jeeeeez

Ambiguous.  You may take it as Gospel According to Guilt, but I don't.

And if you are finding my questioning so tedious why don't you just close my account.

[Benice]

For the umpteenth time they were attempting to ascertain where the poor child lay.

Don't you find it strange John that neither of them could say where the body was?  The only credible reason IMO is that they simply did not know - because she had been abducted.    Why go through terrible torture AFTER confessing - that makes no sense at all to me.   What did they have to gain that was worth being beaten half to death for once they had confessed she was dead ?    One would think that once confessions had been made - full co-operation with the PJ would have been far more to their advantage.

If  Joana was abducted - then all the torture in the world wouldn't change the fact that it would be impossible for them say where the body was  - simply because no body existed for them to dispose of.

I'm sure lots of 'suggestions' were put forward by the PJ as to where the body was - and were all agreed to at the time, just to stop the pain. 


 

[Benice]

What does Leonor say?  And why was Jaoa unable to locate the body not very long after? Who thought up The Pig Pen Theory?

The same people who thought up the Incest motive imo. .  The motive that was thrown out by the court.

[Eleanor]

Don't you find it strange John that neither of them could say where the body was?  The only credible reason IMO is that they simply did not know - because she had been abducted.    Why go through terrible torture AFTER confessing - that makes no sense at all to me.   What did they have to gain that was worth being beaten half to death for once they had confessed she was dead ?    One would think that once confessions had been made - full co-operation with the PJ would have been far more to their advantage.

If  Joana was abducted - then all the torture in the world wouldn't change the fact that it would be impossible for them say where the body was  - simply because no body existed for them to dispose of.

I'm sure lots of 'suggestions' were put forward by the PJ as to where the body was - and were all agreed to at the time, just to stop the pain.

This seems to be too difficult for John and Angelo to understand.

[Angelo222]

This seems to be too difficult for John and Angelo to understand.

You really don't get it do you.  Leonor initially freely confessed to having slapped Joana but she hit her head on the wall and died.  Enter a smart lawyer who convinced her to plead not guilty and say nothing.

Joao Cipriano admitted hiding the body but claimed he couldn't find the exact spot because it was dark.

And as we all know Leonor later attempted to blame Joao when she claimed he had taken the girl and tried to sell her to some Germans.  No wonder she was prosecuted for perjury, she has a new story every time she goes to court.

[Eleanor]

You really don't get it do you.  Leonor initially freely confessed to having slapped Joana but she hit her head on the wall and died.  Enter a smart lawyer who convinced her to plead not guilty and say nothing.

And you really don't get that a section of The PJ have a documented record for abuse and dirty tricks.

You simply don't know if she freely confessed without any coercion at all.  So stop treating me like a fool because I don't agree with you.
It comes to something when I can expect more verbal abuse from a moderator on a Miscarriage of Justice Forum than I get from common and garden posters.

PS.  Do you actually have any Miscarriages of Justice that you support?